Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:50 AM - GRT GPS TSO ()
2. 09:49 AM - ABEA and TSO's ()
3. 12:57 PM - Re: ICOM push to talk switch (Dale Walter)
4. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: ICOM push to talk switch (Noel Loveys)
5. 06:57 PM - Re: GRT GPS TSO (W J R HAMILTON)
Message 1
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1/8/2006
Hello Bret, You quote GRT as writing: "The new RAIM-equipped version
provides integrity
monitoring and 5 updates per second to meet the requirements of IFR GPS TSO
C129 and C146."
This sounds like some subtle weasel wording to me. A piece of equipment
either meets the full TSO requirements and is marked TSO compliant or it is
not TSO'd.
The manufacturer does not get to cherry pick certain standards within the
TSO, or its references, just meet certain standards, and then mark the
equipment as TSO'd.
Most manufacturers who have gone to the expense and effort of obtaining TSO
approval for a piece of equipment are very eager to make that approval and
marking very evident to any prospective purchaser.
OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
On 5 Jan 2007, at 22:05, Bret Smith wrote:
> <smithhb@tds.net>
>
> See http://www.grtavionics.com/documents/Horizon%20System%20Flyer.pdf
>
> "The addition of the internal GPS receiver eliminates the need for an
> external
> GPS, or may be used as a backup to your primary GPS. Available in two
> versions. The standard WAAS GPS module is perfect for VFR use, or
> as backup
> to an external GPS. The new RAIM-equipped version provides integrity
> monitoring and 5 updates per second to meet the requirements of IFR
> GPS
> TSO C129 and C146."
>
> Standard WAAS GPS Receiver with antenna $450
> RAIM-Equipped WAAS GPS Receiver with antenna $750
>
>
> Bret Smith
> RV-9A (91314)
> Mineral Bluff, GA
> www.FlightInnovations.com
>
Message 2
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1/8/2007
Hello Old Bob, You wrote: "I am definitely stepping out from my area of
expertise here, but is a TSO required for operations of a home built
aircraft?"
I believe that a narrow legalistic response to your question is "No, because
there are no published certification standards that ABEA's (Amateur Built
Experimental Aircraft) are required to meet."
But in a real world practical sense there are some operations that ABEA's
participate in that require them to interface with other aircraft or
facilities and those operations require compatibility with published
standards established for those other entities.
Compatibility could conceivably be achieved by individually creating
equipment equivalent to a published standard, but the practicality of such
creation is, in most cases, very remote.**
In the postings copied below the operation at issue is GPS requirements for
IFR operations. Here is just one extract (others may be found) from chapter
1-1-19 in the current edition of the AIM:
"g. Equipment and Database Requirements
1. Authorization to fly approaches under IFR using GPS avionics systems
requires that:
(a) A pilot use GPS avionics with TSO- C129, or equivalent, authorization in
class A1, B1, B3, C1, or C3; and"
I understand that the AIM is not regulatory in nature, but I believe that an
ABEA pilot having flown a GPS approach under IFR, and being called to
account by the FAA or the NTSB for some sort of deviation or improper
performance on his part would have a very difficult time convincing the
authorities that his non TSO'd GPS equipment should be entirely acceptable
to them.
So the prudent ABEA builder / pilot does his homework and equips his
aircraft so that it will perform in a manner that will not endanger him or
others. If TSO'd equipment is the best way to accomplish that goal then his
choice should be clear to him.
OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
**PS: One notable exception is in the arena of external lighting where some
innovative LED equipment may, in fact, be superior to the TSO requirements.
But proving that superiority and getting an initial airworthiness inspector
of an ABEA to accept the equipment (if he chooses to make it an issue) may
be a problem.
----------------------- COPIED POSTINGS FOLLOW -----------------
Time: 06:53:45 AM PST US
From: BobsV35B@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 91.205 (WAAS)
Good Morning Kevin,
I am definitely stepping out from my area of expertise here, but is a TSO
required for operations of a home built aircraft?
It isn't even required for all operations of certificated aircraft.
The determination of the equipment that is required for IFR flight appears
to be left up to the operator. As long as the operator determines that the
equipment meets the standards required for IFR flight, the stuff should be
acceptable.
What do you feel is required?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/6/2007 6:26:49 A.M. Central Standard Time,
khorton01@rogers.com writes:
I'd ask to see a copy of the letters from the FAA that confirm the
TSOs have been issued.
Kevin Horton
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: ICOM push to talk switch |
Greetings,
Can anyone tell me how to make a PTT switch for my handheld?
I just bought an Icom A24. It came with a headset adapter. I tried to make a
simple push to talk switch. That did not work, may have bungled it up. I
thought all I needed was a 1/8 inch plug connected to a spring button switch
to close 2 wires. It appeared to work. Seemed like the outlet for the PTT
was defective because if I put a slight pressure on the plug it made a
noise. So I did exploratory surgery, could not tell if outlet for PTT was
bad, molded rubber design blocked view of details. But I did see 3 wires
(red, blue, white) going in and only expected 2. I amputated what was left
of PTT outlet. The female outlet for the mic is fine, and I have access to
those wires as the outlet is 2 piece closed with simple nut & bolt. Inside
are 3 wires; red, blue, white. Is it possible to wire up a PTT without too
much complexity?
Thanks,
Dale
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: ICOM push to talk switch |
All you need is the 1/8" jack that fits into the PTT ( push to talk input
jack) and a N.O. (Normally Open) momentary switch. Parts could be
relatively expensive.... maybe $4.00 at the local electronics shop so save
up. ;-) There is no polarity to worry about. If you use a shielded wire you
can use the shield to the ring side of the jack and the centre conductor to
the tip of the jack.
I have that system with the same radio in my plane... Works like a charm.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Dale Walter
> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:23 PM
> To: avionics-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Avionics-List: RE: ICOM push to talk switch
>
>
> <dale1rv6@comcast.net>
>
>
> Greetings,
> Can anyone tell me how to make a PTT switch for my handheld?
>
> I just bought an Icom A24. It came with a headset adapter. I
> tried to make a
> simple push to talk switch. That did not work, may have
> bungled it up. I
> thought all I needed was a 1/8 inch plug connected to a
> spring button switch
> to close 2 wires. It appeared to work. Seemed like the outlet
> for the PTT
> was defective because if I put a slight pressure on the plug it made a
> noise. So I did exploratory surgery, could not tell if outlet
> for PTT was
> bad, molded rubber design blocked view of details. But I did
> see 3 wires
> (red, blue, white) going in and only expected 2. I amputated
> what was left
> of PTT outlet. The female outlet for the mic is fine, and I
> have access to
> those wires as the outlet is 2 piece closed with simple nut &
> bolt. Inside
> are 3 wires; red, blue, white. Is it possible to wire up a
> PTT without too
> much complexity?
> Thanks,
> Dale
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Folks,
There seems to be some confusion on standards here.
RAIM is only applicable to C129 GPS engines, when used as "stand
alone" units (ie: not as part of a full FMCS system as installed in
larger aircraft, giving a navigation capability semi-independent of
RAIM, such as IRS to cover short term signal outages).
A major aim of the C145/146 RTCA docs. is to eliminate the
shortcomings of the RAIM system, ie: when RAIM is lost the navigation
function is lost, not something desirable with sole source navigation.
There are serious shortcomings with the way the TSO is written, it is
not outcome based, but very prescriptive of process, and allows
little room for alternative means of compliance with the TSO, hence
the limited choice and very high price of C145/146.
As to TSO's, they are not necessarily a "one stop shop", but go in
"steps and stages".
WAAS is another matter altogether, used to improve the derived
position accuracy.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 03:47 AM 9/01/2007, you wrote:
>
>1/8/2006
>
>Hello Bret, You quote GRT as writing: "The new RAIM-equipped version
>provides integrity
>monitoring and 5 updates per second to meet the requirements of IFR
>GPS TSO C129 and C146."
>
>This sounds like some subtle weasel wording to me. A piece of
>equipment either meets the full TSO requirements and is marked TSO
>compliant or it is not TSO'd.
>
>The manufacturer does not get to cherry pick certain standards
>within the TSO, or its references, just meet certain standards, and
>then mark the equipment as TSO'd.
>
>Most manufacturers who have gone to the expense and effort of
>obtaining TSO approval for a piece of equipment are very eager to
>make that approval and marking very evident to any prospective purchaser.
>
>OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
>
>On 5 Jan 2007, at 22:05, Bret Smith wrote:
>
>><smithhb@tds.net>
>>
>>See http://www.grtavionics.com/documents/Horizon%20System%20Flyer.pdf
>>
>>"The addition of the internal GPS receiver eliminates the need for an
>>external
>>GPS, or may be used as a backup to your primary GPS. Available in two
>>versions. The standard WAAS GPS module is perfect for VFR use, or
>>as backup
>>to an external GPS. The new RAIM-equipped version provides integrity
>>monitoring and 5 updates per second to meet the requirements of IFR
>>GPS
>>TSO C129 and C146."
>>
>>Standard WAAS GPS Receiver with antenna $450
>>RAIM-Equipped WAAS GPS Receiver with antenna $750
>>
>>
>>Bret Smith
>>RV-9A (91314)
>>Mineral Bluff, GA
>>www.FlightInnovations.com
>
>
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