---------------------------------------------------------- Allegro-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/23/11: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:33 AM - Re: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 (Brian Carpenter) 2. 05:03 AM - Re: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 (Hugh McKay) 3. 08:35 AM - Re: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 (aerosiam) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:33:23 AM PST US From: Brian Carpenter Subject: Re: Allegro-List: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 Hugh, As I understand it, the proposed, guessed at max weight for LSA was to be 1 232. The Allegro 2000 being one of the first LSA to be approved used this w eight even though 1320 became the final weight limit. If you look around yo u will see others that use the 1232. I believe that the 1232 limit is also a weight limit that was used in some European countries for their version o f a LSA. The 2007 is a whole new airplane and the 1320 was adopted. Was you r 04 made before the LSA program was started?? The ruling came out in the F ederal Register July 27, 2004 Or I may be all wrong!!!! Anyway , the point seems mute to me unless you have the extra wing tanks fo r the extra 10 gals of fuel . With a 22 lb baggage limit and 14 gals of fue l, I find it hard to find a pilot / passenger that can GET IN the airplane that will exceed the 1232 limit. Brian --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Hugh McKay wrote: From: Hugh McKay Subject: Allegro-List: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 =0A=0AI fly an Allegro 2000 ELSA S/N 04-713 with a Rotax 912 UL engine. The MTOW =0Afor my airplane is supposedly 1232 lbs. An Allegro 2007 with a Rot ax 912 UL is =0Aessentially the same airplane, with the same load factors, but with some minor =0Aairframe changes such as a little more dihedral in t he wing and a slight =0Areshaping of the rear section of the fuselage and r aising the tail slightly =0Ahigher off the ground, yet the MTOW for the 200 7 is 1320 lbs.- My question =0Ais why does the model 2007 have this allow able increase of 88 lbs. over the =0Amodel 2000? Why will my model 2000 air frame supposedly not safely carry this =0Aadditional 88 lbs?=0A-=0AHugh G . =0AMcKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North =0ANC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax =0A704-483-5466 email =0Ahgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:05 AM PST US From: "Hugh McKay" Subject: Re: Allegro-List: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 Brian, My Allegro 2000 has S/N 04-713. The order was placed in November 2004, and it was delivered to me in March 2005. I do have the extra wing tanks which carry the extra 10 gallons of fuel (60 lbs.). Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com From: Brian Carpenter Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2011 5:30 AM Subject: Re: Allegro-List: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 Hugh, As I understand it, the proposed, guessed at max weight for LSA was to be 1232. The Allegro 2000 being one of the first LSA to be approved used this weight even though 1320 became the final weight limit. If you look around you will see others that use the 1232. I believe that the 1232 limit is also a weight limit that was used in some European countries for their version of a LSA. The 2007 is a whole new airplane and the 1320 was adopted. Was your 04 made before the LSA program was started?? The ruling came out in the Federal Register July 27, 2004 Or I may be all wrong!!!! Anyway , the point seems mute to me unless you have the extra wing tanks for the extra 10 gals of fuel . With a 22 lb baggage limit and 14 gals of fuel, I find it hard to find a pilot / passenger that can GET IN the airplane that will exceed the 1232 limit. Brian --- On Wed, 6/22/11, Hugh McKay wrote: From: Hugh McKay Subject: Allegro-List: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 To: allegro-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 8:09 PM I fly an Allegro 2000 ELSA S/N 04-713 with a Rotax 912 UL engine. The MTOW for my airplane is supposedly 1232 lbs. An Allegro 2007 with a Rotax 912 UL is essentially the same airplane, with the same load factors, but with some minor airframe changes such as a little more dihedral in the wing and a slight reshaping of the rear section of the fuselage and raising the tail slightly higher off the ground, yet the MTOW for the 2007 is 1320 lbs. My question is why does the model 2007 have this allowable increase of 88 lbs. over the model 2000? Why will my model 2000 airframe supposedly not safely carry this additional 88 lbs? Hugh G. McKay III, P.E. Senior Consultant Worldwide Engineering Inc. 4090 North NC Hwy. 16 Denver, NC 28037 Ph. 704-661-8271 Fax 704-483-5466 email hgmckay@bellsouth.net http://www.wwegeo.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:24 AM PST US Subject: Allegro-List: Re: MTOW of the Allegro 2000 vs. the Allegro 2007 From: "aerosiam" I would be interested to hear Thom's expert view on this subject. I have no idea if this is correct but here is my take on it. The Allegro 2000 was designed to the 'standard' European normal / ultimate limits of 4.0 / 6.0 G at 520 kg or 1,144 lb . In the US, the normal category is 3.8 G 1,144 x 6.0 is 6,864 lb. If the weight is raised to 1,232, the normal / ultimate loads are reduced to 3.71 / 5.57 At a weight of 1,320 it is further reduced to 3.46 / 5.2. The US normal category of 3.8 G comes out at 1,204 lb for the Allegro (6,864 divided by 5.7 divided by 1.5) Presumably there are issues about operating an aircraft over the original design maximum weight, for example, undercarriage design loads. I saw photos of Fantasy doing a static test by loading sandbags onto an upside down wing which I think is normal practice. But I wonder just how reliable these static tests are in a dynamic environment. What about the bending loads on the tail boom at 1,320 lb in sudden vertical turbulence? I have the wing tanks and I have flown my Allegro 2000 on a long trip at about 1,250 lb. The extra weight seemed to make little difference and with the 100 hp engine, the take off and climb from our 1,500 ft grass strip is fine. I check the weather and stay in the green arc until I have burned off some gas. I would hesitate to operate an aircraft designed to 1,144 lb at 1,320 lb Is the 2007 model structurally stronger? Paul Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343897#343897 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message allegro-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Allegro-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/allegro-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/allegro-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.