---------------------------------------------------------- Aviation-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/08/11: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:14 AM - Re: Aviation-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 09/01/11 (Daniela Nedelschi) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:28 AM PST US From: Daniela Nedelschi Subject: Aviation-List: Re: Aviation-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 09/01/11 Hi, =0A=0Acould you please unsubscribe me from all matronics/aviation list newsletters? I really don't know how to do that, please help. =0A=0AReg ards, =0A=0ADaniela Nedelschi =0Anedelschi_daniela@yahoo.com=0A=0A=0A______ __________________________=0AFrom: Aviation-List Digest Server <aviation -list@matronics.com>=0ATo: Aviation-List Digest List <aviation-list-d igest@matronics.com>=0ASent: Friday, September 2, 2011 9:56 AM=0ASubject : Aviation-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 09/01/11=0A=0A*=0A=0A======= ===================0A- Online Version s of Today's List Digest Archive=0A============ ==============0A=0AToday's complete Aviation- List Digest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed belo w.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing w ith a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigatio n.- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Aviation-Lis t Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics. com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 11- 09-01&Archive=Aviation=0A=0AText Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.mat ronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 11-09-01&Archive=Aviation=0A=0A=0A========== ==============0A- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A================= =======0A=0A=0A- - - - - ---------------------------- ------------------------------=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - Aviation-List Digest Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Posted Thu 09/01/11: 4=0A- - - - - ----------------------------------------------------------=0A=0A=0AToday&# 39;s Message Index:=0A----------------------=0A=0A- - 1. 05:38 AM - [Av iatia.ro] =?us-ascii?Q?calare pe planoare in zbor?- (releu3@seznam.cz) =0A- - 2. 12:14 PM - Re: [Aviatia.ro] tarife aterizare- (Endre Lucian MOLNAR)=0A- - 3. 11:02 PM - Official Aviation-List FAQ (Frequently Ask ed Questions)- (Matt Dralle)=0A- - 4. 11:04 PM - Official Aviation-Li st Usage Guidelines- (Matt Dralle)=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________ _____- Message 1- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 0 5:38:04 AM PST US=0AFrom: releu3@seznam.cz=0ASubject: Aviation-List: [Aviat ia.ro] =?us-ascii?Q?calare pe planoare in zbor?=0A=0AInteresante poze... =0Ahttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265891/Hold-think-youre-=0Agoin g-Skydiver-grabs-gliders-tail-fin-fly-2-100-metres-100mph.html=0A=0A=0A____ ____________________________- Message 2- ______________________________ _______=0A=0A=0ATime: 12:14:59 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Endre Lucian MOLNAR& quot; <office@aeroclubuldrobeta.ro>=0ASubject: Aviation-List: RE: [Av iatia.ro] tarife aterizare=0A=0AAviatia e scumpa si asa trebuie sa ramana. =0A=0A=0A....parerea mea ;) Endy=0A=0A=0AP.S. Aviatia este ca o femeie frum oasa care cheltuie mult...=0A=0A=0AEndre Lucian MOLNAR=0A=0AIon Luca Caragi ale 39, cod 220019=0A=0ADrobeta Turnu Severin, Mehedinti=0A=0AROMANIA=0A=0A E-mail:- <mailto:office@aeroclubuldrobeta.ro> office@aeroclubuldrob eta.ro=0A=0A0040721323749=0A=0A0040741559759=0A=0AFax 0040252206042=0A=0AWe b:- <http://www.aeroclubuldrobeta.ro/> www.aeroclubuldrobeta.ro=0A =0A=0ADrobeta Aerodrome (picture preview at=0A<http://www.panoramio.com/ photo/57310160>=0Ahttp://www.panoramio.com/photo/57310160 )=0A=0APista : 740x68 m - inierbata=0A=0AOrientarea pistei : 10-28=0A=0ACoordonate geogra fice: N44 34 52.6 E22 51 15.7=0A=0AElevatie : 358 m=0A=0AFrecventa radio : 123.450 MHz=0A=0A=0AAerodromes and airports in Romania:=0A<http://maps.g oogle.com/maps/ms?msid=215004093629214258415.000492a72a8dcae3c=0A003f& ;msa=0&ll=44.629573,22.859802&spn=1.282245,2.90863>=0Ahttp ://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215004093629214258415.000492a72a8dcae3c0 =0A03f&msa=0&ll=44.629573,22.859802&spn=1.282245,2.90863 =0A=0A=0AAirshows I organized yet=0A=0A=0A<http://romanian-spotters.foru mer.ro/t5417-drobeta-fly-in-2011>=0Ahttp://romanian-spotters.forumer.ro/ t5417-drobeta-fly-in-2011=0A=0A=0A<http://romanian-spotters.forumer.ro/t 4482-a-fost-drobeta-fly-in-2010-si-cup=0Aa-dunarii-competitii-cu-aeronave-u lm>=0Ahttp://romanian-spotters.forumer.ro/t4482-a-fost-drobeta-fly-in-20 10-si-cupa=0A-dunarii-competitii-cu-aeronave-ulm=0A=0A=0A<http://romania n-spotters.forumer.ro/t1992-meeting-aviatic-la-drobeta-turnu-=0Aseverin-pe- 28-iunie-2009>=0Ahttp://romanian-spotters.forumer.ro/t1992-meeting-aviat ic-la-drobeta-turnu-s=0Aeverin-pe-28-iunie-2009=0A=0A=0AFrom: aviatia@yahoo groups.com [mailto:aviatia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of=0AGica Pascariu=0A Sent: 1 septembrie 2011 15:37=0ASubject: Re: [Aviatia.ro] tarife aterizare =0A=0A=0ANumai ce am aterizat la bacau dupa un Zbor la Sibiu LRSB,- unde am platit=0Acat la Tuzla, interesant nu?=0A=0A=0ASunt convins ca cel care a facut factura la Tuzla a facut o greseala.=0A=0A=0ARegards=0A=0A=0AGica Pa scariu=0A=0AFlight Design Romania=0A=0A=0AOn 01.09.2011, at 15:14, Luciano Mihaita <luciano.mihaita@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0APerfect de acord c u ce ai spus Matteo... atat timp cat sunt singurii din=0Azona cu o infrastr uctura isi pot permite sa stabileasca ce pret vor ei...=0Adaca ai observat omul i-a si spus "nu-ti convine pretul nostru? du-te si=0Aaterizeaza l a kogalniceanu"... scurt si clar, nu? :)))=0ASi atat timp cat nu o sa apara un concurent in zona este "ghischeftul"=0Alor... ia sa apar a un teren concurent... se mai duce cineva la Tuzla? poate=0Adam o idee unu i "intreprinzator" :)=0A=0A=0AOn 31.08.2011 23:46, Daniel MATEI w rote: =0A=0A=0AAaaaa, la Tuzla e parfum! Ieftin ca braga! Ia sa ai curiozit atea sa=0Aaterizezi pe Tulcea! Acolo chiar te lasa aia in c.g. Am zb acolo in=0Aprimavara, ca pasager intr-un avion de 4 locuri, si am ramas cu un dez gust=0Ateribil. La ULM au aceleasi tarife...=0A=0A=0ASi mie mi se par al na ibii de trase de par tarifele de operare in Ro. Dar,=0Aacuma pe bune, cand ai pe mana o mina de aur precum un aerodrom la mare=0A(unicul!) sau in buza Deltei (tot unic), n-ai exploata-o cat mai zdravan?=0ACine vrea plateste, cine nu, nu zb acolo.=0A=0A=0AChiar daca imi vine sa injur cand ma gandesc cat m-ar costa sa zb acolo, eu,=0Ain locul lor, as face la fel. LA FEL! E u n business, nu o opera=0Abinefacere.... Stiti vorba aia ca nu e nebun cine cere...=0A=0A=0ASi, da, normal ca vor sa se imbogateasca (cred ca deja sunt si nu de curand=0A:) ). Cine nu vrea? E vreunul caruia nu-i plac banii sau lucrurile minunate=0Acare se pot face cu ei si nu fara eii? De exemplu avi atia/zborul? =0A=0A=0ANici vorba sa iau apararea cuiva sau sa combat pe alt cineva ci doar arat ca=0Aasta e lumea in care traim si ca e cazul sa fim re alisti. Sa nu ne facem=0Avise... Aviatia e un lux. Nici mie nu-mi place tre aba asta cu tarifele=0Acrunte, mi se pare de-a dreptul exorbitant, dar, in ograda lui, fiecare face=0Ace vrea si, in plus, nu suntem obligati sa merge m acolo. Moca sau almost=0Amoca nu exista decat in socialism si, pana la ur ma, s-a ajuns la concluzia=0Aca, de fapt, era tot o tzeapa si ala :)=0A=0A =0AIn addendum, cred ca trebuie spus si aceea ca monopolul naste preturi=0A monstruoase si politici de piata discretionare. Daca ar fi aparut un=0Aaero drom, sa zicem, la Mangalia, care ar fi practicat preturi la 1/2 si=0Aincep ea concurenta reala, sa vezi cum se ieftinea si Tuzla. Dar, in=0Aconditiile in care ei sunt unicul frunizor de astfel de servicii, pe tot=0Alitoralul, are cineva impresia ca se sinchisesc de sporovaiala noastra=0Amarunta de a ici? Are cineva impresia ca ulm-ul lui Gica sau Gica insusi sau=0Amotodelta lui Matteo sau Matteo insusi, conteaza vreunul in politica asta?=0ANegativ , Sir!=0A=0A=0ASi, daca apare aerdromul concurent, ala eftin pt tot poporu& #39;, te poti trezi=0Aca Tuzla tripleaza tarifele si se declara aerodrom VI P si, pe fondul unor=0Aaere maneloide si/sau al unor necesitati reale de ex clusivism, discretie si=0Alux, barosanii plus guzganii vor zbura la Tuzla i ar noi, plebea, la=0Aconcurentza sau asa-zisa concurenta. Pana la urma, ace lasi patron, poate sa=0Atina Tuzla pt segmentul premium si sa mai faca o pi sta de 500x30 cu o baraca=0Ajumulita si 2 butoaie de benzina cu pompa manua la, pentru plebe. Dar nu cred=0Aca acest efort renteaza pt ca sunt destul d e putini ulemistii care zboara in=0Amod constant pe litoral. Cam cat de mul t contam/atarnam noi in ponderea=0Aveniturilor din taxe de operare pe orice aerodrom/aeroport adevarat? Cam=0Adeloc, adica (virgula) chiar deloc. Deci cine sa se chinuie cu noi si pt ce?=0A=0A=0AMai sunt si alte ratiuni: conc urenta lesnicioasa, pt noi, in domeniul unor=0Aoperatiuni de lucru aerian n u e bine vazuta si sunt destul de multi=0Aoperatori "grei" care f ac ce si cat pot ca sa ne tina departe (inclusiv=0Ageografic) de lumea si c lientela lor. Pe buna si corecta dreptate!=0A=0A=0APe Tuzla vezi, in mod cu rent, elicoptere de la Tiriac Air si diversi=0Asuper-mari si super-tari nab abi si aia nu se sinchisesc de maruntisul cu=0Acare noi ne facem un amarat de plin la zmeele noastre de 3 surcele. Are=0Acineva impresia cu un ULM, ch iar de costa 100k Euro, reprezinta ceva in=0Aaviatia de varf? Pt elitele ba nului gros chiar nu conteaza sumele de genul=0Aasta. Cine e nebun sa lase t arifele mai jos in conditiile in care, fratilor,=0ALUMEA PLATESTE?!=0A=0A =0AE trist pt noi, astia mici, dar perfect functional si justificat pt=0Aci rcumstantele si obiectivele respectivului business. Daca stam pe campuri, =0Ae ieftin. Daca vrem printre baietii aia jmekeri, costa, tati :) =0A=0A =0AAtata vreme cat nu exista concurenta, nu visati la povesti cu zane bune pt=0Aca nu exista decat- politica de pozitie exclusiva (nici macar domina nta nu=0Ase poate numi) si e normal sa fie asa. La fel as face, nu glumesc! =0A=0A=0ABafta,=0A=0AMatteo=0A=0A=0A- _____- =0A=0A=0AFrom: Luciano Mih aita- <mailto:luciano.mihaita@gmail.com>=0A<luciano.mihaita@gmai l.com>=0ASent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 4:25 PM=0ASubject: Re: [Aviati a.ro] tarife aterizare=0A=0A=0ANu, pe bune acum, atatia bani doar pentru o aterizare? da' ce-i face frate,=0Amananca iarba de pe pista? bauturi in cluse? ce consuma sau ce servicii=0Aprimeste ca sa justifice aceasta suma? =0AMulte aerodromuri private din tara nu percep nici o taxa, umul e bineven it=0Aca un oaspete... si chiar si acele aerodromuri au cheltuieli, paznici, =0Aintretinere etc...=0A=0A=0AOn 31.08.2011 12:39, mugurel toma wrote: =0A =0A=0AAs intreba urmatoarele:=0A=0A1 Daca ati consultat AIP RO anterior ref ore operare si tarife,=0A=0A2 Daca operarea a fost in afara programului de clarat si la sfarsit de=0Asaptamana cu stationare atunci cred ca suma este explicabila, depinde de nr=0Ade ore de stationare.=0A=0A3.Nu ati specificat daca ati avut pasager sau nu.=0A=0ADin cate imi aduc eu aminte, taxa de op erare este de 4 euro/tona dar nu mai=0Aputin de 8 si stationarea este de- 0.15 euro/tona/ora cu primele trei ore=0Agratuite.Deci in conditii normale aveti de platit 9 euro /operare(diferenta=0Ade 1 euro reprezinta serv de d ispecerat resp informarea meteo inchidere fpl=0Aetc) adica in jur de 40 RON intr-o zi normala pana la ora 16.00=0A=0AOricat am vrea sa fim de prieteno si nu putem sa tinem aerodromul deschis=0Agratis, dupa cum se stie este o s ocietate comerciala .=0A=0A4.Va rog deci sa detaliati pentru ce vi s-au cer ut acesti bani,dupa cum am=0Avazut primele reactii sunt ca noi suntem pusi pe jecmanit lumea, ori=0Arealitatea este exact opusa, operatorul Regional A ir Serives subventioneaza=0Aaerodromul.=0A=0A5.De asemeni imi aduc aminte c a ati operat in numeroase alte ocazii la noi=0Apresupun ca tarifele de oper are va erau cunoscute oricum.De la autorizare=0Ainscrierea in AIP Ro si pan a azi Regional Air Services nu a operat nici o=0Amodificare de tarif fiind cred singurul aerodrom care nu a majorat taxele de=0Aoperare in ultimii cin ci sase ani.=0A=0ACu respect=0A=0AMugurel TOMA=0A=0A=0AFrom: Pascariu Gica - <mailto:gica_pascariu@yahoo.com>=0A<gica_pascariu@yahoo.com> ;=0A<aviatia@yahoogroups.com>=0ASent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:38 AM=0ASubject: [Aviatia.ro] tarife aterizare=0A=0A=0ABuna ziua=0A=0A=0ASi p entru ca toata lumea sau ma rog aproape toata lumea zboara,amhotarat sa=0Af ac o iesire la mare aa ca m am dus- la Tuzla.=0A=0Aam aterizat cu ULM ul meu care nu cantareste mai mult de 470 kg,cand vine=0Aomu direct la mine si mi baga sub nas o hartie cu plata,cat credeti? 220 sau=0A240 ron,extraordi nar,deci atentie celor car vre o data vor sa mearga cu ulm=0Aul la Tuzla. =0A=0Anu vreau sa intru mai mult in subiect insa in costul =0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________- Message 3- _________________________________ ____=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:02:27 PM PST US=0AFrom: Matt Dralle <dralle@matron ics.com>=0ASubject: Aviation-List: Official Aviation-List FAQ (Frequentl y Asked Questions)=0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A=0APlease read over the Aviation -List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.- The=0Acomplete Aviation-Li st FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afollowing URL: =0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Aviation-List.FAQ.html=0A=0AThank y ou,=0A=0AMatt Dralle=0AMatronics Email List Administrator=0A=0A=0A[ Note: T his FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as=0A- - 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- - - - - - bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls=0A=0A- - - All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to =0A- - - sender.- The enclosure types listed above are relatively s afe from=0A- - - a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.=0A=0A- 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanne d for viruses prior to posting=0A- - - to the List.- This is done i n real time and will not slow down=0A- - - the process of posting the message !!=0A=0A=0A- Here are some rules for posting enclosures.- Fail ure to abide by these rules=0A=0A- could result in the removal of a subsc riber's email address from the Lists.=0A=0A- 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!!- Make sure that the files=0A- - - you are enclos ing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB).- Remember that there=0A- - - are still people checking they're email via dial up modem.- If yo u post=0A- - - 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these=0A- - - folks and the rest of us, for that matter. =0A=0A- 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!!- I don't want to see huge 30 00 x 2000=0A- - - pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each.- This is just =0A- - - unacceptable.- Use a program such as Photosho p to scale the picture=0A- - - down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the=0A- - - file size to less-than 200KB, prefe rably much less.=0A=0A- - - Microsoft has a really awesome utility av ailable for free that allows=0A- - - you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically =0A- - - scale it down and resave it. - This is a great utility - get it, use it!=0A- - - http://www.micr osoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx=0A- - - Look for the link "Image Resizer"=0A=0A- 3) !! This would seem to g o without saying, but I'll say it anyway.- Do not=0A- - - post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.=0A- - - And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even =0A- - - questionable. !!=0A=0A- 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1 MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members=0A- - - subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting=0A- - - to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!!- BE CAREFUL and =0A- - - BE COU RTEOUS!=0A=0A- Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where=0A- you can have your files and photos posted on the Matroni cs web server=0A- for long time viewing and availability.=0A=0A=0A******* ************=0A*** Digest Mode ***=0A*******************=0A=0A- Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.=0A - This digest will contain the same information that is currently appende d =0A- to the archive file.- It has all of the headers except for the & quot;From:"=0A- and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting =0A- of a line of underscores.=0A=0A- E ach day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be =0A- combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest emai l list.=0A=0A- To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form =0A- described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/subscr ibe=0A=0A- Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and dig est versions=0A- of the List at the same time.- This is perfectly accep table.=0A=0A- Now some caveats:=0A=0A- * Messages sent to "aviatio n-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard=0A- - email list. - In other words, you cannot post messages only to the=0A- - digest L ist.=0A=0A- * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the dige st List, you=0A- - will receive the realtime postings as well as the di gest at the end of=0A- - the day.=0A=0A- * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the=0A- - normal list associa ted with the digest.- Important Note:- Please change=0A- - the subj ect line to reflect the topic of your response!- Also, please =0A- - *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.=0A=0A=0A********* *******************=0A*** List Digest Browser ***=0A*********************** *****=0A=0A- An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in ei ther plain text=0A- or HTML format.- These archives contain the exact D igest that was posted to=0A- the Digest email list on the given day.- T he Digest Archives can be found=0A- at the following location: =0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/digest=0A=0A=0A******* **********************************=0A*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Mes sage Flag ***=0A*****************************************=0A=0A- At times , your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very=0A=0A - small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to a rchive=0A=0A- it.- In such a case, simply put the following phrase anyw here in the =0A- message:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - do not arc hive=0A=0A- Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List =0A- email distribution as normal.=0A=0A=0A**************** ******************************=0A***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes * ****=0A**********************************************=0A=0A- Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced=0A- email, m ailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly=0A- removed from the List.- If you discover that you are no longer receiving =0A- messages from the Aviation-List, go to the following Web page, and l ook=0A- for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.=0A =0A- The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel& quot; that =0A- automatically looks though the day's bounced email fo r addresses that =0A- caused problems due to common things like "use r is unknown", "mailbox =0A- full", etc.- If the Email W easel removes your email address from the =0A- Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://ww w.matronics.com/unsubscribed=0A=0A- If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel =0A- free to resubscribe to the Lis ts of your choice.=0A=0A=0A*******************************=0A*** List Membe r Information ***=0A*******************************=0A=0A- If you have no t done so already, please email me your phone numbers and =0A- paper mail address in the following format:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - smit h@somehost.com=0A- - - - - - - - Joe Smith=0A- - - - - - - - 123 Airport Lane=0A- - - - - - - - Towe r, CA 91234-1234=0A- - - - - - - - 098-765-1234 w=0A- - - - - - - - 123-456-7890 h=0A=0A- Please forward this inform ation to the following email address:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - requests@matronics.com=0A=0A- I have a file of such things, that I typica lly use to contact you when =0A- there are problems with your email addre ss.- The information will NOT =0A- be used for any other commercial pur pose.=0A=0A=0A****************************************=0A*** Realtime Web E mail List Browsing ***=0A****************************************=0A=0A- Recent messages posted to the Aviation-List are also made available on=0A - the Web for realtime browsing.- Seven days worth of back postings are =0A- available with this feature.- The messages can be sorted by Subjec t, =0A- Author, Date, or Message Thread.- The Realtime List Browser ind exes are =0A- updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45.- You can also reply to a message=0A=0A- or start a new message directly from the List B rowser Interface (coming soon).=0A- You do not have to be subscribed to t he given list to use the List=0A- Browser Interface in view-mode.=0A=0A - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aviatio n-list=0A=0A=0A*******************************************=0A*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***=0A******************************************* =0A=0A- A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Aviation-Li st content.=0A- content.- The Forums contain all of the same content av ailable via the email=0A=0A- distribution and found on the various archiv e viewing formats such as the =0A- List Browse, etc.- Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the =0A- respective email List, and po sts to the Email List will be cross posted to =0A- the web Forums.=0A=0A - You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. =0A- If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you=0A- will need to Register.- This is a simple process that takes onl y a few=0A- minutes.- A link to the Registration page can be found at t he top of the=0A- main web Forums page.- Note that registering on the F orum web site also=0A- enables you to send email posts to the Lists as we ll.- You will also need to=0A=0A- Subscribe to the respective Email Lis t as described above to receive the=0A- Email Distribution of the List, h owever.=0A=0A- The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at th e following URL:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://forums.matroni cs.com=0A=0A=0A*********************************=0A*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***=0A*********************************=0A=0AIn an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed =0Ainformation, Matro nics has installed a Wiki at:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://w iki.matronics.com=0A=0AThe Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to c ontain useful information =0Afor other users of the mailing lists and web s ite. Unlike an ordinary web page=0A=0Awhere the content needs to be submitt ed to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki =0Apermits the users to construct t heir own pages and have them visible immediately.=0A=0AWhile constructing p ages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be =0Acomfortable building pages.- In that case, simply prepare the text and any =0Aimages and emai l it to:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - wiki-support@matronics.com=0A =0AOne of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and constru ct =0Aa Wiki page for you.=0A=0AOften someone produces a particularly usefu l posting in email one one of the =0ALists that would be of general interes t. In that case Matronics may take that =0Apost and convert it into a Wiki page.=0A=0A=0A*********************=0A*** List Archives ***=0A************* ********=0A=0A- A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Aviation-List is=0A- available on line.- The archive file information i s available via the =0A- Web and FTP in a number of forms.- Each are br iefly described below:=0A=0A=0A- * Aviation-List.FAQ =0A=0A- - - - - - - Latest version of the Aviation-List Frequently Asked Question =0A- - - - - - - page (this document).=0A=0A- * Aviation-A rchive.digest.complete =0A=0A- - - - - - - Complete file with m ost of the email header info removed and =0A- - - - - - - pag e breaks inserted between messages.=0A=0A- * Aviation-Archive.digest.vol- ??- =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that =0A- - - - - - - can more easily ha ndled.=0A=0A- * Aviation-Archive.digest.complete.zip =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the Aviation-Archive.digest.complete file above, but =0A- - - - - - - in PKZIP format.- Use "binary" d ata transfer methods.=0A=0A- * Aviation-Archive.digest.complete.Z =0A=0A - - - - - - - Same as the Aviation-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in =0A- - - - - - - UNIX compress format.- Use "binary" data transfer methods.=0A=0A=0A- Download Via FTP=0A - ----------------=0A=0A- The archive file is available via anonymous F TP from ftp.matronics.com=0A- in the "/pub/Archives" directory. - It is updated daily and can be found in=0A- a number of formats as de scribed above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives=0A=0A=0A- Download Via Web=0A- ----------------=0A=0A- The archives are also available via a web listing.- These can be found=0A- toward the bottom of the follow ing web page:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics .com/archives=0A=0A=0A******************************************=0A*** Comp lete List Web Archive Browsing ***=0A************************************** ****=0A=0A- All messages posted to the Aviation-List are also available u sing the=0A- Email List Archive Browsing feature.- With this utility, a ll messages=0A- in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.c om/archive/archive-index.cgi?Aviation=0A=0A=0A***************************** ************=0A**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***=0A**************** *************************=0A=0A- You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine=0A- to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the=0A- List.- The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently=0A- available List archives. =0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/search =0A=0A=0A****************************=0A*** File and Photo Share ***=0A**** ************************=0A=0A- With the Matronics Email List File and Ph oto Share you can share pictures=0A- and other data with members of the L ist without having to forward a =0A- copy of it to everyone.- To share your Files and Photos, simply email =0A- them to:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - pictures@matronics.com=0A=0A- !! ==> Please in cluding the following information with each submission:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - 1) Email Lists that they are related to.=0A- - - - - - - - - 2) Your Full Name.=0A- - - - - - - - - 3) Your Email Address.=0A- - - - - - - - - 4) One line Subject description.=0A- - - - - - - - - 5) Mul ti-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.=0A- - - - - - - - - 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file=0A=0A- Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned=0A- for viruses.- Please also note that the process of making the files and =0A- photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I t ry to=0A- process them every few days.=0A=0A- Following the availabilit y of the new Photoshare, an email message will be=0A- sent to the Email L ists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new=0A- Share is availabl e and what the direct URL to it is.=0A=0A- For a current list of availabl e Photoshares, have a look at the Main=0A- Index Page:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/photoshare=0A=0A=0A******* *******************=0A*** List Archive CDROM ***=0A************************ **=0A=0A- A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that co ntains=0A- all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. - The archives=0A- for all of the Lists are included on the CD along wi th a freeware search=0A- engine written by a list member.- The CD is bu rned the day you order it=0A- and will contain archive received- up to the last minute.- They make =0A- great gifts!=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM=0A=0A=0A************* *********************=0A*** List Support Contributions ***=0A************** ********************=0A=0A- The Matronics Lists are run *completely* thro ugh the support of it members.=0A- You won't find any PopUpAds, flash ing Banner ads, or any other form of=0A- annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages=0A- associated with the Matroni cs Email Lists.- Every year during November=0A- I run a low-key, low-pr essure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,=0A- I ask Lis t members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they =0A- are c omfortable.=0A=0A- I will often offer free gifts with certain contributio n levels during the=0A- Fund Raiser to increase the participation.- The gifts are usually donated=0A- by companies that are themselves List memb ers.=0A=0A- Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists=0A- including the high-speed, business-class Internet connecti on, server=0A- system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially of fset the many=0A- many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the=0A- variety of services found here.=0A=0A- Generally Co ntributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary=0A- and n on-compulsory.- I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains=0A - value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.=0A =0A- Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've ju st =0A- subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've sett led in.=0A=0A- The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below.- There are=0A- a variety of payment methods including Visa and M asterCard, PayPal, and=0A- sending a personal check.=0A=0A- If you enjo y and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to=0A- supp ort its continued operation?=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http: //www.matronics.com/contributions=0A=0A- Thank you!=0A- Matt Dralle=0A - Email List Administrator=0A=0A=0A************************************** ****************************************=0A- - - - - - - - - - Aviation-List Usage Guidelines=0A********************************** ********************************************=0A=0AThe following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Aviation-List.=0AYou are encouraged to r ead it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.=0AFailure to use the A viation-List in the manner described below may result =0Ain the removal of the subscribers from the List.=0A=0A=0AAviation-List Policy Statement=0A=0A The purpose of the Aviation-List is to provide a forum of discussion for=0A things related to this particular discussion group.- The List's goals =0Aare to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver=0Ahig h-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie=0Aamong its members; and to support safe operation.- Reaching these goals =0Arequ ires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of =0Athe L ist.- To this end, the following guidelines have been established:=0A=0A =0A- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level.- Do not sub mit=0A- posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, l ong=0A- lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.=0A=0A- THINK carefully before you write.- Ask yourself if your post will be=0A- relevant to e veryone.- If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.=0A=0A- Rem ember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive=0A- tha t is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.- Try to be concise and=0A - terse in your posts.- Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and=0A- responses.=0A=0A- Keep your signature brief.- Please include your name, e mail address,=0A- aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location.- A short line=0A- about where you are in the building process is also nice .- Avoid=0A- bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unn ecessary=0A- space in the archive.=0A=0A- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is=0A- easily obtainable from other w idely available sources.- Consult the=0A- web page or FAQ first.=0A=0A- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of =0A- your response the same as that of the original post.- This makes i t=0A- easy to find threads in the archive.=0A=0A- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your=0A- response.- DO use lines fr om the original post to help "tune in" the=0A- reader to the to pic at hand, but be selective.- The impact that=0A- quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive =0A- can not be overstated! =0A=0A- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT =0A- then go ahead and reply to the List.- Be aware that clicking the =0A- "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily s end your=0A- response to the original poster.- You might have to active ly address=0A- your response with the original poster's email address .=0A=0A- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something =0A- to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal.- "Way to go!& quot;, "I=0A- agree", and "Congratulations" are all r esponses that are better sent=0A- to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.=0A=0A- When responding to others' posts, av oid the feeling that you need to=0A- comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly=0A- contribute something valuable.=0A=0A- Fe el free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone=0A- polite and respectful.- Don't make snide comments, personally attack=0A- o ther listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously=0A- controver sial issue.- This will only cause a pointless debate that=0A- will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.=0A=0A- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly =0A- subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable.- Posts by =0A- List members promoting their respective products or items for sale =0A- should be of a friendly, infor mal nature, and should not resemble =0A- a typical SPAM message.- The L ist isn't about commercialism, but =0A- is about sharing information and knowledge.- This applies to =0A- everyone, including those who prov ide products to the entire =0A- community.- Informal presentation and m oderation should be the =0A- operatives with respect to advertising on th e Lists.=0A=0A-------=0A=0A=0A[This is an automated posting.]=0A=0Ado not a rchive=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 4- ___________ __________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:04:26 PM PST US=0AFrom: Matt Dr alle <dralle@matronics.com>=0ASubject: Aviation-List: Official Aviati on-List Usage Guidelines=0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A=0APlease read over the Av iation-List Usage Guidelines below.- The complete=0AAviation-List FAQ inc luding these Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afollowing URL:=0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Aviation-List.FAQ.html=0A=0AThank you,=0A=0A Matt Dralle=0AMatronics Email List Administrator=0A=0A=0A****************** ************************************************************=0A- - - - - - - - - - Aviation-List Usage Guidelines=0A************** ****************************************************************=0A=0AThe f ollowing details the official Usage Guidelines for the Aviation-List.=0AYou are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.=0A Failure to use the Aviation-List in the manner described below may result =0Ain the removal of the subscribers from the List.=0A=0A=0AAviation-List P olicy Statement=0A=0AThe purpose of the Aviation-List is to provide a forum of discussion for=0Athings related to this particular discussion group.- The List's goals=0Aare to serve as an information resource to its memb ers; to deliver=0Ahigh-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie=0Aamong its members; and to support safe operation.- Reachin g these goals =0Arequires the participation and cooperation of each and eve ry member of =0Athe List.- To this end, the following guidelines have bee n established:=0A=0A=0A- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level.- Do not submit=0A- posts concerning computer viruses, urban lege nds, random humor, long=0A- lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.=0A =0A- THINK carefully before you write.- Ask yourself if your post will be =0A- relevant to everyone.- If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.=0A=0A- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive=0A- that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.- Try t o be concise and=0A- terse in your posts.- Avoid overly wordy and lengt hy posts and=0A- responses.=0A=0A- Keep your signature brief.- Please i nclude your name, email address,=0A- aircraft type/tail number, and geogr aphic location.- A short line=0A- about where you are in the building p rocess is also nice.- Avoid=0A- bulky signatures with character graphic s; they consume unnecessary=0A- space in the archive.=0A=0A- DON'T po st requests to the List for information when that info is=0A- easily obta inable from other widely available sources.- Consult the=0A- web page o r FAQ first.=0A=0A- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Sub ject:" line of=0A- your response the same as that of the original po st.- This makes it=0A- easy to find threads in the archive.=0A=0A- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your=0A- response. - DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the=0A - reader to the topic at hand, but be selective.- The impact that=0A- quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive =0A- can not be overstated!=0A=0A- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her p ersonally, DO NOT=0A- then go ahead and reply to the List.- Be aware th at clicking the=0A- "reply" button on your mail package does no t necessarily send your=0A- response to the original poster.- You might have to actively address=0A- your response with the original poster' s email address.=0A=0A- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something=0A- to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal.- &q uot;Way to go!", "I=0A- agree", and "Congratulations& quot; are all responses that are better sent=0A- to the original poster d irectly, rather than to the List at large.=0A=0A- When responding to others ' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to=0A- comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly=0A- contribute something valu able.=0A=0A- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your ton e=0A- polite and respectful.- Don't make snide comments, personally attack=0A- other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously =0A- controversial issue.- This will only cause a pointless debate that =0A- will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.=0A=0A- Occa sional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly =0A- subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable.- Posts by =0A- List members promoting their respective products or items for sale =0A- should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble =0A- a typical SPAM m essage.- The List isn't about commercialism, but =0A- is about shar ing information and knowledge.- This applies to =0A- everyone, includin g those who provide products to the entire =0A- community.- Informal pr esentation and moderation should be the =0A- operatives with respect to a dvertising on the Lists.=0A=0A-------=0A=0A=0A[This is an automated posting =========================0A - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admi ===== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aviation-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Aviation-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aviation-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aviation-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.