Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:30 AM - Re: Fusible links (Finn Lassen)
2. 09:15 AM - Re: Fusible links (user9253)
3. 09:29 AM - Re: Re: Fusible links (ashleysc@broadstripe.net)
4. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Charlie England)
5. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Matthew S. Whiting)
6. 12:22 PM - Re: Twin Engine help Z-14 (meat_ball)
7. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Charlie England)
8. 12:48 PM - 2023 List of Contributors (LOC)... (Matt Dralle)
9. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Matthew S. Whiting)
10. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Charlie England)
11. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Finn Lassen)
12. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: Twin Engine help Z-14 (Sebastien)
13. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 06:04 PM - Re: Re: Fusible links (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Twin Engine help Z-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 07:19 PM - Re- Activation of account, Matronics Email Lists Forums - "esco" (stuart anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
I think it depends on how you terminate it. With crimp terminations even
1/2" would be long enough.
However, if you solder it to adjacent wires it'll have to be long enough
that solder has not wicked into the stretch of wire that will act as a
fuse. My opinion is that added solder to a wire would add to the current
needed to melt it. I could be wrong.
Finn
On 12/21/2023 10:24 PM, Christopher Cee Stone wrote:
> In re-reading the AeroElectric connection section on fusible links,
> you refer to 3" to 6" lengthfor the fusible section. Why can they
> not be, say 1" in length? Mostly concern for durabilityas they will
> need to be in an accessiblearea in the event they would need to be
> replaced.
>
> ...chris
> ANother RV
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
A fusible link gets hot when excessive current flows through it. Some of that
heat is conducted to the heavier wire at each end. A shorter fusible link will
not get as hot because its heat is more easily conducted to closer heavier
wire. I suppose that a shorter fusible link could made with finer wire. If the
fusible link becomes short enough and its wire fine enough, it would be called
a fuse. :-) Experiments could be done with fusible links of the desired length
using various wire sizes to find the right combination that would melt the
wire at the desired current.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512839#512839
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
Hi All;
I know this is going to create controversy, but I think fusible links are a crutch,
and an unreliable one at that. Why utilize fusible links, when fuses themselves,
are so inexpensive, more predictable, and easier to diagnose and change?
If you look at modern automobile production, you won't find a single fusible
link, but dozens of cheap, compact, and reliable automobile-type fuses.
Cheers! Stu.
----- Original Message -----
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2023 9:14:51 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fusible links
A fusible link gets hot when excessive current flows through it. Some of that
heat is conducted to the heavier wire at each end. A shorter fusible link will
not get as hot because its heat is more easily conducted to closer heavier
wire. I suppose that a shorter fusible link could made with finer wire. If the
fusible link becomes short enough and its wire fine enough, it would be called
a fuse. :-) Experiments could be done with fusible links of the desired length
using various wire sizes to find the right combination that would melt the
wire at the desired current.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512839#512839
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
If you dig a little deeper, you might find quite a few fusible links in
automotive use. The reason (place) to use them is typically when the only
likely fault is a catastrophic one, like a wire shorted to ground, Fuses do
have a fatigue life, which is for all practical purposes unlimited for a
link wire. And in certain situations, using link wire can actually reduce
mechanical connections. Particularly true for higher current situations
that would otherwise require a separate 'current limiter' type device, and
its mounting socket. Properly installed, links are going to be *more*
reliable than an equivalent fuse + holder + terminations. With solder/heat
shrink to the primary wire, they can add zero terminations to a wire run.
Charlie
On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 11:32=AFAM <ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrote:
>
> Hi All;
> I know this is going to create controversy, but I think fusible links are
> a crutch, and an unreliable one at that. Why utilize fusible links, when
> fuses themselves, are so inexpensive, more predictable, and easier to
> diagnose and change? If you look at modern automobile production, you won
't
> find a single fusible link, but dozens of cheap, compact, and reliable
> automobile-type fuses.
> Cheers! Stu.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2023 9:14:51 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fusible links
>
>
> A fusible link gets hot when excessive current flows through it. Some of
> that
> heat is conducted to the heavier wire at each end. A shorter fusible lin
k
> will
> not get as hot because its heat is more easily conducted to closer heavie
r
> wire. I suppose that a shorter fusible link could made with finer wire.
> If the
> fusible link becomes short enough and its wire fine enough, it would be
> called
> a fuse. :-) Experiments could be done with fusible links of the desired
> length
> using various wire sizes to find the right combination that would melt th
e
> wire at the desired current.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512839#512839
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine help Z-14 |
I appreciate the feedback. I know this may sound smug or offensive, but it see
no other way to say it. I haven't asked for the moon. I have come here to ask
for the help of the experts with my shortfalls which is the conceptualization.
Let's just say I have digested the diagrams and what each one of them offers. Let's
also say that I have considered what it is what I am looking for in an aircraft
and its systems. Let's further consider that I really want to go with
dual batteries and dual alternators and that I see no other reason to go with
anything other, except that I want to.
How would one incorporate the second engine starting system into the Z-14 diagram?
The alternators will be one 40 amp per engine. Is there anyone who can help
with this?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512843#512843
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
If you've ever watched the element in a glass fuse when it's hit by a
significant percentage of its rated current, you can often see it flex as
it heats, expands, and then cools. The element is relatively small/short,
its current handling is fairly close to its 'trip point', the ends are
fixed, and the element is typically straight, so when it heats and expands,
the extra length has to go somewhere. A link wire typically has a *lot*
more current handling ability than a fuse (catastrophic failures only) so
it won't heat/flex as much, and since we make them from stranded wire, if
it does flex a bit it's much less likely to fail from heat-induced fatigue.
Still needs to be supported properly, of course, just like any other wire.
On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 1:27=AFPM Matthew S. Whiting <m.whiting@front
ier.com>
wrote:
> Why would a metal fuse have a fatigue life and a wire not?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 22, 2023, at 12:47=AFPM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.c
om>
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> If you dig a little deeper, you might find quite a few fusible links in
> automotive use. The reason (place) to use them is typically when the only
> likely fault is a catastrophic one, like a wire shorted to ground, Fuses
do
> have a fatigue life, which is for all practical purposes unlimited for a
> link wire. And in certain situations, using link wire can actually reduce
> mechanical connections. Particularly true for higher current situations
> that would otherwise require a separate 'current limiter' type device, an
d
> its mounting socket. Properly installed, links are going to be *more*
> reliable than an equivalent fuse + holder + terminations. With solder/hea
t
> shrink to the primary wire, they can add zero terminations to a wire run.
>
> Charlie
>
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 11:32=AFAM <ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrote
:
>
>>
>> Hi All;
>> I know this is going to create controversy, but I think fusible links ar
e
>> a crutch, and an unreliable one at that. Why utilize fusible links, when
>> fuses themselves, are so inexpensive, more predictable, and easier to
>> diagnose and change? If you look at modern automobile production, you wo
n't
>> find a single fusible link, but dozens of cheap, compact, and reliable
>> automobile-type fuses.
>> Cheers! Stu.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2023 9:14:51 AM
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fusible links
>>
>>
>> A fusible link gets hot when excessive current flows through it. Some o
f
>> that
>> heat is conducted to the heavier wire at each end. A shorter fusible
>> link will
>> not get as hot because its heat is more easily conducted to closer
>> heavier
>> wire. I suppose that a shorter fusible link could made with finer wire.
>> If the
>> fusible link becomes short enough and its wire fine enough, it would be
>> called
>> a fuse. :-) Experiments could be done with fusible links of the desire
d
>> length
>> using various wire sizes to find the right combination that would melt
>> the
>> wire at the desired current.
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512839#512839
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> -
>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 8
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| Subject: | 2023 List of Contributors (LOC)... |
Dear Listers,
The 2023 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors.
It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous
Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
https://matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2023 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
https://matronics.com/loc
Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
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Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
Glass was mentioned because you can see it happen; not to say that they're
still used.
We can agree to disagree on the rest if you like...
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_c
ampaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_c
ampaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 3:07=AFPM Matthew S. Whiting <m.whiting@front
ier.com>
wrote:
> I haven=99t seen a glass fused used in an auto or aviation applicat
ion in
> probably 40 years. I am not aware of any fatigue issues with auto style
> blade fuses which is what most of use use in cars and airplanes.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 22, 2023, at 3:45=AFPM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.co
m> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> If you've ever watched the element in a glass fuse when it's hit by a
> significant percentage of its rated current, you can often see it flex as
> it heats, expands, and then cools. The element is relatively small/short,
> its current handling is fairly close to its 'trip point', the ends are
> fixed, and the element is typically straight, so when it heats and expand
s,
> the extra length has to go somewhere. A link wire typically has a *lot*
> more current handling ability than a fuse (catastrophic failures only) so
> it won't heat/flex as much, and since we make them from stranded wire, if
> it does flex a bit it's much less likely to fail from heat-induced fatigu
e.
> Still needs to be supported properly, of course, just like any other wire
.
>
> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 1:27=AFPM Matthew S. Whiting <m.whiting@fro
ntier.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Why would a metal fuse have a fatigue life and a wire not?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 12:47=AFPM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.
com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB
>> If you dig a little deeper, you might find quite a few fusible links in
>> automotive use. The reason (place) to use them is typically when the onl
y
>> likely fault is a catastrophic one, like a wire shorted to ground, Fuses
do
>> have a fatigue life, which is for all practical purposes unlimited for a
>> link wire. And in certain situations, using link wire can actually reduc
e
>> mechanical connections. Particularly true for higher current situations
>> that would otherwise require a separate 'current limiter' type device, a
nd
>> its mounting socket. Properly installed, links are going to be *more*
>> reliable than an equivalent fuse + holder + terminations. With solder/he
at
>> shrink to the primary wire, they can add zero terminations to a wire run
.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 11:32=AFAM <ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrot
e:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi All;
>>> I know this is going to create controversy, but I think fusible links
>>> are a crutch, and an unreliable one at that. Why utilize fusible links,
>>> when fuses themselves, are so inexpensive, more predictable, and easier
to
>>> diagnose and change? If you look at modern automobile production, you w
on't
>>> find a single fusible link, but dozens of cheap, compact, and reliable
>>> automobile-type fuses.
>>> Cheers! Stu.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2023 9:14:51 AM
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fusible links
>>>
>>>
>>> A fusible link gets hot when excessive current flows through it. Some
>>> of that
>>> heat is conducted to the heavier wire at each end. A shorter fusible
>>> link will
>>> not get as hot because its heat is more easily conducted to closer
>>> heavier
>>> wire. I suppose that a shorter fusible link could made with finer
>>> wire. If the
>>> fusible link becomes short enough and its wire fine enough, it would be
>>> called
>>> a fuse. :-) Experiments could be done with fusible links of the
>>> desired length
>>> using various wire sizes to find the right combination that would melt
>>> the
>>> wire at the desired current.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Joe Gores
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512839#512839
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -
>>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
Maybe not fatigue but definitely corrosion. Spent way too much time
troubleshooting my 1988 Chevy S10 only to find a blade fuse with
corroded terminals-- acted as a resistor.
And I stand corrected on my take on the length of a fusible link. I did
not consider the effect of adjacent thicker wires leading away heat.
Finn
On 12/22/2023 4:04 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
> I havent seen a glass fused used in an auto or aviation application
> in probably 40 years. I am not aware of any fatigue issues with auto
> style blade fuses which is what most of use use in cars and airplanes.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 3:45PM, Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you've ever watched the element in a glass fuse when it's hit by a
>> significant percentage of its rated current, you can often see it
>> flex as it heats, expands, and then cools. The element is relatively
>> small/short, its current handling is fairly close to its 'trip
>> point', the ends are fixed, and the element is typically straight, so
>> when it heats and expands, the extra length has to go somewhere. A
>> link wire typically has a *lot* more current handling abilitythan a
>> fuse (catastrophic failures only) so it won't heat/flex as much, and
>> since we make them from stranded wire, if it does flex a bit it's
>> much less likely to fail from heat-induced fatigue. Still needs to be
>> supported properly, of course, just like any other wire.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 1:27PM Matthew S. Whiting
>> <m.whiting@frontier.com> wrote:
>>
>> Why would a metal fuse have a fatigue life and a wire not?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Dec 22, 2023, at 12:47PM, Charlie England
>>> <ceengland7@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> If you dig a little deeper, you might find quite a few fusible
>>> links in automotive use. The reason (place) to use them is
>>> typically when the only likely fault is a catastrophic one, like
>>> a wire shorted to ground, Fuses do have a fatigue life, which is
>>> for all practical purposes unlimited for a link wire. And in
>>> certain situations, using link wire can actually reduce
>>> mechanical connections. Particularly true for higher current
>>> situations that would otherwise require a separate 'current
>>> limiter' type device, and its mounting socket. Properly
>>> installed, links are going to be *more* reliable than an
>>> equivalent fuse+ holder+ terminations. With solder/heat shrink
>>> to the primary wire, they can add zero terminations to a wire run.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 11:32AM <ashleysc@broadstripe.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> ashleysc@broadstripe.net
>>>
>>> Hi All;
>>> I know this is going to create controversy, but I think
>>> fusible links are a crutch, and an unreliable one at that.
>>> Why utilize fusible links, when fuses themselves, are so
>>> inexpensive, more predictable, and easier to diagnose and
>>> change? If you look at modern automobile production, you
>>> won't find a single fusible link, but dozens of cheap,
>>> compact, and reliable automobile-type fuses.
>>> Cheers! Stu.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2023 9:14:51 AM
>>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fusible links
>>>
>>> <fransew@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> A fusible link gets hot when excessive current flows through
>>> it. Some of that
>>> heat is conducted to the heavier wire at each end. A
>>> shorter fusible link will
>>> not get as hot because its heat is more easily conducted to
>>> closer heavier
>>> wire. I suppose that a shorter fusible link could made with
>>> finer wire. If the
>>> fusible link becomes short enough and its wire fine enough,
>>> it would be called
>>> a fuse. :-) Experiments could be done with fusible links
>>> of the desired length
>>> using various wire sizes to find the right combination that
>>> would melt the
>>> wire at the desired current.
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Joe Gores
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512839#512839
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> -
>>> Electric-List" rel="noreferrer"
>>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine help Z-14 |
So you're going to replace the Aux Alternator in Z-14 with a regular
alternator on a second engine and keep the main and aux batteries. Ok.
In that case the output of the aux battery contactor would then go to the
second engine starter contactor the same way the main battery contactor has
a 4awg wire going to the starter contactor in Z-14. Copy the starter
equipment coming off the main battery contactor and paste it into the aux
battery contactor between the aux battery contactor and the cross-feed
contactor. Your starter/cross-feed switch now needs 4 positions (Cross-feed
/ Off / Start Eng 1 / Start Eng 2) (On / Off / (On) / (On)) which I'm not
sure exists so maybe you want to replace it with 3 switches? Cross-feed (On
/ Off)/ Start Eng 1 ((On) / Off)/ Start Eng 2 ((On) / Off).
On Fri, Dec 22, 2023 at 12:24=AFPM meat_ball <arjayefem@fastmail.net>
wrote:
> arjayefem@fastmail.net>
>
> I appreciate the feedback. I know this may sound smug or offensive, but i
t
> see no other way to say it. I haven't asked for the moon. I have come
> here to ask for the help of the experts with my shortfalls which is the
> conceptualization.
>
> Let's just say I have digested the diagrams and what each one of them
> offers. Let's also say that I have considered what it is what I am lookin
g
> for in an aircraft and its systems. Let's further consider that I really
> want to go with dual batteries and dual alternators and that I see no oth
er
> reason to go with anything other, except that I want to.
>
> How would one incorporate the second engine starting system into the Z-14
> diagram? The alternators will be one 40 amp per engine. Is there anyone w
ho
> can help with this?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=512843#512843
>
>
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>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
At 11:29 AM 12/22/2023, you wrote:
>
>Hi All;
>I know this is going to create controversy, but I think fusible
>links are a crutch, and an unreliable one at that. Why utilize
>fusible links, when fuses themselves, are so inexpensive, more
>predictable, and easier to diagnose and change? If you look at
>modern automobile production, you won't find a single fusible link,
>but dozens of cheap, compact, and reliable automobile-type fuses.
>Cheers!
A fusible link is not a 'fuse'. It's not as finely
calibrated as fuses. It's in the same class of
fault protection as a ANL current limiter. See:
https://tinyurl.com/k7o3l3q
Note a 100A version of this device will carry
200A for about 12 seconds! This is typical
of all such devices in this class of protection.
Automobiles have been fitted with fusible links
as specially insulated WIRE for decades. The
auto parts stores carry replacement links . . .
not rated in amps but in AWG wire size. Modern
cars have migrated to miniature 'cartridge'
limiters such as the MIDI series from Littlefuse:
http://tinyurl.com/4av7s3ya
Note that a MIDI30 is rated to carry 200A
for 200mS; 60A for 8S and 40A for essentially
forever.
The purpose and application for such devices
is to protect extended BUS STRUCTURES from
battery excited, HARD FAULTS generally expected
to be many times the device's 'rating'.
This is why you do not see them sprinkled about
the Z-figures. I use them to extend a bus to
the crowbar circuit breaker, protect the alternator
B-lead from shorts in the diode array, protect
the feeder to an auxiliary bus which will support
fuses and or breakers to individual appliances.
Fusible link technology is widely exploited
in DC power systems of all stripes. Pre-assembled
fusible links as well as bulk wire (special
insulation) are offered by the likes of Mouser,
eBay, Amazon, virtually ALL auto parts stores,
etc.
https://tinyurl.com/yllq8uym
Don't conflate the words 'fuse' and 'fusible'.
Fuses are fusible but fusible links are not
fuses. I prefer them to ANL/MIDI solutions
for their simplicity . . . a piece of
specially insulated wire will mitigate
and contain the energies of a fusing event.
Can't beat them for cost, size, weight, labor,
etc.
But don't use them where a circuit breaker
or fuse is called for . . . that's a
different task altogether.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible links |
At 03:04 PM 12/22/2023, you wrote:
>I haven=99t seen a glass fused used in an auto
>or aviation application in probably 40 years. I
>am not aware of any fatigue issues with auto
>style blade fuses which is what most of use use in cars and airplanes.
Yeah, those critters were equally vulnerable to
thermal 'hammering' . . .
Recall the Lancair Accident analysis I published
on the website. Critical FUSES were thermally
'stressed' numerous times at levels which deformed
the metal without melting. These repeated events
caused the fuse melt-current to be depressed.
After enough events had transpired . . . COMBINED
with elevate ambient temperatures under the cowl,
the fuse finally opened up and killed the engine.
Recall our discussions here on the list about
the temperature vs. phase of solder. As the
temperature rises, there's a fairly narrow
point at which the material changes from
solid to plastic. Meaning that ever smaller
forces are exceed tensile strength thus
changing its shape. In the case of fuses, the
force might be vibration, acceleration due
to motion or just plain gravity.
The point is that excursions into plasticity,
no matter how deep and how long can cause the
material to take on a new shape. That means
a 5A fuse might now become a 4.99A fuse . . .
or 4.9 . . . or 4.7.
It all depends on duration, amplitude
and number of temperature excursion.
It matters not how fast these excursions
occur. They are accumulative whether over
mere minutes or months.
In the case of the Lancair IVP's demise,
a series of excursions took out
one and then a second fuse. An error in
architecture negated failure tolerance
and the engine quit.
Fuses are may be operated rather closely
to their ultimate melting point but
common practice dictates that for steady
state loads with no aberrations, the
device should not be loaded to greater
than 80% or so of rating. If the load
presents any startup or momentary surges
of current, then further de-rating is
called for.
Automobile fusing philosophy is a good
case in point. I've noted numerous instances
where the fuse seemed really big compared
to load . . . but the task is to protect
wire. An 'oversized' fuse represents no
hazard.
Fusible links are the ultimate example of
OVERSIZED fusing. The wire is protected
from catastrophic faults . . . but the
link itself isn't even breathing hard.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=======
=
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
========================
========
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Twin Engine help Z-14 |
>
>How would one incorporate the second engine starting system
>into the Z-14 diagram? The alternators will be one 40 amp per
>engine. Is there anyone who can help with this?
Z14 illustrates TWO, independently
energized electrical systems . . .whether
driven by two alternators on one engine or
two alternators on two engines. Z14 was
originally crafted for single engine with
one large and one smaller alternator . . .
could just as easily be two engines with
one large alternator each . . . or one
large and one small alternator each.
A feature in the form of a cross-feed contactor
allows for (1)tying both systems together for engine
cranking and (2) sharing energy between systems
in case of loss of a main alternator on one
engine.
Fabricate two, essentially identical systems.
One on each engine. Then tie them together
as the situation dictates.
In your case, you have four alternators. So the
value/need for any elaborate bus switching
for load shedding seems unlikely.
That's why I suggested that you accomplish
the detailed load analysis on an accessory-by-
accessory basis with identification of
loads that can be dispensed with under
conditions defined my your failure modes
effects analysis.
How much output can be expected from your
smaller alternators?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re- Activation of account, Matronics Email Lists Forums |
- "esco"
Aeroelectric List Moderator: request re-activation of my account.
It worked for a few days -maybe a week?- and now I can't log in, again.
Thank you!
dRon Willis
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: stuart anderson <stuart.td.anderson@gmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Returned Mail: Fwd: Activation of account, Matronics Email
Lists Forums - "esco"
Mr. Dralle: request re-activation of my account- I'm working on the
architecture for my RV-14A project. Username: esco
Thanks!
Ron Willis
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: stuart anderson <stuart.td.anderson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Activation of account, Matronics Email Lists Forums - "esco"
Mr. Dralle: following up on this.
Ron Willis
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: stuart anderson <stuart.td.anderson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Activation of account, Matronics Email Lists Forums - "esco"
Following up on AeroElectric List access request.
Ron Willis
--------------------
On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 7:19 AM stuart anderson <
stuart.td.anderson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr. Dralle: Is my account active?
> I've not received a second email to indicate it was activated, and I've
> tried to log in without success.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <dralle@matronics.com>
> Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 9:00 PM
> Subject: Welcome to Matronics Email Lists Forums
> To: <stuart.td.anderson@gmail.com>
>
>
> Welcome to the Matronics Email Lists
>
> Please keep this email for your records. Your account information is as
> follows:
>
> ----------------------------
> Username: esco
> Password: STuart@#2002
> ----------------------------
>
> Your account is currently inactive, the administrator of the board will
> need to activate it before you can log in. You will receive another email
> when this has occured.
>
> Please do not forget your password as it has been encrypted in our
> database and we cannot retrieve it for you. However, should you forget
your
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> Matronics Email List/Forum Administrator
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