---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/01/26: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:39 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 06/30/26 (Judson) 2. 08:35 AM - Re: I think I'm back . . . (Paul Fisher) 3. 08:44 AM - Re: Starter spikes redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 10:08 AM - Re: I think I'm back . . . (esco) 5. 12:07 PM - DO-160 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 11:03 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 7. 11:23 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:27 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 06/30/26 From: Judson Bob, So gald you are back. I've missed you! On 01-Jul-26 12:31 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================= > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================= > > Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can also be found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version > of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 26-06-30&Archive=AeroElectric > > Text Version: > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 26-06-30&Archive=AeroElectric > > > =============================================== > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > =============================================== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > AeroElectric-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 06/30/26: 6 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 10:33 AM - I think I'm back . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) > 2. 10:58 AM - Re: I think I'm back . . . (Jim Hausch) > 3. 04:59 PM - Re: I think I'm back . . . (Eric Page) > 4. 05:48 PM - Re: I think I'm back . . . (Sebastien) > 5. 05:59 PM - Re: I think I'm back . . . (Eric Page) > 6. 07:53 PM - Re: I think I'm back . . . (user9253) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:33:05 AM PST US > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > Subject: AeroElectric-List: I think I'm back . . . > > I owe you guys an apology for my absence . . . Our > household experienced an extra ordinary constellation > of family matters that kinda took all the fun > out of my fun-stuff. I won't burden you all with > the soap opera. Suffice it to say that major issues > are mitigated and only a few minor issues remain. > > Dr. Dee is retired as of April 1. We've got a list > of fix-up projects around the house that's about > a mile long but they're all little things that > can be picked off one at a time. > > I've not been completely 'disconnected' from technical > matters. There are a number of things to share in due > course. > > I put the crowbar ovm project back on the > bench along with a sort-of next-generation > alternative. The original 'crow-bar' version > forced a breaker open served it's purpose > grandly for about 30 years! That technology > is still being manufactured on a constellation > of products for TC aircraft. > > The problem I perceive now is that our > favorite miniature circuit breaker has become > more expensive than the ov module itself! The > rational for the crowbar architecture was > based on the fact that the circuit breaker > already existed in virtually every TC > aircraft . . . the ov module was a stand-alone > add-on. > > I sincerely hope that the majority of our > builders are using fuse blocks . . . the legacy > circuit breaker panel is expensive, labor intensive, > and a poor use of panel space given that 99.9+ > percent of all breakers installed in airplanes > go to the bone-yard never having been called upon > to keep a wire from catching fire. > > So this begs the question, is there now a > practical way to corral an runaway alternator > by OPENING the field supply without deliberately > forcing a breaker open? I.e. can the breaker > be replaced with a fuse setting along side other > fusess in the block? The answer is yes. > We can discus that in detail in due course. > > I've also acquired some sodium ion cells to > put through their paces on the battery bench. > > You're probably all aware of Matt's move from > Oregon to Washington state which generated > an outage on the aeroelectric website and email > services. We've had some teething pains with > the move that had the 'Connection's business > activities in a tizzy. I think those issues > are now resolved. > > In the mean time, bring me up to date. Is the > List still intact if somewhat diminished? Anyone > have issues I could ponder? > > Thank you for your patience . . . > > > Bob . . . > > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======= > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > =============================== > > In the interest of creative evolution > for the-best-we-know-how-to-do based > on physics and repeatable experiment. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 10:58:06 AM PST US > From: Jim Hausch > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: I think I'm back . . . > > Hi Bob > > Great to see a message from you. Glad to hear the home honey-do list isn't > anything major. > > As this heat dome settles over the land and since you asked for thoughts on > projects.... I've always wondered how light of a portable air-conditioning > unit could be built if you ran it off its own, dedicated pad-mounted > alternator. > > The idea being that since this is an isolated system, could one make the > operating voltage much higher and conductors/motors smaller....perhaps even > make it Alternating Current? > > I do wonder what rpm limitations might be, since we'd want it to work at > idle speeds on the ground. > > I also wonder if some sort of super-cap or other power storage device could > be tapped for compressor starts. > > No immediate project at hand, just curiosity. > > -Jim > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2026, 12:37=AFPM Robert L. Nuckolls, III< nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> I owe you guys an apology for my absence . . . Our >> household experienced an extra ordinary constellation >> of family matters that kinda took all the fun >> out of my fun-stuff. I won't burden you all with >> the soap opera. Suffice it to say that major issues >> are mitigated and only a few minor issues remain. >> >> Dr. Dee is retired as of April 1. We've got a list >> of fix-up projects around the house that's about >> a mile long but they're all little things that >> can be picked off one at a time. >> >> I've not been completely 'disconnected' from technical >> matters. There are a number of things to share in due >> course. >> >> I put the crowbar ovm project back on the >> bench along with a sort-of next-generation >> alternative. The original 'crow-bar' version >> forced a breaker open served it's purpose >> grandly for about 30 years! That technology >> is still being manufactured on a constellation >> of products for TC aircraft. >> >> The problem I perceive now is that our >> favorite miniature circuit breaker has become >> more expensive than the ov module itself! The >> rational for the crowbar architecture was >> based on the fact that the circuit breaker >> already existed in virtually every TC >> aircraft . . . the ov module was a stand-alone >> add-on. >> >> I sincerely hope that the majority of our >> builders are using fuse blocks . . . the legacy >> circuit breaker panel is expensive, labor intensive, >> and a poor use of panel space given that 99.9+ >> percent of all breakers installed in airplanes >> go to the bone-yard never having been called upon >> to keep a wire from catching fire. >> >> So this begs the question, is there now a >> practical way to corral an runaway alternator >> by OPENING the field supply without deliberately >> forcing a breaker open? I.e. can the breaker >> be replaced with a fuse setting along side other >> fusess in the block? The answer is yes. >> We can discus that in detail in due course. >> >> I've also acquired some sodium ion cells to >> put through their paces on the battery bench. >> >> You're probably all aware of Matt's move from >> Oregon to Washington state which generated >> an outage on the aeroelectric website and email >> services. We've had some teething pains with >> the move that had the 'Connection's business >> activities in a tizzy. I think those issues >> are now resolved. >> >> In the mean time, bring me up to date. Is the >> List still intact if somewhat diminished? Anyone >> have issues I could ponder? >> >> Thank you for your patience . . . >> >> Bob . . . >> >> //// >> (o o) >> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o===== > = >> < Go ahead, make my day . . . > >> < show me where I'm wrong. > >> ====================== > ======== >> In the interest of creative evolution >> for the-best-we-know-how-to-do based >> on physics and repeatable experiment. >> > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:59:43 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: I think I'm back . . . > From: "Eric Page" > > > Bob! It's great to see you posting here again. I'm sure I speak for many here > when I say that I was worried about you. I'm very glad to see that you're back > in the saddle. > > Re the Matronics move, I was happy to learn that Matt and his bride are now my > neighbors; they're two doors up the street from me! Due to my work schedule and > general laziness, we have yet to meet face-to-face, but I look forward to fixing > that. The neighbor between us tells me that they're wonderful people. > > ----- > > It may interest you to look at a few threads that rolled by in your absence. I > very much hope that I haven't stepped on any toes... > > 1. I took the liberty of working on your OVM-14 Mk III design while you were away. > I drew a schematic and circuit board design, built some prototypes, tweaked > some resistor values experimentally and posted the results here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515351&sid=2c07cec97e78d88c2157d6d0d419c306#513215 > > 2. The topic of low voltage monitoring came up at some point and I recalled seeing > one of your schematics that addressed the problem. I dug it up from your > archive, turned it into a circuit board, tested it and posted that as well: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16783530&sid=2c07cec97e78d88c2157d6d0d419c306 > > 3. I adapted the OVM-14 Mk III design to suit my specific application (controlling > the 3-phase stator feed from a Rotax 9-series engine). I added some features > that I wanted and documented the results here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16783524&sid=2c07cec97e78d88c2157d6d0d419c306 > > ----- > > I have fully built prototypes for the OVM-14 Mk III and for my adaptation of it. > I don't have any of the Low Voltage Monitor prototypes left, but I do have > a bare circuit board available. If you'd like one or all of these for your own > testing, just let me know; I'd be happy to provide them. > > Cheers, and welcome back! > > Eric > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=517202#517202 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:48:22 PM PST US > From: Sebastien > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: I think I'm back . . . > > Hello Bob, good to read you again. I've been busy with other priorities > myself but always happy to keep up to date on the latest state of the art > for amateur built electrical systems. > > One topic of interest, last year on AOPA's Ask the A&Ps podcast I > questioned the validity of needing to have avionics off for startup because > of "voltage spikes" and all three experts were sincere in their insistence > that these spikes could damage avionics despite thousands of recorded > starts never showing a single "spike". They said the one second sample rate > was too long an interval to record the spike. Has anyone recorded an engine > startup with oscilloscope quality voltage data? Do we know what these > starts in fact look like voltage wise? > > Regards, > > Sebastien > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 10:37=AFAM Robert L. Nuckolls, III< nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >> I owe you guys an apology for my absence . . . Our >> household experienced an extra ordinary constellation >> of family matters that kinda took all the fun >> out of my fun-stuff. I won't burden you all with >> the soap opera. Suffice it to say that major issues >> are mitigated and only a few minor issues remain. >> >> Dr. Dee is retired as of April 1. We've got a list >> of fix-up projects around the house that's about >> a mile long but they're all little things that >> can be picked off one at a time. >> >> I've not been completely 'disconnected' from technical >> matters. There are a number of things to share in due >> course. >> >> I put the crowbar ovm project back on the >> bench along with a sort-of next-generation >> alternative. The original 'crow-bar' version >> forced a breaker open served it's purpose >> grandly for about 30 years! That technology >> is still being manufactured on a constellation >> of products for TC aircraft. >> >> The problem I perceive now is that our >> favorite miniature circuit breaker has become >> more expensive than the ov module itself! The >> rational for the crowbar architecture was >> based on the fact that the circuit breaker >> already existed in virtually every TC >> aircraft . . . the ov module was a stand-alone >> add-on. >> >> I sincerely hope that the majority of our >> builders are using fuse blocks . . . the legacy >> circuit breaker panel is expensive, labor intensive, >> and a poor use of panel space given that 99.9+ >> percent of all breakers installed in airplanes >> go to the bone-yard never having been called upon >> to keep a wire from catching fire. >> >> So this begs the question, is there now a >> practical way to corral an runaway alternator >> by OPENING the field supply without deliberately >> forcing a breaker open? I.e. can the breaker >> be replaced with a fuse setting along side other >> fusess in the block? The answer is yes. >> We can discus that in detail in due course. >> >> I've also acquired some sodium ion cells to >> put through their paces on the battery bench. >> >> You're probably all aware of Matt's move from >> Oregon to Washington state which generated >> an outage on the aeroelectric website and email >> services. We've had some teething pains with >> the move that had the 'Connection's business >> activities in a tizzy. I think those issues >> are now resolved. >> >> In the mean time, bring me up to date. Is the >> List still intact if somewhat diminished? Anyone >> have issues I could ponder? >> >> Thank you for your patience . . . >> >> Bob . . . >> >> //// >> (o o) >> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o===== > = >> < Go ahead, make my day . . . > >> < show me where I'm wrong. > >> ====================== > ======== >> In the interest of creative evolution >> for the-best-we-know-how-to-do based >> on physics and repeatable experiment. >> > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 05:59:34 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: I think I'm back . . . > From: "Eric Page" > > > cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: >> Has anyone recorded an engine startup with oscilloscopequality voltage data? > Do we know what these starts in fact look like voltage wise? > > I haven't done so in an airplane, but I did sample an engine start in my car using > a high-sample-rate data acquisition module. There were no spikes of any kind. > Just the voltage dip you would expect during cranking, then a small rise > when the alternator went to work. The car was a 4-cylinder 1998 Honda Accord. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=517204#517204 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_start_151.png > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:53:13 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: I think I'm back . . . > From: "user9253" > > > Welcome back Bob. Like others, I suspected that health issues kept you away. > > It is great to hear that you are alright. > As for an alternative to crowbar over voltage protection, you might want to talk > > to Brian Decker from Georgetown Texas. He is very knowledgeable about > alternator construction and repair. If you are interested, I could try to get > his > contact information. > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=517205#517205 > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:59 AM PST US From: Paul Fisher Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: I think I'm back . . . Hi Bob. The list has been extremely quiet the last few months. I'm glad to hear you've gotten things under control on the home front. I hope to hear more on your shop projects. Paul On Tue, Jun 30, 2026, 13:37 Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > I owe you guys an apology for my absence . . . Our > household experienced an extra ordinary constellation > of family matters that kinda took all the fun > out of my fun-stuff. I won't burden you all with > the soap opera. Suffice it to say that major issues > are mitigated and only a few minor issues remain. > > Dr. Dee is retired as of April 1. We've got a list > of fix-up projects around the house that's about > a mile long but they're all little things that > can be picked off one at a time. > > I've not been completely 'disconnected' from technical > matters. There are a number of things to share in due > course. > > I put the crowbar ovm project back on the > bench along with a sort-of next-generation > alternative. The original 'crow-bar' version > forced a breaker open served it's purpose > grandly for about 30 years! That technology > is still being manufactured on a constellation > of products for TC aircraft. > > The problem I perceive now is that our > favorite miniature circuit breaker has become > more expensive than the ov module itself! The > rational for the crowbar architecture was > based on the fact that the circuit breaker > already existed in virtually every TC > aircraft . . . the ov module was a stand-alone > add-on. > > I sincerely hope that the majority of our > builders are using fuse blocks . . . the legacy > circuit breaker panel is expensive, labor intensive, > and a poor use of panel space given that 99.9+ > percent of all breakers installed in airplanes > go to the bone-yard never having been called upon > to keep a wire from catching fire. > > So this begs the question, is there now a > practical way to corral an runaway alternator > by OPENING the field supply without deliberately > forcing a breaker open? I.e. can the breaker > be replaced with a fuse setting along side other > fusess in the block? The answer is yes. > We can discus that in detail in due course. > > I've also acquired some sodium ion cells to > put through their paces on the battery bench. > > You're probably all aware of Matt's move from > Oregon to Washington state which generated > an outage on the aeroelectric website and email > services. We've had some teething pains with > the move that had the 'Connection's business > activities in a tizzy. I think those issues > are now resolved. > > In the mean time, bring me up to date. Is the > List still intact if somewhat diminished? Anyone > have issues I could ponder? > > Thank you for your patience . . . > > Bob . . . > > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== > < Go ahead, make my day . . . > > < show me where I'm wrong. > > ================================ > > In the interest of creative evolution > for the-best-we-know-how-to-do based > on physics and repeatable experiment. > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Starter spikes redux > >cluros(at)gmail.com wrote: >Has anyone recorded an engine startup with oscilloscope >quality voltage data? Do we know what these starts in fact >look like voltage wise? Excellent question! Been there, done that, many times. Spent 45 years wrangling electrons in aircraft of all sizes from Rotax ultralights to Hawker 4000 . . . not to mention studies conducted on instrumented test benches. Startup 'spikes' simply do not exist. >Eric wrote: I haven't done so in an airplane, but I did sample an engine start >in my car using a high-sample-rate data acquisition module. >There were no spikes of any kind. Just the voltage dip you would >expect during cranking, then a small rise when the alternator >went to work. The car was a 4-cylinder 1998 Honda Accord. Bingo! The universe of 'common knowledge' in physics is badly contaminated with erroneous notions re-enforced by a dearth of data and exacerbated by random definitions of vocabulary amongst the debaters. First a definition: When qualifying an appliance for suitability to task in certified aircraft, one is obliged to conduct tests where the device under study is subjected to . . . SPIKES: These excursions from normal bus voltage are very low energy, short duration events (100 microseconds or so) but they can be 'alarmingly' large (40 volts in a 14v system). These events are invariably generated by the collapse of magnetic fields in inductors. Relay coils, solenoid valves, generator/alternator fields, etc. The fact that they are so short an generated by high resistance devices (low energy) makes them easy to mitigate with rudimentary techniques (catch diodes, transorbs, snubbing capacitors, etc.) One would THINK that the biggest electromagnetic device on the airplane charged with perhaps 200 amps of supply current would be a disaster in hiding poised to annihilate ship's delicate electronics. Doesn't happen. Motors of any style are NOT significant sources of spikes. Yes, they have lots of wires wound on magnetic cores but . . . when the supply voltage to a motor is interrupted, the motor is spinning and generating a counter-emf (voltage) that greatly reduces the differential voltage across the spreading contact of the controlling device. By the time the motor's magnetics have a chance to couple any significant energy back into the source, the contacts are sufficiently gapped to prevent propagation of mischief. My first job in GA was as a tech writer at Cessna's single-engine facility in Wichita circa 1965. Cessna's house brand of avionics were just beginning to include those new 'solid state' thingys in the audio and power supply sections while the remainder was still vacuum tubes. There was an 'airplane patch' east of the plant were delivery ready aircraft were parked. Sometimes a hundred new airplanes were tied down out there. They all had the best lead-acid batteries of the time (ugh!). To make matters worse, the state of charge could be anything. None of these airplanes had much time on them and they were short flights. These latest-and-greatest radios were often left ON when the airplane was parked. When a delivery pilot hopped in to fly it away, it was not uncommon for a radio to be inoperative after the engine was started. A breaker would pop and the radio had to be pulled for repairs before the airplane could be delivered. Aha! Must be 'spikes' from the starter whacking these delicate chunks of GERMANIUM buried in the bowels of the radio. This was the situation that birthed the AVIONICS MASTER SWITCH. Sho 'nuf. If that switch was OFF when the engine was started, the radio would still be working when the switch was turned ON. None of our electrical/avionics design staff had ANY experience with transistors yours truly included. In fact, Cessna hired a Wichita University EE professor to conduct a several weeks seminar on 'industrial applications of transistors'. I got to take the course. Didn't learn squat about the physics that would explain the radio failures. In years since, we came to understand that the rather delicate, germanium power transistors of the time . . . while 'rated' for 30v max applied voltage . . . were NOT being killed by an over voltage event generated by starters. It was LOW VOLTAGE condition caused by cranking the engine with a soggy battery. Power supply transistors would come out of saturation and go into 'second breakdown' (melt). Our lack of understanding generated (1) a band-aid Master Switch and (2) launched the myth that starters were radio killers. In years since, I've designed dozens of solid state appliances for aircraft where NONE had to hide from starters behind any sort of 'spike wall'. Batteries are much improved as are the electronics. We know how to make transistors sit in the bleachers and taunt the ship's electro-gremlins. Significant 'spikes' simply do not exist in vehicular DC power systems. Now, surges and over voltage (alternator runaway) are HIGH energy conditions also addressed with application of stone-simple design techniques and modern components. That's another topic. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution for the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and repeatable experiment. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: I think I'm back . . . From: "esco" Bob: Welcome back, glad to hear you & Dr. Dee are ok! Missed you mightily; I've have mined the list for your input on many topics. Thank you for all you've shared-- you make us better and safer. Ron Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=517209#517209 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: DO-160 At 07:47 PM 6/30/2026, you wrote: >One topic of interest, last year on AOPA's Ask the A&Ps podcast I questioned >the validity of needing to have avionics off for startup because of >"voltage spikes" and all three experts were sincere in their insistence >that these spikes could damage avionics despite thousands of recorded >starts never showing a single "spike". They said the one second sample >rate was too long an interval to record the spike. Yeeaahh but . . . True, the sample rate for panel mounted data gathering is indeed too slow to to quantify any 'spike' . . . but they failed to consider the what we've learned over the past 50 or 60 years. After my earlier post this morning I went to the archives to refresh (and correct) my recollections: Here's an article I wrote a few years back that speaks to contemporary performance protocols and definitions of various stimuli: Your browser may balk at downloading this from an 'insecure' site but be aware that Matt decided not to spend buckets of cash for the certification that pronounces his servers 'golden'. Go ahead and hit the 'download anyhow' button. https://tinyurl.com/DO-160Story This is a compendium of tests I was asked to conduct on every device I was offering to the TC aircraft industry. I mis-spoke about the nature of the inductive field collapse spike. The unloaded 'spike' intensity was 300 volts for 100 MICROseconds delivered through a 50 ohm resistor. A stupidly easy test to pass. We built a fixture to generate this stimulus and was chagrined to find that including a little capacitor across the supply line quashes the stress. Always included the capacitor and never ran the test again. The high energy events were based on worst case stresses generated by runaway alternator or generator where some allowances were made for response times typical of overvoltage protection schemes of the time. These SURGE values for the 14v system were 20 v for 1 second, 40v for 100 MILIseconds. What is missing from this well crafted series of tests is any stimulus that one might identify as a starter-generated 'spike'. What DO-160 DOES test for is (C) Interruptions. This was exactly the stress that was killing Cessna's pride-n-joy, NavCom 300's right off the production line. NOT a problem with the airplanes. The problem was with the radio design for not proving that various kinds of missing or low voltage was deleterious to their product. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ In the interest of creative evolution for the-best-we-know-how-to-do based on physics and repeatable experiment. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:53 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. 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Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * AeroElectric-List.FAQ - Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:51 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.