---------------------------------------------------------- Aviation-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/16/11: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:12 AM - =?us-ascii?Q?Re=3A =5BAviatia=2Ero=5D vot? (releu3@seznam.cz) 2. 04:39 AM - Re: Re: [Aviatia.ro] vot (Robert Taylor) 3. 11:26 PM - =?us-ascii?Q?Re=3A =5BAviatia=2Ero=5D vot? (releu3@seznam.cz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:37 AM PST US From: releu3@seznam.cz Subject: Aviation-List: =?us-ascii?Q?Re=3A =5BAviatia=2Ero=5D vot? Chiar daca momentan nu ai nevoie, nici nu stii cand ai avea nevoie in viitor. In plus sunt unii, care au nevoie, dar nu stiu de acest sondaj. Si de ce sa nu ajutam sa se extinda afacerea aceea in RO? E clar, ca cei, ce au pornit sondajul, au plus Clujul, alaturi de alte destinatii cu potential maxim, pe care le iau in calcul in mod serios. ------------ P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ------------ Od: Tiberiu Iosub P=C5 edm=C4 t: [Aviatia.ro] vot Datum: 16.2.2011 08:17:53 --------------------------------------------- noi putem sa ne mobilizam sa-i taiem pe toti la vot dar cred ca este fair sa voteze doar cei care cred ca vor utiliza acea ruta altfel castigam doar un poll este doar o parere tiberiu -------------------------------------------------------------------- Aviatia.ro | Un vis real! (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aviatia;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNHBmdXRhBF9TAzk3MzU5N zE1BGdycElkAzI4NDEzOTIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NjE4BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGlt ZQMxMjk3NzYwNDg4) View All Topics (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aviatia/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcTUxamNiBF9T Azk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDEzOTIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NjE4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN hdHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyOTc3NjA0ODg-?xm=1&m=p&tidx=1) | Create New Topic (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aviatia/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmazhhbzIyBF9TAzk3 MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDEzOTIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NjE4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNudHB jBHN0aW1lAzEyOTc3NjA0ODg-) Messages 1. vot (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aviatia/message/28184;_ylc=X3oDMTJycHRhdmI xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDEzOTIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NjE4BG1zZ0lkAzI4MT g0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyOTc3NjA0ODg-) Posted by: "Radu Cioponea" radu_28@yahoo.com (mailto:radu_28@yahoo.com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20vot) radu_28 (http://profiles.yahoo.com/radu_28) Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:09 am (PST) Desi probabil 99% din cei de pe lista habar n-au ce-i Charleroi (un fel de orasul Motru), este al doilea aeroport din Belgia, cu specific integral low cost. Intr-o vreme era modelul de low cost airport de prin Europa. Invit pe oricine doreste sa voteze pt alegerea unei noi rute de la CRL, printre optiunile din lista gasindu-se Cluj. Votul e in josul paginii. Cu surprindere si placere constat ca daca romanii se mobilizeaza ii taie si pe polonezi si pe tot restul. Succes la vot: http://www.charleroi-airport.com/en/brussels-south-charleroi-airport /index.html (http://www.charleroi-airport.com/en/brussels-south-charleroi-airport/index .html) (scroll down pana la mesaj) R Back to top (#toc) Reply to sender (mailto:radu_28@yahoo.com?Subject=Re%3A%20vot)| Reply to group (mailto:aviatia@yahoogroups.com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20vot)| Reply via web post (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aviatia/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJydW1pNnNyBF9TAzk3 MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDEzOTIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NjE4BG1zZ0lkAzI4MTg0BHNlYwN kbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyOTc3NjA0ODg-?act=reply&messageNum=28184) Messages in this topic (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aviatia/message/28184;_ylc=X3oDMTM3YWVqcmc 4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDEzOTIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NjE4BG1zZ0lkAzI4MT g0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyOTc3NjA0ODgEdHBjSWQDMjgxODQ-) (1) 2. Amabasada SUA la Bucuresti: "Ministry of Transportation and the Prim (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aviatia/message/28185;_ylc=X3oDMTJyajMwNjd wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI4NDEzOTIEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDY1NjE4BG1zZ0lkAzI4MT g1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyOTc3NjA0ODg-) Posted by: "Aviatia .ro" aviatia_ro@yahoo.com (mailto:aviatia_ro@yahoo.com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Amabasada%20SUA%20la%20Bu curesti%3A%20%22Ministry%20of%20Transportation%20and%20the%20Prim) aviatia_ro (http://profiles.yahoo.com/aviatia_ro) Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:03 pm (PST) Domnul care semneaza documentul este: "Nicholas Frank Taubman, a United States businessman, politician, and ambassador. He served as the United States Ambassador to Romania2005=C2 08" 08BUCHAREST608, ROMANIA: BOEING SETS UP FOR A 1 BILLION DOLLAR DEAL Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin 08BUCHAREST608 2008-07-31 12:12 2011-02-09 21:09 SECRET//NOFORN Embassy Bucharest VZCZCXRO0346 OO RUEHFL RUEHKW RUEHLA RUEHROV DE RUEHBM #0608 2131203 ZNY SSSSS ZZH O 311203Z JUL 08 FM AMEMBASSY BUCHAREST TO RUCPDOC/DEPT OF COMMERCE WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 8548 INFO RUEHZL/EUROPEAN POLITICAL COLLECTIVE IMMEDIATE S E C R E T BUCHAREST 000608 SIPDIS STATE PLEASE PASS TO EUR/CE ASCHEIBE COMMERCE PLEASE PASS TO ITA KNAJDI E.O. 12958: DECL: 07/30/2018 TAGS: EAIR ECON PGOV RO SUBJECT: ROMANIA: BOEING SETS UP FOR A 1 BILLION DOLLAR DEAL REF: BUCHAREST 362 Classified By: DCM Jeri Guthrie-Corn for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d). =C2=B61. (C/NF) Summary. The Regional Boeing sales representative advised the Ambassador of plans for a multi-plane deal to sell new Boeing 737s to TAROM, the Romanian state owned airline. From Boeing's perspective the 737s fit naturally into TAROM's existing fleet structure and will support TAROM's future expansion plans. Operationally and strategically, Boeing believes that 737s are a better fit for TAROM than the competition. The deal could result in selling up to ten aircraft plus additional options to TAROM and Boeing is valuing the potential deal at close to USD 1 Billion. However, Boeing is worried about reports that EADS does not plan to compete fairly and that they may attempt to improperly influence key government officials to favor Airbus. =C2=B62. (S/NF) In a meeting on July 25th with the Ambassador, the regional Boeing representative, Monte Frazier, shared an allegation that EADS may have offered 3 percent of the sales price of any eventual Airbus purchase as bribes to officials in the Romanian Government. Frazier has been a frequent visitor to Bucharest over the last several months, and recently helped Romanian low-cost carrier Blue Air complete the purchase of several next generation 737 aircraft. He has built good contacts with the senior management of TAROM and believes that these managers are favorably inclined toward purchasing 737s from Boeing. However, these same TAROM managers preferred to wait until they were able to meet privately with senior Boeing executives outside of Romania at the Farnborough Air Show to report allegations that officials in the Ministry of Transportation and the Prime Minister's office have been offered bribes to force TAROM to buy new aircraft from EADS. =C2=B63. (SBU) The business rationale for TAROM to choose Boeing is considerable. reftel reported on TAROM's hodgepodge fleet mix, which includes B-737s, A-310s, A-318s, plus smaller regional turboprops. TAROM has subsequently signed a lease deal for four new 737 aircraft to fill immediate fleet needs. This will make 737s the predominant aircraft type in the fleet when the new leased planes enter service. According to Boeing, the range, size, and fuel efficiency of 737s make them the best possible aircraft for a regional carrier like TAROM. As an added benefit, the parts and flight crew certifications are standardized across the 737 line, making an exclusively 737 fleet cheaper and more flexible from an operations standpoint. TAROM is already able to offer a full suite of 737 repair services at their certified maintenance facility, which provides additional cost justifications for sticking with the 737 airframe. =C2=B64. (C/NF) Comment. Post has offered our support to Boeing and agreed to advocate for Boeing with the GOR, when it becomes appropriate, to ensure that Boeing's eventual bid is given all due consideration. Setting aside allegations of bribery, the political pressure on Romania to pick a European airframe is considerable. The fact that 4 leased Boeing planes have been added into the fleet, may actually lend weight to the argument that it is now Airbus's turn to garner a sale, despite the fact that a mixed fleet raises costs and creates operational difficulties for TAROM. Boeing seems prepared to make the argument that 737s make the most business sense for TAROM, and they are planning on an all-out effort to ensure their eventual success in concluding a sale. Post plans to assist Boeing to ensure that the eventual competition is fair and transparent. The fact that TAROM is wholly state-owned unfortunately injects politics into what should be a straightforward business decision. End Comment. 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________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:30 AM PST US From: "Robert Taylor" Subject: Re: Aviation-List: Re: [Aviatia.ro] vot Please remove me from your list. I didn't join, but I get your mail as spam. Please remove me from your list. I can't read the language! Thanks. Bob Taylor TigerCub N657RT From: releu3@seznam.cz Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:58 AM Subject: Aviation-List: Re: [Aviatia.ro] vot Chiar daca momentan nu ai nevoie, nici nu stii cand ai avea nevoie in viitor. In plus sunt unii, care au nevoie, dar nu stiu de acest sondaj. Si de ce sa nu ajutam sa se extinda afacerea aceea in RO? E clar, ca cei, ce au pornit sondajul, au plus Clujul, alaturi de alte destinatii cu potential maxim, pe care le iau in calcul in mod serios. ------------ P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ------------ Od: Tiberiu Iosub P=C5=99edm=C4=9Bt: [Aviatia.ro] vot Datum: 16.2.2011 08:17:53 --------------------------------------------- noi putem sa ne mobilizam sa-i taiem pe toti la vot dar cred ca este fair sa voteze doar cei care cred ca vor utiliza acea ruta altfel castigam doar un poll este doar o parere tiberiu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Aviatia.ro | Un vis real! View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1. vot Posted by: "Radu Cioponea" radu_28@yahoo.com radu_28 Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:09 am (PST) Desi probabil 99% din cei de pe lista habar n-au ce-i Charleroi (un fel de orasul Motru), este al doilea aeroport din Belgia, cu specific integral low cost. Intr-o vreme era modelul de low cost airport de prin Europa. Invit pe oricine doreste sa voteze pt alegerea unei noi rute de la CRL, printre optiunile din lista gasindu-se Cluj. Votul e in josul paginii. Cu surprindere si placere constat ca daca romanii se mobilizeaza ii taie si pe polonezi si pe tot restul. Succes la vot: http://www.charleroi-airport.com/en/brussels-south-charleroi-airport/inde x.html (scroll down pana la mesaj) R Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) 2. Amabasada SUA la Bucuresti: "Ministry of Transportation and the Prim Posted by: "Aviatia .ro" aviatia_ro@yahoo.com aviatia_ro Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:03 pm (PST) Domnul care semneaza documentul este: "Nicholas Frank Taubman, a United States businessman, politician, and ambassador. He served as the United States Ambassador to Romania2005=C2'08" 08BUCHAREST608, ROMANIA: BOEING SETS UP FOR A 1 BILLION DOLLAR DEAL Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin 08BUCHAREST608 2008-07-31 12:12 2011-02-09 21:09 SECRET//NOFORN Embassy Bucharest VZCZCXRO0346 OO RUEHFL RUEHKW RUEHLA RUEHROV DE RUEHBM #0608 2131203 ZNY SSSSS ZZH O 311203Z JUL 08 FM AMEMBASSY BUCHAREST TO RUCPDOC/DEPT OF COMMERCE WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 8548 INFO RUEHZL/EUROPEAN POLITICAL COLLECTIVE IMMEDIATE S E C R E T BUCHAREST 000608 SIPDIS STATE PLEASE PASS TO EUR/CE ASCHEIBE COMMERCE PLEASE PASS TO ITA KNAJDI E.O. 12958: DECL: 07/30/2018 TAGS: EAIR ECON PGOV RO SUBJECT: ROMANIA: BOEING SETS UP FOR A 1 BILLION DOLLAR DEAL REF: BUCHAREST 362 Classified By: DCM Jeri Guthrie-Corn for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d). =C2=B61. (C/NF) Summary. The Regional Boeing sales representative advised the Ambassador of plans for a multi-plane deal to sell new Boeing 737s to TAROM, the Romanian state owned airline. From Boeing's perspective the 737s fit naturally into TAROM's existing fleet structure and will support TAROM's future expansion plans. Operationally and strategically, Boeing believes that 737s are a better fit for TAROM than the competition. The deal could result in selling up to ten aircraft plus additional options to TAROM and Boeing is valuing the potential deal at close to USD 1 Billion. However, Boeing is worried about reports that EADS does not plan to compete fairly and that they may attempt to improperly influence key government officials to favor Airbus. =C2=B62. (S/NF) In a meeting on July 25th with the Ambassador, the regional Boeing representative, Monte Frazier, shared an allegation that EADS may have offered 3 percent of the sales price of any eventual Airbus purchase as bribes to officials in the Romanian Government. Frazier has been a frequent visitor to Bucharest over the last several months, and recently helped Romanian low-cost carrier Blue Air complete the purchase of several next generation 737 aircraft. He has built good contacts with the senior management of TAROM and believes that these managers are favorably inclined toward purchasing 737s from Boeing. However, these same TAROM managers preferred to wait until they were able to meet privately with senior Boeing executives outside of Romania at the Farnborough Air Show to report allegations that officials in the Ministry of Transportation and the Prime Minister's office have been offered bribes to force TAROM to buy new aircraft from EADS. =C2=B63. (SBU) The business rationale for TAROM to choose Boeing is considerable. reftel reported on TAROM's hodgepodge fleet mix, which includes B-737s, A-310s, A-318s, plus smaller regional turboprops. TAROM has subsequently signed a lease deal for four new 737 aircraft to fill immediate fleet needs. This will make 737s the predominant aircraft type in the fleet when the new leased planes enter service. According to Boeing, the range, size, and fuel efficiency of 737s make them the best possible aircraft for a regional carrier like TAROM. As an added benefit, the parts and flight crew certifications are standardized across the 737 line, making an exclusively 737 fleet cheaper and more flexible from an operations standpoint. TAROM is already able to offer a full suite of 737 repair services at their certified maintenance facility, which provides additional cost justifications for sticking with the 737 airframe. =C2=B64. (C/NF) Comment. Post has offered our support to Boeing and agreed to advocate for Boeing with the GOR, when it becomes appropriate, to ensure that Boeing's eventual bid is given all due consideration. Setting aside allegations of bribery, the political pressure on Romania to pick a European airframe is considerable. The fact that 4 leased Boeing planes have been added into the fleet, may actually lend weight to the argument that it is now Airbus's turn to garner a sale, despite the fact that a mixed fleet raises costs and creates operational difficulties for TAROM. Boeing seems prepared to make the argument that 737s make the most business sense for TAROM, and they are planning on an all-out effort to ensure their eventual success in concluding a sale. Post plans to assist Boeing to ensure that the eventual competition is fair and transparent. The fact that TAROM is wholly state-owned unfortunately injects politics into what should be a straightforward business decision. End Comment. TAUBMAN Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (1) Recent Activity a.. 2 New Members Visit Your Group New business? Get new customers. List your web site in Yahoo! Search. Y! Sports for TV Game Day Companion Live fantasy league & game stats on TV. Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. Create New Topic | Visit Your Group on the Web Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Aviatia.ro - Un vis real! -|- http://www.aviatia.ro/ \_____(===)_____/ TOTI PENTRU UNUL SI UNUL PENTRU TOTI ! 0 ! ! 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Cea mai competenta sursa independenta de informare in aviatie din Romania! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Publicare mesaj : aviatia@yahoogroups.com Inscriere pe lista : aviatia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Stergere de pe lista: aviatia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Individual | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 2 Visit Your Group Aviatia.ro - Un vis real! -|- http://www.aviatia.ro/ \_____(===)_____/ TOTI PENTRU UNUL SI UNUL PENTRU TOTI ! 0 ! ! 0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Cea mai competenta sursa independenta de informare in aviatie din Romania! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Publicare mesaj : aviatia@yahoogroups.com Inscriere pe lista : aviatia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Stergere de pe lista: aviatia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest =A2 Unsubscribe =A2 Terms of Use. __,_._,___ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:02 PM PST US From: releu3@seznam.cz Subject: Aviation-List: =?us-ascii?Q?Re=3A =5BAviatia=2Ero=5D vot? Doar ca noi am scazut ceva, iar polonezii au crescut mult. Cand am votat eu (imediat ce dl. Cioponea a postat indemnul) pt Cluj era vreo 53 sau 56 procente, dar pt polonezi vreo 18 procente.... ------------ P=C5=AFvodn=C3=AD zpr=C3=A1va ------------ Od: Daniel Adam P=C5 edm=C4 t: Re: [Aviatia.ro] vot Datum: 16.2.2011 22:36:26 --------------------------------------------- cam asa statea situatia cand am votat eu: Which routes are you interested in? votes: 25158 0.1% 0.1 % Nantes (France) 35 votes 0.4% 0.4 % Lisbonne (Portugal) 98 votes 0.1% 0.1 % B=C3=A9ziers (France) 13 votes 46.6% 46.6 % Cluj (Romania) 11721 votes 45.7% 45.7 % Rzeszow (Poland) 11495 votes 0.4% 0.4 % Berlin (Germany) 98 votes 6.6% 6.6 % Pula (Croatia) 1656 votes 0.2% 0.2 % Almeria (Spain) 42 votes Se pare ca ne-am mobilizat mai bine ca polonezii :)
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