Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:34 AM - Nav coms (Bob Gibfried)
2. 09:13 AM - Anyone out there? (springcanyon)
3. 10:12 AM - Re: Anyone out there? (Bruce Gray)
4. 11:32 AM - Anybody out there??? (ROBINFLY@aol.com)
5. 12:00 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (David Lloyd)
6. 12:14 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (Fred Fillinger)
7. 01:44 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (Mike Ferrer)
8. 01:56 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (Ralph E. Capen)
9. 06:47 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (David Lloyd)
10. 07:00 PM - Re: Anyone out there? (Jim Stone)
11. 08:08 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (NYTerminat@aol.com)
12. 09:21 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (John Rippengal)
13. 09:38 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (David Lloyd)
14. 10:33 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (Werner Schneider)
15. 10:48 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (Werner Schneider)
16. 11:00 PM - Re: Anybody out there??? (John Rippengal)
Message 1
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--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried" <rfg842@cox.net>
On a serious note, with a club aircraft, I'd take a look at how the plane is
used. For training you still need a nav com with a separate indicator and
glide slope and probably a gps com as a backup. I carry an Icom com but just
as a backup to my Bendix 125 and Bendix KMD 150.
My panel doesn't lend itself to hard IFR approaches but I don't do those
anymore.
Bob, Wichita
Message 2
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| Subject: | Anyone out there? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "springcanyon" <springcanyon@mymethow.com>
Hi Rick,
Yes, Im here just dont have much to write about yet. Im at
the serious thinking about the panel stage. Im looking toward the GRT
EFIS system, but dont quite know how to fill in around it yet.
Don Owens
Spring Canyon Ranch
Message 3
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| Subject: | Anyone out there? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Unless you really have big bucks or don't plan on flying IFR, I'd avoid a
glass panel.
Why? Safety. Look at any heavy metal glass panel. Duel independent
(including dual AHRS) EFIS systems. They even have a 3rd tie breaker steam
gage ADI. All of that redundancy is necessary to insure you have safe
failure modes.
OK, you only have one pilot but you still need 3 independent attitude
systems. You're flying along shooting your local ILS in bad (200 - 1/2)
weather. At 400 AGL you notice your fancy EFIS telling you you're nose high,
your standby vacuum/electric ADI says nose low. What are you going to do?
Which one is right?
We know the failure modes of steam gages, the standard 6-pack has been
developed with independent sources and any discrepancy is readily noticed.
Not so with EFIS. Those black boxes have some strange failure modes. Hence
the FAA requirement for duel systems in part 121 operations.
Now if I were bound and determined to fly a glass panel, I'd stick with
CERTIFIED equipment (Garmin, Chelton, or Avidyne) and put in 2 additional
ADI systems. When I made my decisions last year I decided to go with the
Sandel EHSI, PN101 (Second HSI and #2 nav head), vacuum ADI and electric T&B
(came with the STEC 55X A/P). If I were to do it today, I'd use the
certified Chelton system, a second vacuum attitude indicator, an electric
T&B, and a second ASI and altimeter.
I wonder how many pilots are going to fly that hypnotic Garmin 1000 screen
right into the ground before we wise up.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of springcanyon
Subject: Avionics-List: Anyone out there?
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "springcanyon"
<springcanyon@mymethow.com>
Hi Rick,
Yes, Im here just dont have much to write about yet. Im at
the serious thinking about the panel stage. Im looking toward the GRT
EFIS system, but dont quite know how to fill in around it yet.
Don Owens
Spring Canyon Ranch
Message 4
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| Subject: | Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: ROBINFLY@aol.com
What is your budget? Are you IFR or VFR? Do you need IFR GPS, ADF or DME?
If you are VFR only with very low budget, I will set priority as: COMM,
transponder, GPS, intercom, audio panel, then VOR/ILS. Use portable equipments
when
possible (ie, GPS, intercom, Comm, traffic)
Icom A200 is nice, and I think it is the same radio as King KY-97A. If you
want VOR, King KX-125 is a very good value with more features than KX-155; it
has a built-in CDI, that alone will save you big money on both equipment &
installation. But why use VOR for VFR when a $500 aviation GPS offers much more?
For #2 comm, a nice handheld with external antenna and wiring to audio offers
more than a 2nd panel mount because if you need it for emergency, it is
already there. For many years, I have used a Icom A23 as my 2nd comm. I got looks
from other pilots but with external antenna, it is always loud and clear
everywhere I go. I cannot see any performance difference comparing with my panel
mount.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
...speaking to your example of using a handheld COMM with an external
antenna.
What is the slick or cleverest method today for un-coupling, example, panel
mount, COMM 2 from it's external antenna and connecting a handheld to the
same external antenna?
This would be useful; if the main electrical or COMM's failed, or, if you
stuck in Parking or similar waiting for a clearance or other instructions.
Beats having your main electrical system hot and/or your engine idling for
long periods.
I have seen the antenna feed come out to the front panel and then back in
via BNC "U" shaped short cable. The antenna side can be unconnected and the
hand held plugged in. But, is there a more clever, cleaner way of doing the
same??
David
----- Original Message -----
From: <ROBINFLY@aol.com>
Subject: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: ROBINFLY@aol.com
>
> What is your budget? Are you IFR or VFR? Do you need IFR GPS, ADF or
> DME?
> If you are VFR only with very low budget, I will set priority as: COMM,
> transponder, GPS, intercom, audio panel, then VOR/ILS. Use portable
> equipments when
> possible (ie, GPS, intercom, Comm, traffic)
>
> Icom A200 is nice, and I think it is the same radio as King KY-97A. If
> you
> want VOR, King KX-125 is a very good value with more features than KX-155;
> it
> has a built-in CDI, that alone will save you big money on both equipment &
> installation. But why use VOR for VFR when a $500 aviation GPS offers
> much more?
>
> For #2 comm, a nice handheld with external antenna and wiring to audio
> offers
> more than a 2nd panel mount because if you need it for emergency, it is
> already there. For many years, I have used a Icom A23 as my 2nd comm. I
> got looks
> from other pilots but with external antenna, it is always loud and clear
> everywhere I go. I cannot see any performance difference comparing with
> my panel
> mount.
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> Icom A200 is nice, and I think it is the same radio as
King KY-97A.
Perhaps this is worth comment, should someone buy Icom on
that basis. I've not run across something like that.
Besides complicating the FAA approval process, even a
digital-display comm is simple enough to implement, Icom
shouldn't need King's help in design nor actually pay them
for it. Nor would King be interested at all, I'd think.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike Ferrer" <mike@ferrer-aviation.com>
If you had an Icom handheld, you could use this...
http://www.pacific-coast-avionics.com/detail.asp?id=4024
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> ...speaking to your example of using a handheld COMM with an external
> antenna.
>
> What is the slick or cleverest method today for un-coupling, example,
panel
> mount, COMM 2 from it's external antenna and connecting a handheld to the
> same external antenna?
>
> This would be useful; if the main electrical or COMM's failed, or, if you
> stuck in Parking or similar waiting for a clearance or other instructions.
> Beats having your main electrical system hot and/or your engine idling for
> long periods.
>
> I have seen the antenna feed come out to the front panel and then back in
> via BNC "U" shaped short cable. The antenna side can be unconnected and
the
> hand held plugged in. But, is there a more clever, cleaner way of doing
the
> same??
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ROBINFLY@aol.com>
> To: <avionics-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
>
>
> > --> Avionics-List message posted by: ROBINFLY@aol.com
> >
> > What is your budget? Are you IFR or VFR? Do you need IFR GPS, ADF or
> > DME?
> > If you are VFR only with very low budget, I will set priority as: COMM,
> > transponder, GPS, intercom, audio panel, then VOR/ILS. Use portable
> > equipments when
> > possible (ie, GPS, intercom, Comm, traffic)
> >
> > Icom A200 is nice, and I think it is the same radio as King KY-97A. If
> > you
> > want VOR, King KX-125 is a very good value with more features than
KX-155;
> > it
> > has a built-in CDI, that alone will save you big money on both equipment
&
> > installation. But why use VOR for VFR when a $500 aviation GPS offers
> > much more?
> >
> > For #2 comm, a nice handheld with external antenna and wiring to audio
> > offers
> > more than a 2nd panel mount because if you need it for emergency, it is
> > already there. For many years, I have used a Icom A23 as my 2nd comm.
I
> > got looks
> > from other pilots but with external antenna, it is always loud and clear
> > everywhere I go. I cannot see any performance difference comparing with
> > my panel
> > mount.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
I think Bob Nuckolls had an article on a device that performs a similar function.
IIRC it was a stereo jack the plugged in to your panel - the panel receptacle breaks
the original connection and reroutes to what you just jacked in
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ferrer <mike@ferrer-aviation.com>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike Ferrer" <mike@ferrer-aviation.com>
If you had an Icom handheld, you could use this...
http://www.pacific-coast-avionics.com/detail.asp?id=4024
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> ...speaking to your example of using a handheld COMM with an external
> antenna.
>
> What is the slick or cleverest method today for un-coupling, example,
panel
> mount, COMM 2 from it's external antenna and connecting a handheld to the
> same external antenna?
>
> This would be useful; if the main electrical or COMM's failed, or, if you
> stuck in Parking or similar waiting for a clearance or other instructions.
> Beats having your main electrical system hot and/or your engine idling for
> long periods.
>
> I have seen the antenna feed come out to the front panel and then back in
> via BNC "U" shaped short cable. The antenna side can be unconnected and
the
> hand held plugged in. But, is there a more clever, cleaner way of doing
the
> same??
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ROBINFLY@aol.com>
> To: <avionics-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
>
>
> > --> Avionics-List message posted by: ROBINFLY@aol.com
> >
> > What is your budget? Are you IFR or VFR? Do you need IFR GPS, ADF or
> > DME?
> > If you are VFR only with very low budget, I will set priority as: COMM,
> > transponder, GPS, intercom, audio panel, then VOR/ILS. Use portable
> > equipments when
> > possible (ie, GPS, intercom, Comm, traffic)
> >
> > Icom A200 is nice, and I think it is the same radio as King KY-97A. If
> > you
> > want VOR, King KX-125 is a very good value with more features than
KX-155;
> > it
> > has a built-in CDI, that alone will save you big money on both equipment
&
> > installation. But why use VOR for VFR when a $500 aviation GPS offers
> > much more?
> >
> > For #2 comm, a nice handheld with external antenna and wiring to audio
> > offers
> > more than a 2nd panel mount because if you need it for emergency, it is
> > already there. For many years, I have used a Icom A23 as my 2nd comm.
I
> > got looks
> > from other pilots but with external antenna, it is always loud and clear
> > everywhere I go. I cannot see any performance difference comparing with
> > my panel
> > mount.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
Thank you both for the antenna coupling suggestions.
Seems they are both the same answer...one home built and the other manuf.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"
> <recapen@earthlink.net>
>
> I think Bob Nuckolls had an article on a device that performs a similar
> function.
>
> IIRC it was a stereo jack the plugged in to your panel - the panel
> receptacle breaks the original connection and reroutes to what you just
> jacked in
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Ferrer <mike@ferrer-aviation.com>
> To: avionics-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike Ferrer"
> <mike@ferrer-aviation.com>
>
> If you had an Icom handheld, you could use this...
> http://www.pacific-coast-avionics.com/detail.asp?id=4024
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
> To: <avionics-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
>
>
>> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>>
>> ...speaking to your example of using a handheld COMM with an external
>> antenna.
>>
>> What is the slick or cleverest method today for un-coupling, example,
> panel
>> mount, COMM 2 from it's external antenna and connecting a handheld to the
>> same external antenna?
>>
>> This would be useful; if the main electrical or COMM's failed, or, if you
>> stuck in Parking or similar waiting for a clearance or other
>> instructions.
>> Beats having your main electrical system hot and/or your engine idling
>> for
>> long periods.
>>
>> I have seen the antenna feed come out to the front panel and then back in
>> via BNC "U" shaped short cable. The antenna side can be unconnected and
> the
>> hand held plugged in. But, is there a more clever, cleaner way of doing
> the
>> same??
>> David
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <ROBINFLY@aol.com>
>> To: <avionics-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
>>
>>
>> > --> Avionics-List message posted by: ROBINFLY@aol.com
>> >
>> > What is your budget? Are you IFR or VFR? Do you need IFR GPS, ADF or
>> > DME?
>> > If you are VFR only with very low budget, I will set priority as: COMM,
>> > transponder, GPS, intercom, audio panel, then VOR/ILS. Use portable
>> > equipments when
>> > possible (ie, GPS, intercom, Comm, traffic)
>> >
>> > Icom A200 is nice, and I think it is the same radio as King KY-97A. If
>> > you
>> > want VOR, King KX-125 is a very good value with more features than
> KX-155;
>> > it
>> > has a built-in CDI, that alone will save you big money on both
>> > equipment
> &
>> > installation. But why use VOR for VFR when a $500 aviation GPS offers
>> > much more?
>> >
>> > For #2 comm, a nice handheld with external antenna and wiring to audio
>> > offers
>> > more than a 2nd panel mount because if you need it for emergency, it is
>> > already there. For many years, I have used a Icom A23 as my 2nd comm.
> I
>> > got looks
>> > from other pilots but with external antenna, it is always loud and
>> > clear
>> > everywhere I go. I cannot see any performance difference comparing
>> > with
>> > my panel
>> > mount.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Anyone out there? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
Bruce,
Most of the heavy iron glass cockpit redundancy is there for dispatch
reliabilty, not because the glass fails frequently. The multuple power
sources are in place as you say but again I believe they are there to enable
dispatch with a generator inop and also to give the Cat II and III landing
capability that the airliners need occationally.
I personally feel glass is the future and we are fortunate to have an
opportunity to be on the leading edge of what will certainly be the norm in
a few years.
Jim Stone
BTW. I went with the GRT EFIS with a pictorial turn and bank and Digiflight
II VS , and used two power sources for the EFIS for my reduncy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Subject: RE: Avionics-List: Anyone out there?
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
>
> Unless you really have big bucks or don't plan on flying IFR, I'd avoid a
> glass panel.
>
> Why? Safety. Look at any heavy metal glass panel. Duel independent
> (including dual AHRS) EFIS systems. They even have a 3rd tie breaker steam
> gage ADI. All of that redundancy is necessary to insure you have safe
> failure modes.
>
> OK, you only have one pilot but you still need 3 independent attitude
> systems. You're flying along shooting your local ILS in bad (200 - 1/2)
> weather. At 400 AGL you notice your fancy EFIS telling you you're nose
> high,
> your standby vacuum/electric ADI says nose low. What are you going to do?
> Which one is right?
>
> We know the failure modes of steam gages, the standard 6-pack has been
> developed with independent sources and any discrepancy is readily noticed.
> Not so with EFIS. Those black boxes have some strange failure modes. Hence
> the FAA requirement for duel systems in part 121 operations.
>
> Now if I were bound and determined to fly a glass panel, I'd stick with
> CERTIFIED equipment (Garmin, Chelton, or Avidyne) and put in 2 additional
> ADI systems. When I made my decisions last year I decided to go with the
> Sandel EHSI, PN101 (Second HSI and #2 nav head), vacuum ADI and electric
> T&B
> (came with the STEC 55X A/P). If I were to do it today, I'd use the
> certified Chelton system, a second vacuum attitude indicator, an electric
> T&B, and a second ASI and altimeter.
>
> I wonder how many pilots are going to fly that hypnotic Garmin 1000 screen
> right into the ground before we wise up.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> springcanyon
> To: avionics-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Avionics-List: Anyone out there?
>
>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "springcanyon"
> <springcanyon@mymethow.com>
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> Yes, Im here just dont have much to write about yet. Im at
> the serious thinking about the panel stage. Im looking toward the GRT
> EFIS system, but dont quite know how to fill in around it yet.
>
> Don Owens
> Spring Canyon Ranch
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
What is available for a handheld nav/com. I have an old Icom A20. Would like
to use as a backup to my Icom panel mount radio. Can I just use it for comm or
can I get the Nav to work too? I have GPS and Loran for nav functions.
Bob Spudis
CH-701/912S
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "John Rippengal" <j.rippengal@cytanet.com.cy>
If you only want to use the handheld while waiting for clearance then just
use the rubber duck antenna.
Best overall solution is to have two comm antennas;
your handheld will then have almost as good a range
as the panel mount.
John
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> ...speaking to your example of using a handheld COMM with an external
> antenna.
>
> What is the slick or cleverest method today for un-coupling, example,
> panel
> mount, COMM 2 from it's external antenna and connecting a handheld to the
> same external antenna?
>
> This would be useful; if the main electrical or COMM's failed, or, if you
> stuck in Parking or similar waiting for a clearance or other instructions.
> Beats having your main electrical system hot and/or your engine idling for
> long periods.
>
> I have seen the antenna feed come out to the front panel and then back in
> via BNC "U" shaped short cable. The antenna side can be unconnected and
> the
> hand held plugged in. But, is there a more clever, cleaner way of doing
> the
> same??
> David
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
John,
I don't really want to install a 3rd antenna up top.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rippengal" <j.rippengal@cytanet.com.cy>
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Anybody out there???
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "John Rippengal"
> <j.rippengal@cytanet.com.cy>
>
> If you only want to use the handheld while waiting for clearance then just
> use the rubber duck antenna.
> Best overall solution is to have two comm antennas;
> your handheld will then have almost as good a range
> as the panel mount.
> John
> From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>
>
>> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>>
>> ...speaking to your example of using a handheld COMM with an external
>> antenna.
>>
>> What is the slick or cleverest method today for un-coupling, example,
>> panel
>> mount, COMM 2 from it's external antenna and connecting a handheld to the
>> same external antenna?
>>
>> This would be useful; if the main electrical or COMM's failed, or, if you
>> stuck in Parking or similar waiting for a clearance or other
>> instructions.
>> Beats having your main electrical system hot and/or your engine idling
>> for
>> long periods.
>>
>> I have seen the antenna feed come out to the front panel and then back in
>> via BNC "U" shaped short cable. The antenna side can be unconnected and
>> the
>> hand held plugged in. But, is there a more clever, cleaner way of doing
>> the
>> same??
>> David
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
> If you
>want VOR, King KX-125 is a very good value with more features than KX-155; it
>has a built-in CDI, that alone will save you big money on both equipment &
>installation.
>
>
I would meanwhile advice against that Nav-Com (out of experience against
everything from King), my unit lost the Nav part quite soon as I was out
of guarantee (I bought a year before first flight) the repair cost were
immense (>1300$). If you want to add GS later it will be more expensive
then an Apollo/Garmin SL-30 which has more nice features (built-in
Intercom, standby freq monitoring, cross pointer etc), much more modern
technics (software driven) and the repairs (if they ever happen) are
much more moderate (global rate if defect for each equipment (e.g. ~600$
for a GNS430)
Werner (now SL-30)
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Bob,
I have my A20 connected into my GMA 340 audio pannel, I did need an
interfacebox in order to get it working with the PTT (can supply address
and price). The Nav part does work in principle, however due to the
antenna optimized for the com it's not optimal. But it was a good way to
test if my KX-125 was the problem or the Antenna (it was the bloody KX-125).
br
Werner
NYTerminat@aol.com wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: NYTerminat@aol.com
>
>What is available for a handheld nav/com. I have an old Icom A20. Would like
>to use as a backup to my Icom panel mount radio. Can I just use it for comm or
>can I get the Nav to work too? I have GPS and Loran for nav functions.
>
>Bob Spudis
>
>CH-701/912S
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody out there??? |
--> Avionics-List message posted by: "John Rippengal" <j.rippengal@cytanet.com.cy>
Can understand that. My perspective was from a glass homebuilt - Rutan
Defiant - where you can mount any number of antennas internally. I had a
Jim Weir dipole with one leg across the top of the fuselage and the other
leg down the side. That way I got both vertical and horizontal polarisation
for an Icom A20 so both comm and VOR worked quite well; plus of course a
comm antenna in each winglet and nav on each side of the canard. All buried
in the glass of course.
John
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
> --> Avionics-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@charter.net>
>
> John,
> I don't really want to install a 3rd antenna up top.
> David
>
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