---------------------------------------------------------- Avionics-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/24/03: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:17 AM - Low voltage (RFG842@aol.com) 2. 07:49 AM - Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Hal Rozema) 3. 09:17 AM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Cy Galley) 4. 09:41 AM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Cy Galley) 5. 09:51 AM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Fabian Osterwalder) 6. 07:46 PM - Re: gears for narco com's (Charlie & Tupper England) 7. 08:19 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Matthew Mucker) 8. 08:44 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Jim & Jeanette Oberst) 9. 09:03 PM - Re: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY (Matthew Mucker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:37 AM PST US From: RFG842@aol.com Subject: Avionics-List: Low voltage --> Avionics-List message posted by: RFG842@aol.com Not really an avionics problem but close. Member of the KRnet is looking for a circuit to add a low voltage indicator lite for for his battery driven ignition system on his Volks engine. Would be able to tell if his alternator was working at a glance. Thanks, Bob ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:16 AM PST US From: Hal Rozema business journal , CHANNEL 3 , Chuck Mulloy , drudge , George W Bush , Joe Norris EAA Information , Mariann , Mike DiFrisco , Paul Bessing kitlog , to send to Jodel Group , ZENITH LIST , "rv-list@matronics.com" , "avionics-list@matronics.com" Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that you can be knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you pose a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs -- everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be immediately out of a job. The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It will notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s), pending your 'appeal.' You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your knowing why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers. We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan, in the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that." We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule expressly makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that the person poses a security threat." As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots, she said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination that you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK -- so, how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database," she said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be able to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a 'security risk.' Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the NPRM, and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting published in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:21 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so here are my instructions and suggestions. 1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for your comments. I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman Certificate Based on Security Grounds 2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at this point. 3. I clicked continue on the next page. 4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be required. 5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all. 6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word processor. I need this to make me look intelligent. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Rozema" "business journal" ; "CHANNEL 3" ; "Chuck Mulloy" ; "drudge" ; "George W Bush" ; "Joe Norris EAA Information" ; "Mariann" ; "Mike DiFrisco" ; "Paul Bessing kitlog" ; "to send to Jodel Group" ; "ZENITH LIST" ; ; Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY > --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema > > > You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA > TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM > > In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that > you can be > knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you > pose > a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs > -- > everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be > immediately out of a job. > > The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It > will > notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s), > pending > your 'appeal.' > > You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a > 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your > knowing > why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final > ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers. > > We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan, > in > the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that." > > We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule > expressly > makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the > Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that > the > person poses a security threat." > > As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots, > she > said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination > that > you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK -- > so, > how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is > > such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database," > she > said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be > able > to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a > 'security > risk.' > > Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the > NPRM, > and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting > published > in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No > > NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:00 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so here are my instructions and suggestions. 1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for your comments. I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman Certificate Based on Security Grounds 2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at this point. 3. I clicked continue on the next page. 4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be required. 5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all. 6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word processor. I need this to make me look intelligent. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Rozema" "business journal" ; "CHANNEL 3" ; "Chuck Mulloy" ; "drudge" ; "George W Bush" ; "Joe Norris EAA Information" ; "Mariann" ; "Mike DiFrisco" ; "Paul Bessing kitlog" ; "to send to Jodel Group" ; "ZENITH LIST" ; ; Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY > --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema > > > You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA > TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM > > In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that > you can be > knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you > pose > a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs > -- > everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be > immediately out of a job. > > The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It > will > notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s), > pending > your 'appeal.' > > You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a > 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your > knowing > why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final > ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers. > > We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan, > in > the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that." > > We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule > expressly > makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the > Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that > the > person poses a security threat." > > As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots, > she > said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination > that > you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK -- > so, > how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is > > such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database," > she > said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be > able > to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a > 'security > risk.' > > Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the > NPRM, > and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting > published > in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No > > NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:25 AM PST US From: "Fabian Osterwalder" Subject: RE: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Fabian Osterwalder" That's the way things were done a decade ago in Soviet dominated Eastern Europe..... Fabian (Berlin/Germany) -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so here are my instructions and suggestions. 1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for your comments. I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman Certificate Based on Security Grounds 2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at this point. 3. I clicked continue on the next page. 4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be required. 5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all. 6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word processor. I need this to make me look intelligent. Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal Rozema" "business journal" ; "CHANNEL 3" ; "Chuck Mulloy" ; "drudge" ; "George W Bush" ; "Joe Norris EAA Information" ; "Mariann" ; "Mike DiFrisco" ; "Paul Bessing kitlog" ; "to send to Jodel Group" ; "ZENITH LIST" ; ; Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY > --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema > > > You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA > TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM > > In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that > you can be > knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you > pose > a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs > -- > everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be > immediately out of a job. > > The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It > will > notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s), > pending > your 'appeal.' > > You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a > 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your > knowing > why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final > ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers. > > We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan, > in > the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that." > > We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule > expressly > makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the > Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that > the > person poses a security threat." > > As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots, > she > said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination > that > you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK -- > so, > how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is > > such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database," > she > said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be > able > to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a > 'security > risk.' > > Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the > NPRM, > and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting > published > in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No > > NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:10 PM PST US From: Charlie & Tupper England Subject: Re: Avionics-List: gears for narco com's --> Avionics-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England PAUL RIVERS wrote: >--> Avionics-List message posted by: "PAUL RIVERS" > >does anyone know where to get the plastic gears for Narco com's---tnx Paul > > > If you find some, please let all of us know. Charlie ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:46 PM PST US From: "Matthew Mucker" Subject: RE: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" On AOPA's homepage today as well: http://www.aopa.org/ Welcome to "1984", fellas. :( -Matt do not archive, they might think I'm a terrorist. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:10 PM PST US From: "Jim & Jeanette Oberst" Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Jim & Jeanette Oberst" Thanks. This was really helpful. I hope EVERYONE on this list submits a comment. Jim Oberst. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY > --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > I was able to make an electronic comment on the NPRM 2003-14293. I thought > maybe some of the rest of you might have a need to do this at some time so > here are my instructions and suggestions. > 1. Start at http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/index.html > Here is where you can navigate to the register and find the notices for your > comments. > I found that I wanted to comment on 2003-14293 Ineligibility for an Airman > Certificate Based on Security Grounds > 2. I then went to: http://dms.dot.gov > and clicked on the "comment/submissions" tab. You can also do a search at > this point. > 3. I clicked continue on the next page. > 4. After entering the docket number, it took me to the comment page. It is > probably best to enter in your personal data but it doesn't not seem to be > required. > 5.Enter you comment in the box and click on submit. That's all. > 6. You can copy and paste in your comments so I composed and Spell Checked > it in Outlook Express but you could do the same copy and paste from a word > processor. I need this to make me look intelligent. > > Cy Galley > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hal Rozema" > To: "Geoff" ; "Bill O'Reilly" ; > "business journal" ; "CHANNEL 3" > ; "Chuck Mulloy" ; "drudge" > ; "George W Bush" ; "Joe > Norris EAA Information" ; "Mariann" > ; "Mike DiFrisco" ; "Paul > Bessing kitlog" ; "to send to Jodel Group" > ; "ZENITH LIST" ; > ; > Subject: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without > recourse.. SECURITY > > > > --> Avionics-List message posted by: Hal Rozema > > > > > > You're Grounded/Suspended: TSA Trumps FAA > > TSA Takes Over Issuance/Maintenance of Certificates, in New NPRM > > > > In the Federal Register Friday, 01.24.2003, you'll be able to see that > > you can be > > knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you > > pose > > a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs > > -- > > everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be > > immediately out of a job. > > > > The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It > > will > > notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s), > > pending > > your 'appeal.' > > > > You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a > > 'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your > > knowing > > why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final > > ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers. > > > > We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan, > > in > > the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that." > > > > We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule > > expressly > > makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the > > Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that > > the > > person poses a security threat." > > > > As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots, > > she > > said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination > > that > > you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK -- > > so, > > how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is > > > > such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database," > > she > > said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be > > able > > to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a > > 'security > > risk.' > > > > Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the > > NPRM, > > and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting > > published > > in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No > > > > NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:24 PM PST US From: "Matthew Mucker" Subject: RE: Avionics-List: Be Aware FAA can pull anyones license without recourse.. SECURITY --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" One caution that I would suggest would be to READ the legislation before commenting on it. Or get a summary of the legislation from a reliable source. (I expect AOPA and EAA to get in on the action real soon now). There's nothing like blowing your stack only to find out later you were misinformed about the whole thing. -Matt do not archive > > --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Jim & Jeanette Oberst" > > > Thanks. This was really helpful. I hope EVERYONE on this list submits a > comment. > > Jim Oberst.