Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - Re: DME Channeling (Brian Lloyd)
2. 08:57 AM - Re: DME Channeling (splevy@l-band-systems.com)
3. 03:17 PM - Re: DME Channeling (Pete Waters)
4. 09:33 PM - Serial input transponders (Brandon Tucker)
5. 09:41 PM - Re: Serial input transponders (Ken Simmons)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: DME Channeling |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Sep 20, 2004, at 9:57 PM, Pete Waters wrote:
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: Pete Waters <pedroagua@yahoo.com>
>
> Stan,
>
> I went though this same question about a year ago. I concluded that
> the KNS-80, which has DME built in to a VOR / ILS box equiiped with
> RNAV function, was the most cost-effective way to get DME.
> Stand-alone DMEs seem to cost a bundle an really provide very little
> -- just a distance to a ground station. With the KNS-80 you also get
> VOR-based RNAV capability (although you can only program a maximum of
> four waypoints at a time). However, this lets you fly to fixes
> defined by a radial and a DME and simply follow your CDI needles like
> you're tracking a radial. The DME countdown will tell you when you
> get there.
> A downside is that there are limited numbers of indicators that are
> compatible with the KNS-80. The usual KI-209 that goes with the usual
> KX-155 won't work. A KI-206 will work, but it's more expensive, so
> you'll lose mone on the trade-in.
When I upgraded the panel in my Aztec I kept the KNS-80 but got rid of
the electromechanical HSI that was there and replaced it with a Sandel
EHSI. Since the KNS-80 was backup to the new GX-60/SL-30/Sandel combo
I was installing I wanted it to operate completely standalone. Almost
any ARINC-compatible VOR/ILS indicator with AC OBS resolver will work
with the KNS-80 I found an old Bendix unit gathering dust in a radio
shop and bought it for a song. If all else fails, the KNS-80 with its
dedicated indicator will let me navigate and shoot any VOR/LOC/ILS/RNAV
approach.
And the KNS-80 works really well and is spot on. I agree that it is a
great radio.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: DME Channeling |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: splevy@l-band-systems.com
Pete,
Your are exactly right about wanting DME function. My objective is to get
it with minimum expense and effort. I am starting IFR training, and I will
most likely take my checkride in this plane.
I did look at the KNS80 as an option, but this is going into a Grumman
Traveler, and I only have a 1.75 inch opening left in the stack. That also
seems to rule out the panel GPS units I have seen which need 2 inches. I
was also told that the GPS installation had to be fully IFR compliant to
(legally) use the DME function. Since I have two com radios and two of the
Narco all-in-one navs, that would probably mean swapping for nav-coms and
new indicators, or at least getting one of the new Narco units that can be
driven by a GPS (~$3K).
Despite the rather minimal performance per dollar for a simple DME, it
looks like it is still the best solution. And the KN62/4 are only 1.3
inches high, so they will fit without any modification.
So I think I am back to trying to channel the DME from the Narco, or just
tune it manually.
Stan
At 06:57 PM 9/20/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: Pete Waters <pedroagua@yahoo.com>
>
>Stan,
>
> I went though this same question about a year ago. I concluded that
> the KNS-80, which has DME built in to a VOR / ILS box equiiped with RNAV
> function, was the most cost-effective way to get DME. Stand-alone DMEs
> seem to cost a bundle an really provide very little -- just a distance to
> a ground station. With the KNS-80 you also get VOR-based RNAV capability
> (although you can only program a maximum of four waypoints at a
> time). However, this lets you fly to fixes defined by a radial and a DME
> and simply follow your CDI needles like you're tracking a radial. The
> DME countdown will tell you when you get there.
> A downside is that there are limited numbers of indicators that are
> compatible with the KNS-80. The usual KI-209 that goes with the usual
> KX-155 won't work. A KI-206 will work, but it's more expensive, so
> you'll lose mone on the trade-in.
> Another thing to think about is that you probably don't want DME per
> se, you want DME **function**. As far as I know, this can be supplied by
> the DME readout of a GPS if the GPS is certified for that type if flight.
> I.e. if you want to use the DME readout of a GPS for en route IFR nav,
> it's got to be an enroute-approved IFR GPS. I'm not sure what the rule
> is for approaches...since 1/10th of an NM on a DME readout is 600 feet,
> and approach-certified GPS's are tighter than that, I'd think that you
> could use GPS "DME" on, say, a VOR/DME or ILS/DME approach (especially on
> an arc or to define a missed approach point), but I'd like a second
> opinion on that.
> Full-disclosure here -- I actually bought a used KNS-80 and KI-206
> about a year ago for installation in my RV-4. Since then, I've decided
> to go with a approach-certified GX-60 and NAV-122 combo, mostly becasue
> of weight and space in the tight RV panel, and so I could shoot GPS
> approaches. You might want to check out that path as well. Otherwise,
> note that I'm planning on selling the KNS-80 and KI-206 in a few
> weeks. Contact me off list if you might be interested in it.
> If you want to buy from a vendor, you can get the KNS-80 / KI-206 combo
> from Eastern Avionics (among other places). In the least, you can check
> out their website for a description.
>
>- Pete Waters
>N562PW
>
>splevy@l-band-systems.com wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: splevy@l-band-systems.com
>
>I am looking into adding a DME unit. Hopefully some one can answer a
>couple of questions:
>
>Can a King KN62/4 DME be interfaced to the channeling outputs of a Narco
>122 nav unit?
>
>Where can I find the pin connection information on the King DMEs?
>
>Thanks for any help.
>
>Stan
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: DME Channeling |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Pete Waters <pedroagua@yahoo.com>
Stan,
Another thing to think about is to use an approach-certified GPS without moving-map or CDI display, i.e. one that just shows on the box itself the radial and DME to a waypoint. That way the DME readout is legal if you're doing the rest of the navigation off a VOR or ILS system. I think the UPSAT SL-50 might do the trick for you, and it's only 1.3 inches tall. Eastern Avionics (www.avionix.com) lists it on their website for $1795, although I don't know if they still stock it (their webpage can often be out of date).
The cost of getting the IFR-approved installation will also be a factor, however.
But it just seems to me that radio-based DMEs cost big bucks and provide
very little data for the price. Using the GPS method gives you DME and bearing
info for less money. Over to you.
BTW, I have no connection with Eastern Avionics. It's just that in my websurfing,
they seem to have one of the best selections at some of the best prices.
They come across as very knowlegdable on the phone, also.
- Pedro
splevy@l-band-systems.com wrote:
--> Avionics-List message posted by: splevy@l-band-systems.com
Pete,
Your are exactly right about wanting DME function. My objective is to get
it with minimum expense and effort. I am starting IFR training, and I will
most likely take my checkride in this plane.
I did look at the KNS80 as an option, but this is going into a Grumman
Traveler, and I only have a 1.75 inch opening left in the stack. That also
seems to rule out the panel GPS units I have seen which need 2 inches. I
was also told that the GPS installation had to be fully IFR compliant to
(legally) use the DME function. Since I have two com radios and two of the
Narco all-in-one navs, that would probably mean swapping for nav-coms and
new indicators, or at least getting one of the new Narco units that can be
driven by a GPS (~$3K).
Despite the rather minimal performance per dollar for a simple DME, it
looks like it is still the best solution. And the KN62/4 are only 1.3
inches high, so they will fit without any modification.
So I think I am back to trying to channel the DME from the Narco, or just
tune it manually.
Stan
At 06:57 PM 9/20/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: Pete Waters
>
>Stan,
>
> I went though this same question about a year ago. I concluded that
> the KNS-80, which has DME built in to a VOR / ILS box equiiped with RNAV
> function, was the most cost-effective way to get DME. Stand-alone DMEs
> seem to cost a bundle an really provide very little -- just a distance to
> a ground station. With the KNS-80 you also get VOR-based RNAV capability
> (although you can only program a maximum of four waypoints at a
> time). However, this lets you fly to fixes defined by a radial and a DME
> and simply follow your CDI needles like you're tracking a radial. The
> DME countdown will tell you when you get there.
> A downside is that there are limited numbers of indicators that are
> compatible with the KNS-80. The usual KI-209 that goes with the usual
> KX-155 won't work. A KI-206 will work, but it's more expensive, so
> you'll lose mone on the trade-in.
> Another thing to think about is that you probably don't want DME per
> se, you want DME **function**. As far as I know, this can be supplied by
> the DME readout of a GPS if the GPS is certified for that type if flight.
> I.e. if you want to use the DME readout of a GPS for en route IFR nav,
> it's got to be an enroute-approved IFR GPS. I'm not sure what the rule
> is for approaches...since 1/10th of an NM on a DME readout is 600 feet,
> and approach-certified GPS's are tighter than that, I'd think that you
> could use GPS "DME" on, say, a VOR/DME or ILS/DME approach (especially on
> an arc or to define a missed approach point), but I'd like a second
> opinion on that.
> Full-disclosure here -- I actually bought a used KNS-80 and KI-206
> about a year ago for installation in my RV-4. Since then, I've decided
> to go with a approach-certified GX-60 and NAV-122 combo, mostly becasue
> of weight and space in the tight RV panel, and so I could shoot GPS
> approaches. You might want to check out that path as well. Otherwise,
> note that I'm planning on selling the KNS-80 and KI-206 in a few
> weeks. Contact me off list if you might be interested in it.
> If you want to buy from a vendor, you can get the KNS-80 / KI-206 combo
> from Eastern Avionics (among other places). In the least, you can check
> out their website for a description.
>
>- Pete Waters
>N562PW
>
>splevy@l-band-systems.com wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: splevy@l-band-systems.com
>
>I am looking into adding a DME unit. Hopefully some one can answer a
>couple of questions:
>
>Can a King KN62/4 DME be interfaced to the channeling outputs of a Narco
>122 nav unit?
>
>Where can I find the pin connection information on the King DMEs?
>
>Thanks for any help.
>
>Stan
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Serial input transponders |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
I have been looking through the website for the Dynon
system, and found that their altitude encoder output
for transponder is serial. Which models of
transponders use serial ports for altitude input? I
read somewhere that some use parrallel, but the
article did not list the suspects.
Encoders are cheap, but I don't want to buy one
if I don't have to.
Thanks in advance,
Brandon Tucker
601 HDS, Corvair
__________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Serial input transponders |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
The Garmin GTX 327 is one. It will take either the parallel or serial code. Doug
at Dynon has one so he made sure the 10A outputs the correct data stream.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
>
>I have been looking through the website for the Dynon
>system, and found that their altitude encoder output
>for transponder is serial. Which models of
>transponders use serial ports for altitude input? I
>read somewhere that some use parrallel, but the
>article did not list the suspects.
>
> Encoders are cheap, but I don't want to buy one
>if I don't have to.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Brandon Tucker
>601 HDS, Corvair
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
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