Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:17 AM - Low voltage (RFG842@aol.com)
2. 07:49 AM - Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Hal Rozema)
3. 09:17 AM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Cy Galley)
4. 09:41 AM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Cy Galley)
5. 09:51 AM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Fabian Osterwalder)
6. 07:46 PM - Re: gears for narco com's (Charlie & Tupper England)
7. 08:19 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Matthew Mucker)
8. 08:44 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Jim & Jeanette Oberst)
9. 09:03 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Matthew Mucker)
Message 1
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--> Avionics-List message posted by: RFG842@aol.com
Not really an avionics problem but close. Member of the KRnet is looking for
a circuit to add a low voltage indicator lite for for his battery driven
ignition system on his Volks engine. Would be able to tell if his alternator
was working at a glance.
Thanks, Bob
Message 2
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business journal <phoenix@bizjournals.com>, CHANNEL 3 <scott@azfamily.com>,
Chuck Mulloy <cdmbam@yahoo.com>, drudge <drudge@drudgereport.com>,
George W Bush <president@whitehouse.gov>,
Joe Norris EAA Information <jnorris@eaa.org>,
Mariann <info@arizonaaviation.com>, Mike DiFrisco <mdifrisco@eaa.org>,
Paul Bessing kitlog <pbesing@yahoo.com>,
to send to Jodel Group <jodel@yahoogroups.com>,
ZENITH LIST <zenith-list@matronics.com>,
"rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>,
"avionics-list@matronics.com" <avionics-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA
TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM
In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that
you can be
knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you
pose
a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs
--
everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be
immediately out of a job.
The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It
will
notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s),
pending
your 'appeal.'
You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a
'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your
knowing
why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final
ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.
We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan,
in
the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that."
We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule
expressly
makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the
Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that
the
person poses a security threat."
As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots,
she
said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination
that
you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK --
so,
how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is
such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database,"
she
said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be
able
to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a
'security
risk.'
Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the
NPRM,
and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting
published
in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No
NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought
maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so
here are my instructions and suggestions.
1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html
Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for your
comments.
I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman
Certificate Based on Security Grounds
2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov
and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at
this point.
3. I clicked continue on the next page.
4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is
probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be
required.
5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all.
6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked
it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word
processor. I need this to make me look intelligent.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal Rozema" <hartist1@cox.net>
"business journal" <phoenix@bizjournals.com>; "CHANNEL 3"
<scott@azfamily.com>; "Chuck Mulloy" <cdmbam@yahoo.com>; "drudge"
<drudge@drudgereport.com>; "George W Bush" <president@whitehouse.gov>; "Joe
Norris EAA Information" <jnorris@eaa.org>; "Mariann"
<info@arizonaaviation.com>; "Mike DiFrisco" <mdifrisco@eaa.org>; "Paul
Bessing kitlog" <pbesing@yahoo.com>; "to send to Jodel Group"
<jodel@yahoogroups.com>; "ZENITH LIST" <zenith-list@matronics.com>;
<rv-list@matronics.com>; <avionics-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without
recourse.. SECURITY
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
>
>
> You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA
> TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM
>
> In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that
> you can be
> knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you
> pose
> a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs
> --
> everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be
> immediately out of a job.
>
> The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It
> will
> notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s),
> pending
> your 'appeal.'
>
> You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a
> 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your
> knowing
> why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final
> ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.
>
> We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan,
> in
> the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that."
>
> We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule
> expressly
> makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the
> Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that
> the
> person poses a security threat."
>
> As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots,
> she
> said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination
> that
> you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK --
> so,
> how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is
>
> such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database,"
> she
> said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be
> able
> to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a
> 'security
> risk.'
>
> Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the
> NPRM,
> and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting
> published
> in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No
>
> NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought
maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so
here are my instructions and suggestions.
1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html
Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for your
comments.
I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman
Certificate Based on Security Grounds
2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov
and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at
this point.
3. I clicked continue on the next page.
4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is
probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be
required.
5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all.
6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked
it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word
processor. I need this to make me look intelligent.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal Rozema" <hartist1@cox.net>
"business journal" <phoenix@bizjournals.com>; "CHANNEL 3"
<scott@azfamily.com>; "Chuck Mulloy" <cdmbam@yahoo.com>; "drudge"
<drudge@drudgereport.com>; "George W Bush" <president@whitehouse.gov>; "Joe
Norris EAA Information" <jnorris@eaa.org>; "Mariann"
<info@arizonaaviation.com>; "Mike DiFrisco" <mdifrisco@eaa.org>; "Paul
Bessing kitlog" <pbesing@yahoo.com>; "to send to Jodel Group"
<jodel@yahoogroups.com>; "ZENITH LIST" <zenith-list@matronics.com>;
<rv-list@matronics.com>; <avionics-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without
recourse.. SECURITY
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
>
>
> You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA
> TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM
>
> In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that
> you can be
> knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you
> pose
> a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs
> --
> everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be
> immediately out of a job.
>
> The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It
> will
> notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s),
> pending
> your 'appeal.'
>
> You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a
> 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your
> knowing
> why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final
> ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.
>
> We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan,
> in
> the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that."
>
> We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule
> expressly
> makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the
> Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that
> the
> person poses a security threat."
>
> As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots,
> she
> said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination
> that
> you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK --
> so,
> how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is
>
> such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database,"
> she
> said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be
> able
> to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a
> 'security
> risk.'
>
> Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the
> NPRM,
> and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting
> published
> in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No
>
> NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Fabian Osterwalder" <mail@osterwalder.net>
That's the way things were done a decade ago in Soviet dominated Eastern
Europe.....
Fabian (Berlin/Germany)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license
without recourse.. SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought
maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so
here are my instructions and suggestions.
1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html
Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for your
comments.
I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman
Certificate Based on Security Grounds
2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov
and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at
this point.
3. I clicked continue on the next page.
4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is
probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be
required.
5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all.
6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked
it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word
processor. I need this to make me look intelligent.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal Rozema" <hartist1@cox.net>
"business journal" <phoenix@bizjournals.com>; "CHANNEL 3"
<scott@azfamily.com>; "Chuck Mulloy" <cdmbam@yahoo.com>; "drudge"
<drudge@drudgereport.com>; "George W Bush" <president@whitehouse.gov>; "Joe
Norris EAA Information" <jnorris@eaa.org>; "Mariann"
<info@arizonaaviation.com>; "Mike DiFrisco" <mdifrisco@eaa.org>; "Paul
Bessing kitlog" <pbesing@yahoo.com>; "to send to Jodel Group"
<jodel@yahoogroups.com>; "ZENITH LIST" <zenith-list@matronics.com>;
<rv-list@matronics.com>; <avionics-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without
recourse.. SECURITY
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
>
>
> You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA
> TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM
>
> In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that
> you can be
> knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you
> pose
> a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs
> --
> everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be
> immediately out of a job.
>
> The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It
> will
> notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s),
> pending
> your 'appeal.'
>
> You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a
> 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your
> knowing
> why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final
> ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.
>
> We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan,
> in
> the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that."
>
> We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule
> expressly
> makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the
> Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that
> the
> person poses a security threat."
>
> As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots,
> she
> said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination
> that
> you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK --
> so,
> how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is
>
> such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database,"
> she
> said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be
> able
> to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a
> 'security
> risk.'
>
> Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the
> NPRM,
> and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting
> published
> in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No
>
> NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: gears for narco com's |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
PAUL RIVERS wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: "PAUL RIVERS" <creekcarp@worldnet.att.net>
>
>does anyone know where to get the plastic gears for Narco com's---tnx Paul
>
>
>
If you find some, please let all of us know.
Charlie
Message 7
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| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" <matthew@mucker.net>
On AOPA's homepage today as well: http://www.aopa.org/
Welcome to "1984", fellas. :(
-Matt
do not archive, they might think I'm a terrorist.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Jim & Jeanette Oberst" <joberst@cox-internet.com>
Thanks. This was really helpful. I hope EVERYONE on this list submits a
comment.
Jim Oberst.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without
recourse.. SECURITY
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I
thought
> maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so
> here are my instructions and suggestions.
> 1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html
> Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for
your
> comments.
> I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman
> Certificate Based on Security Grounds
> 2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov
> and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at
> this point.
> 3. I clicked continue on the next page.
> 4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is
> probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be
> required.
> 5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all.
> 6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked
> it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word
> processor. I need this to make me look intelligent.
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hal Rozema" <hartist1@cox.net>
> To: "Geoff" <geoff@hoffmans.net>; "Bill O'Reilly" <oreilly@foxnews.com>;
> "business journal" <phoenix@bizjournals.com>; "CHANNEL 3"
> <scott@azfamily.com>; "Chuck Mulloy" <cdmbam@yahoo.com>; "drudge"
> <drudge@drudgereport.com>; "George W Bush" <president@whitehouse.gov>;
"Joe
> Norris EAA Information" <jnorris@eaa.org>; "Mariann"
> <info@arizonaaviation.com>; "Mike DiFrisco" <mdifrisco@eaa.org>; "Paul
> Bessing kitlog" <pbesing@yahoo.com>; "to send to Jodel Group"
> <jodel@yahoogroups.com>; "ZENITH LIST" <zenith-list@matronics.com>;
> <rv-list@matronics.com>; <avionics-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without
> recourse.. SECURITY
>
>
> > --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
> >
> >
> > You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA
> > TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM
> >
> > In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that
> > you can be
> > knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you
> > pose
> > a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs
> > --
> > everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be
> > immediately out of a job.
> >
> > The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It
> > will
> > notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s),
> > pending
> > your 'appeal.'
> >
> > You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a
> > 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your
> > knowing
> > why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final
> > ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.
> >
> > We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan,
> > in
> > the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that."
> >
> > We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule
> > expressly
> > makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the
> > Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that
> > the
> > person poses a security threat."
> >
> > As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots,
> > she
> > said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination
> > that
> > you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK --
> > so,
> > how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is
> >
> > such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database,"
> > she
> > said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be
> > able
> > to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a
> > 'security
> > risk.'
> >
> > Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the
> > NPRM,
> > and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting
> > published
> > in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No
> >
> > NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. |
SECURITY
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" <matthew@mucker.net>
One caution that I would suggest would be to READ the legislation before
commenting on it.
Or get a summary of the legislation from a reliable source. (I expect AOPA
and EAA to get in on the action real soon now).
There's nothing like blowing your stack only to find out later you were
misinformed about the whole thing.
-Matt
do not archive
>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Jim & Jeanette Oberst"
> <joberst@cox-internet.com>
>
> Thanks. This was really helpful. I hope EVERYONE on this list submits a
> comment.
>
> Jim Oberst.
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