Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:27 AM - Re: Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question (Werner Schneider)
2. 02:24 AM - Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question (user9253)
3. 03:09 AM - Re: Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question (Werner Schneider)
4. 04:06 AM - Re: Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question (Werner Schneider)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question (user9253)
6. 10:08 AM - Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:08 AM - 'Funky' fuses and other interesting adventures (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question |
Thanks a lot Joe for your thoughts,
if I connect the wire 1 at the starter contactor I would defy the idea
of Z101, that the aux alternator can feed the essential bus without
switching on the main contactor, so I rather would like to keep that as
in the original architecture.
The main alternator feed can be protected close to the starter contactor
here, as it would need a huge fuse when being close to the main
contactor (starter current).
Unfortunately due to CG reasons I need to have the battery at the rear
end I agree would be easier/more logical on the FW.....
Cheers Werner
On 24.01.2024 03:43, user9253 wrote:
>
> In case of an immanent forced landing or smoke in the cockpit, the pilot should
> have the ability to shut off all electrical power as close to the source as possible.
> To comply with that rule, the battery contactor and other relays should be located
> near the battery. The starter contactor may be located at the firewall.
> Z-101 was not intended for a rear mounted battery. And so I recommend connecting
> the 10AWG aux alternator wire that you have labeled "1" to the starter contactor
> just like the main alternator is with a fuselink. If you do that, then
> there will not be always-hot wires running from the back to the front.
> Alternators do NOT need to be protected against producing too much current.
> Alternators can not produce much more than they are rated for. Protection for
> alternator feeders should be located closer to the battery end, not at the alternator
end.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513130#513130
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question |
> if I connect the wire 1 at the starter contactor I would defy the idea
> of Z101, that the aux alternator can feed the essential bus without
> switching on the main contactor
That is not correct. If your wire #1 is connected to the starter contactor, then
the path is from Aux Alt to starter contactor to downstream side of battery
contactor to pink bridge rectifier diode to normal feed to brownout/AUX Bus.
You might have to reduce the main bus electrical load depending
on the capability of the aux alternator.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513132#513132
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question |
Hi Joe,
how could I doubt your advice :( (I just overlooked that path via the diode)
That is very elegant, as the Aux would source the whole system the wire
run would be short (and common to both alternators) (you would not use
the blade fuses instead a fusible link in front of the starter contactor
point?)
So there would be a bit a different logic:
- standard feed by main alternator to both buses
- in case main fails Aux takes over all buses (independent if battery
contactor is on or off (but should remain on to have stabilizing
battery in system), reducing load on main bus could keep load in limits
of Aux alternator
- in case both fail the alt feed switch would connect the
essential/engine bus directly to the bat.
Simple and elegant, I bow my head to you for that solution, thank you!!
Werner
On 24.01.2024 11:23, user9253 wrote:
>
>
>> if I connect the wire 1 at the starter contactor I would defy the idea
>> of Z101, that the aux alternator can feed the essential bus without
>> switching on the main contactor
> That is not correct. If your wire #1 is connected to the starter contactor,
then
> the path is from Aux Alt to starter contactor to downstream side of battery
> contactor to pink bridge rectifier diode to normal feed to brownout/AUX Bus.
> You might have to reduce the main bus electrical load depending
> on the capability of the aux alternator.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513132#513132
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question |
So it would look something like this, only long wire would be #3 but
could be disconnected via the relay high concentration on starter
contactor now of # of connection
On 24.01.2024 11:23, user9253 wrote:
>
>
>> if I connect the wire 1 at the starter contactor I would defy the idea
>> of Z101, that the aux alternator can feed the essential bus without
>> switching on the main contactor
> That is not correct. If your wire #1 is connected to the starter contac
tor, then
> the path is from Aux Alt to starter contactor to downstream side of batt
ery
> contactor to pink bridge rectifier diode to normal feed to brownout/AUX
Bus.
> You might have to reduce the main bus electrical load depending
> on the capability of the aux alternator.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513132#513132
>
>
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>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Z101B and battery in the rear wiring question |
Werner, some well respected people like Bob N. and Charlie E. prefer to use
fusible links instead of ANL fuses. Fusible links have advantages: light weight
and
no exposed terminals that could short out and less money. It is a matter of personal
choice.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513137#513137
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: OVM-14 MkIII development (update) |
Haven't been ignoring you guys . . . fun projects got
kinda diluted with holiday festivities and frivolities
along with a few home maintenance items that could
not wait . . .
But in the mean time:
I've been fiddling with the etched circuit for the
prototype OVM-14 upgrade . . . due to the very compact
ecb layout I was interested in exploring solder reflow
assembly processes using joint-by-joint application
of solder paste.
The experiments were frustrating. The consistency
and makeup of the solder 'paste' is critical. Samples
I had on hand proved problematic in that they were
reluctant to 'stick' to the pad until the component
was placed. Seems this stuff has a shelf life too.
Finally did conquer the process but while working
with these cute little boards, it occurred to me
that it was a bit late in my career life cycle
to be spooling up in new manufacturing processes and
inventorying new products!
To my way of thinking, the optimized assembly
configuration would lend itself to offering
bare boards or even kits in addition to limited
sales of completed assemblies while striving
for compact assembly.
Thought I give this a try:
The attached figure is a snapshot of the present
configuration OVM-14 ECB. It's not terribly
larger than the legacy CBOVMs. I've not used
this assembly technique in more years than I
can recall . . . first observed it in the
fabrication of my first solid state pocket
radio. A Regency TR1 that cost me a pretty
penny in newspaper route earnings about 1958!
Note the resistors stand on end soldered into
pads with very close spacing. This offers
a tighter layout opportunity with another
benefit: The upper end of each resistor can
be oriented such that it attaches to an
interesting 'test node' on the board. An
oscilloscope or voltmeter probe can be clipped
to the lead wire for performance evaluation
and/or troubleshooting.
What, you may ask, is that 'thing' hanging
off the end of the board? My short path
to low cost prototype boards is predicated
on a fixed 3.8 x 2.5 inch coupon. Hmmm . . .
what to do with that opportunity for a 'free'
ecb?
How about exploring a recently noticed LED
product that caters to night time drone
pilots? Red or green LEDs with built in
flashers. A bit slower than I'd like but
certainly bright enough. I've added a little
'parasite' board to the layout to proof an
idea for a precision low volts warning
annunciator with a very low parts count.
I'll publish drawings for the ECB
shortly with the notion of exploiting
any willing talents for proofing the
layout. I've got an order into Digikey
for thru-hole parts to assemble the prototypes
which should go VERY quickly.
This may not be the optimal route but I
think it's better than the rabbit hole
I dove into the first time. Let's see
what shakes out.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
Message 7
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| Subject: | 'Funky' fuses and other interesting adventures |
Shortly before the holidays we had a brief
thread concerning the relative merits of utilizing
automotive fuses of unknown source and equally
unknown qualifications.
We harkened to the admonitions from representatives
of Busssman, Littlefuse, etc. etc:
"NO . . . you can't have that . . .
you'll shoot your eye out!"
Oops . . . wrong movie . . .
"Those fuses do not come with the
assurances of performance control
and reliability offered by our
products . . . you're gonna set
your wires on fire!"
Okay, as we've discussed many times on this
forum over the years, the science of good
design requires a working knowledge
in properties of materials, management of energy
and refinement of process. Doesn't matter
if you're baking cheese souffle, building
a house . . . or wiring an airplane.
There's another bit of wisdom handed down to
us from history:
"I often say that when you can measure what you are
speaking about, and express it in numbers, you
know something about it; but when you cannot
measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers,
your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind."
---- Lord Kelvin ----
To be sure, a great deal of what is pushed down
on us these days is considerably lacking in
numbers!
Okay, let's consider how we can 'go get the
numbers'.
I've acquired a new tool for the mess-making
shop. Toward the goal of being able to test and
quantify performance on various components,
an accurately calibrated electronic load-bank is
of considerable value.
This critter will sink up to 250 watts with
max voltage of 100; max current of 50A. It features
a pulse generator that allows the load to be
modulated with excursions in both magnitude,
frequency and duration. I've not enjoyed this
capability since the last regulator I did for
Beech about a bazillion years ago.
It also has a scaled current sample port that
will drive my oscilloscope. This instrument will
be invaluable for evaluating a box of 'funky'
fuses.
I will suggest there are two experiments to be
designed and conducted. (1) compare interruption
characteristics of the funky fuses with some
name brand devices -and- their data sheets. (2)
craft an experiment that attempts to set a
wire on fire . . . or at least cause a level of
destruction that generates expensive repairs if
not risks to comfortable completions of flight.
Things are moving ahead with the test stand.
How would we set up the experiment for demise
of an 'inadequately' protected wire? Keep
in mind that my prodigal environmental chamber
has returned from a 20-year 'sabbatical' so our
experiment can include elevated environmental
temperature effects.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.
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