Today's Message Index:
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1. 03:28 AM - Re: Garmin GDL 49 (Mark Thomas Mueller)
2. 09:37 AM - Re: Garmin GDL 49 (David Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin GDL 49 |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller@comcast.net>
I went around and around with Garmin about two years ago about the GDL
49. The SOLE reason I bought the GNS 530 over the 430 was the larger
screen to accommodate weather datalink display. The Garmin reps and
engineers I spoke with all swore they had the solution (which turned out
to be the 49).
I did EXTENSIVE research on the OrbComm based request-reply system when
it finally started to see the light of day (EchoFlight was the first to
use this approach), and it was fairly unanimous that these datalink
systems did not perform to expectations. Many users liked the fact that
they were charged only by the amount of usage, but then were chagrined
when the bills came. Turned out they were charged for data upon request,
not reply. Thus, if their box sent a request but never received the
data, they were still charged for the "message". There is no way to
prove your box never got the data, and the reception was unreliable.
They had to argue with the billing company, EchoFlight, not Garmin.
The data resolution using this system was never great to begin with. The
data throughput is around 1200 baud. Too slow for hi-res NEXRAD.
I talked with WSI and WxWorx at OSH. They said Garmin would not release
their proprietary data standards to allow third parties to develop
alternative weather products for the 430/530, and Garmin would have to
get a significant cut even if they did. So it would basically be up to
Garmin to do something.
I pressed the Garmin reps several times. They had the standard corporate
response. "Garmin stands behind the GDL-49, and for the 430/530 users,
that is what you can have."
Let me say, my opinion of Garmin changed significantly that day. Then
Garmin bought UPSAT, so the only other company that would actually allow
third parties to develop other weather datalink technologies went away.
Then at OSH last year, Garmin unveiled the G1000. It was also mentioned
that the G1000 would use the XM-based weather datalink! They ABANDONED
their GDL-49 for their flagship product. So again, I pressed Garmin when
they would have the link for the legacy 430/530 products. The response
was "Garmin is still committed to the GDL-49 for the 430/530 user base."
I had a sidebar with a Garmin engineer that admitted last summer the
GDL-49 was a problem child, but we would not see an XM solution for the
430/530 until the roll out and certification of the G1000 was 100%
completed. The GDL-69 was in development last year, but initially will
ONLY support the G1000. They do not want to spend their engineering
resources for the legacy products at the moment. I was quite
disappointed.
It is interesting to note that even Avidyne is releasing an XM-based
datalink system for their MFDs now. I think everyone realizes LEO
request/reply systems are not practical for high-reliability, time
critical datalinks.
I got tired of waiting, and needed weather datalink for THIS T-storm
season. So I went with the NavAir PocketPC software running the WxWorx
portable receiver. The ENTIRE system was less than $2K, and it works
brilliantly. I just navigated around a line of Level 5 T-storms on
Saturday with this product. I would never have attempted the trip
without it.
As far as the soon to be certified systems, you are looking at around
$5K + install which includes boring another hole in your airframe for
yet another antenna. Also, the 430/530 screens are only 8 colors, I
believe, which will limit the variety of data that can be displayed to
some degree.
Had I to do it over again, I would have saved my pennies and got the 430
over the 530. I won't trust any Garmin rep about future product
capabilities again. They have been perpetually late supporting legacy
products. Don't even get me started on WAAS! That was another thing they
PROMISED the 430/530 were WAAS capable prior to my purchase. Now it
turns out you will have to yank the box and ship it to Garmin for a
major board modification. Not to mention, this mod was due out last
January. Still have not heard any more news about their progress.
Never trust an avionics rep!
YMMV.
Regards,
Mark
Time: 09:05:52 AM PST US
From: "Ron Curry" <rec@curry.org>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Garmin GDL 49
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Ron Curry" <rec@curry.org>
There has been extensive discussion of the GDL-49 over at the Cessna
Pilots Association forum. The fairly unanimous opinion is it's not
recommended. Apparently the reception is poor, the update delay's are
extensive, and the data is frequently inaccurate. I have personally
spoken with Garmin's VP of marketing about this product and they are
aware that it has problems and plan to obsolete it soon and release an
XM satellite based product called the GDL-69.
Nearly all of the owners over at CPA would recommend that you save your
money for something better. The most reliable datalink with the best
data seems to be the WSI right now. It displays on the MX-20 and a
couple of other devices but not on the GNS-530/430.
Regards,
Ron Curry
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin GDL 49 |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Mark,
Thanks for the detailed update on Garmin's weather data problems and the
solution that you took with the NavAir system.
It is info like this that really makes these wonderful "Lists" work for the
members.
What swayed you to the NavAir system over, say, the Anywhere system and
others?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Thomas Mueller" <mark.t.mueller@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Garmin GDL 49
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mark Thomas Mueller"
<mark.t.mueller@comcast.net>
>
> I went around and around with Garmin about two years ago about the GDL
> 49. The SOLE reason I bought the GNS 530 over the 430 was the larger
> screen to accommodate weather datalink display. The Garmin reps and
> engineers I spoke with all swore they had the solution (which turned out
> to be the 49).
>
>
> I did EXTENSIVE research on the OrbComm based request-reply system when
> it finally started to see the light of day (EchoFlight was the first to
> use this approach), and it was fairly unanimous that these datalink
> systems did not perform to expectations. Many users liked the fact that
> they were charged only by the amount of usage, but then were chagrined
> when the bills came. Turned out they were charged for data upon request,
> not reply. Thus, if their box sent a request but never received the
> data, they were still charged for the "message". There is no way to
> prove your box never got the data, and the reception was unreliable.
> They had to argue with the billing company, EchoFlight, not Garmin.
>
>
> The data resolution using this system was never great to begin with. The
> data throughput is around 1200 baud. Too slow for hi-res NEXRAD.
>
>
> I talked with WSI and WxWorx at OSH. They said Garmin would not release
> their proprietary data standards to allow third parties to develop
> alternative weather products for the 430/530, and Garmin would have to
> get a significant cut even if they did. So it would basically be up to
> Garmin to do something.
>
>
> I pressed the Garmin reps several times. They had the standard corporate
> response. "Garmin stands behind the GDL-49, and for the 430/530 users,
> that is what you can have."
>
>
> Let me say, my opinion of Garmin changed significantly that day. Then
> Garmin bought UPSAT, so the only other company that would actually allow
> third parties to develop other weather datalink technologies went away.
>
>
> Then at OSH last year, Garmin unveiled the G1000. It was also mentioned
> that the G1000 would use the XM-based weather datalink! They ABANDONED
> their GDL-49 for their flagship product. So again, I pressed Garmin when
> they would have the link for the legacy 430/530 products. The response
> was "Garmin is still committed to the GDL-49 for the 430/530 user base."
> I had a sidebar with a Garmin engineer that admitted last summer the
> GDL-49 was a problem child, but we would not see an XM solution for the
> 430/530 until the roll out and certification of the G1000 was 100%
> completed. The GDL-69 was in development last year, but initially will
> ONLY support the G1000. They do not want to spend their engineering
> resources for the legacy products at the moment. I was quite
> disappointed.
>
>
> It is interesting to note that even Avidyne is releasing an XM-based
> datalink system for their MFDs now. I think everyone realizes LEO
> request/reply systems are not practical for high-reliability, time
> critical datalinks.
>
>
> I got tired of waiting, and needed weather datalink for THIS T-storm
> season. So I went with the NavAir PocketPC software running the WxWorx
> portable receiver. The ENTIRE system was less than $2K, and it works
> brilliantly. I just navigated around a line of Level 5 T-storms on
> Saturday with this product. I would never have attempted the trip
> without it.
>
>
> As far as the soon to be certified systems, you are looking at around
> $5K + install which includes boring another hole in your airframe for
> yet another antenna. Also, the 430/530 screens are only 8 colors, I
> believe, which will limit the variety of data that can be displayed to
> some degree.
>
>
> Had I to do it over again, I would have saved my pennies and got the 430
> over the 530. I won't trust any Garmin rep about future product
> capabilities again. They have been perpetually late supporting legacy
> products. Don't even get me started on WAAS! That was another thing they
> PROMISED the 430/530 were WAAS capable prior to my purchase. Now it
> turns out you will have to yank the box and ship it to Garmin for a
> major board modification. Not to mention, this mod was due out last
> January. Still have not heard any more news about their progress.
>
>
> Never trust an avionics rep!
>
>
> YMMV.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> Time: 09:05:52 AM PST US
>
> From: "Ron Curry" <rec@curry.org>
>
> Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Garmin GDL 49
>
>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Ron Curry" <rec@curry.org>
>
>
> There has been extensive discussion of the GDL-49 over at the Cessna
> Pilots Association forum. The fairly unanimous opinion is it's not
> recommended. Apparently the reception is poor, the update delay's are
> extensive, and the data is frequently inaccurate. I have personally
> spoken with Garmin's VP of marketing about this product and they are
> aware that it has problems and plan to obsolete it soon and release an
> XM satellite based product called the GDL-69.
>
>
> Nearly all of the owners over at CPA would recommend that you save your
> money for something better. The most reliable datalink with the best
> data seems to be the WSI right now. It displays on the MX-20 and a
> couple of other devices but not on the GNS-530/430.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Ron Curry
>
>
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