---------------------------------------------------------- Avionics-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/11/06: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:24 AM - Re: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options (John Richardson) 2. 11:31 AM - Re: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options (Mike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:05 AM PST US From: "John Richardson" Subject: RE: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "John Richardson" One last go-around on the Chelton system interfacing with the Garmin 480. I spoke with Josh at Direct to Avionics. Josh works with Peter and Kirk to answer technical questions at Direct to avionics and they sell the Chelton "Sport" and Chelton "Pro" systems to the experimental aircraft market. Josh confirmed the Chelton "Sport" system does not interface with the Garmin 480, even though it has a serial bus like the SL-30. Complete SL-30 functionality is not available on the 480 serial bus (unfortunately). As an alternative, the Garmin 430 can partially interface with the Chelton "Sport" via an ARINC 429 converter. I'm not sure what functionality is missing when interfacing with a Garmin 430. The Chelton "Pro" system does interface completely with the Garmin 480. I've seen this system and it is very impressive. When connected to a 480 and SL-30, the "Pro" HSI shows two bearing pointers for Nav1 and Nav2 with switching to select between Nav1 or Nav2 for the CDI and OBS. The "Pro" system is about twice the price of the "Sport" system. I only saw one Pro system at Lancair avionics and it was going into a Lancair IV turbine aircraft. In my previous discussions regarding interfacing a Chelton system with the Garmin 480, I was referring to the Chelton "Sport" system which most experimental aircraft builders choose if they go for a Chelton system. I believe it's price is around $25K (two displays) and the "Pro" system is around $50K. Hope this level of detail helps. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Thanks John Richardson Lancair Legacy builder Spokane WA -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: RE: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike" Chris, Just to clear up something John wrote that is incorrect about the statement " The Chelton can not even display nav data (like localizer / glide slope or VOR) from the480." This statement is incorrect. The 480 has the same output provided on the SL-30/SL-40 located on page D-23 if the installation manual. The 480 was the UPS CNX-80 designed by UPS the same folks that created the SL30/40. So in short you can display and control navigation function for ILS/LOC/VOR on the Chelton through a serial data bus. Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Richardson Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: RE: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "John Richardson" Chris >From what I've learned building my Lancair Legacy and going around with Direct to Avionics (Chelton rep to experimental) the Chelton system does not interface with the Garmin 480....only the SL-30/SL-40 via serial bus. Most panels I see at Lancair that are using the Chelton system rely on the FreeFlight GPS and flight planning is done in the Chelton user interface. A 480 or 430 is back-up only. Seems like a bit of a waste. The Chelton can not even display nav data (like localizer / glide slope or VOR) from the 480. I love the 480 and have decided to go with Grand Rapids interfacing to the 480 and SL-30. Flight planning will be done on the 480 and the Grand Rapids unit will display the whole flight path with the current leg colored magenta. HSI will show both Nav 1 and Nav2 in different colors. And with Chelton, I also miss the "pan". On the 480, you can scroll ahead of your current location to look at airspace ahead or on either side of your flight path and get data on "nearest" waypoints to the pan location. The Chelton screen is beautiful with very high resolution and good sunlight visibility. It's nice to have all these choices. Regards John Richardson Spokane WA -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris In Madison Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" Hello all, I've been following Tim Olson's RV-10 project for a while and he uses a GNS-480 in his panel in addition to the built-in GPS of the Pinpoint GADHRS. >From what I read, the 480 pretty much sits dormant in the background while the built-in GPS does most of the work. Presumably, the 480 is there because it's the only IFR-certified GPS of the Garmin line (and in his plane). Presuming someone was to use the FreeFlight GPS option to meet the IFR requirements, would one be losing any functionality that the 480 offers? I've gone through a majority of the feature/operation videos on the Chelton site, and the system is really thorough in its navigation options, flight planning, etc. Would a pilot miss not having a 480 in the panel by relying on the Chelton, or are they similarly capable? I do see the benefit of having the 480 as a GPS backup in case of EFIS/FreeFlight failure, to be sure, but thought I'd pose the question. I suppose there's always the tried-and-true radio navigation as well :-) Thanks and best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60403#60403 -- -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:35 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike" John, This is true for full function as listed in the Chelton Pro operator manual, but you still get basic function with the 480 such as auto tune and VOR/LOC/GS from ONE radio on the RS232 if selected. You will not get function like the pro on two radios independently. The 480 does put out on a 232 line the data for VOR/LOC/GS. I'm not sure if the 480 provides you with TIS data from the GTX-330. I just looked it up and the information in Appendix B of the Garmin 480 installation manual states the function I listed. To be clear, the Pro system can differentiate between multiple input and outputs for VOR and auto tuning, the sport can not. If you are only using ONE external radio for these functions, based on what I just read the Garmin 480 does support these ASCII Binary data lines like the SL30 and 40. My personal experience with the CNX-80 uses RS232 for this information with the MX-20 but I think that it uses a proprietary language when talking to the MX20. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Richardson Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: RE: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "John Richardson" One last go-around on the Chelton system interfacing with the Garmin 480. I spoke with Josh at Direct to Avionics. Josh works with Peter and Kirk to answer technical questions at Direct to avionics and they sell the Chelton "Sport" and Chelton "Pro" systems to the experimental aircraft market. Josh confirmed the Chelton "Sport" system does not interface with the Garmin 480, even though it has a serial bus like the SL-30. Complete SL-30 functionality is not available on the 480 serial bus (unfortunately). As an alternative, the Garmin 430 can partially interface with the Chelton "Sport" via an ARINC 429 converter. I'm not sure what functionality is missing when interfacing with a Garmin 430. The Chelton "Pro" system does interface completely with the Garmin 480. I've seen this system and it is very impressive. When connected to a 480 and SL-30, the "Pro" HSI shows two bearing pointers for Nav1 and Nav2 with switching to select between Nav1 or Nav2 for the CDI and OBS. The "Pro" system is about twice the price of the "Sport" system. I only saw one Pro system at Lancair avionics and it was going into a Lancair IV turbine aircraft. In my previous discussions regarding interfacing a Chelton system with the Garmin 480, I was referring to the Chelton "Sport" system which most experimental aircraft builders choose if they go for a Chelton system. I believe it's price is around $25K (two displays) and the "Pro" system is around $50K. Hope this level of detail helps. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Thanks John Richardson Lancair Legacy builder Spokane WA -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: RE: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Mike" Chris, Just to clear up something John wrote that is incorrect about the statement " The Chelton can not even display nav data (like localizer / glide slope or VOR) from the480." This statement is incorrect. The 480 has the same output provided on the SL-30/SL-40 located on page D-23 if the installation manual. The 480 was the UPS CNX-80 designed by UPS the same folks that created the SL30/40. So in short you can display and control navigation function for ILS/LOC/VOR on the Chelton through a serial data bus. Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Richardson Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: RE: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "John Richardson" Chris >From what I've learned building my Lancair Legacy and going around with Direct to Avionics (Chelton rep to experimental) the Chelton system does not interface with the Garmin 480....only the SL-30/SL-40 via serial bus. Most panels I see at Lancair that are using the Chelton system rely on the FreeFlight GPS and flight planning is done in the Chelton user interface. A 480 or 430 is back-up only. Seems like a bit of a waste. The Chelton can not even display nav data (like localizer / glide slope or VOR) from the 480. I love the 480 and have decided to go with Grand Rapids interfacing to the 480 and SL-30. Flight planning will be done on the 480 and the Grand Rapids unit will display the whole flight path with the current leg colored magenta. HSI will show both Nav 1 and Nav2 in different colors. And with Chelton, I also miss the "pan". On the 480, you can scroll ahead of your current location to look at airspace ahead or on either side of your flight path and get data on "nearest" waypoints to the pan location. The Chelton screen is beautiful with very high resolution and good sunlight visibility. It's nice to have all these choices. Regards John Richardson Spokane WA -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris In Madison Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: Avionics-List: FAO Chelton users: outboard GPS options --> Avionics-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" Hello all, I've been following Tim Olson's RV-10 project for a while and he uses a GNS-480 in his panel in addition to the built-in GPS of the Pinpoint GADHRS. >From what I read, the 480 pretty much sits dormant in the background while the built-in GPS does most of the work. Presumably, the 480 is there because it's the only IFR-certified GPS of the Garmin line (and in his plane). Presuming someone was to use the FreeFlight GPS option to meet the IFR requirements, would one be losing any functionality that the 480 offers? I've gone through a majority of the feature/operation videos on the Chelton site, and the system is really thorough in its navigation options, flight planning, etc. Would a pilot miss not having a 480 in the panel by relying on the Chelton, or are they similarly capable? I do see the benefit of having the 480 as a GPS backup in case of EFIS/FreeFlight failure, to be sure, but thought I'd pose the question. I suppose there's always the tried-and-true radio navigation as well :-) Thanks and best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60403#60403 -- -- -- --