---------------------------------------------------------- Avionics-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/09/07: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:56 AM - Re: comm tx causing avionics fluctuations (jetboy) 2. 06:54 AM - Re: comm tx causing avionics fluctuations (Noel Loveys) 3. 08:48 AM - Re: comm tx causing avionics fluctuations (John Rippengal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:00 AM PST US Subject: Avionics-List: Re: comm tx causing avionics fluctuations From: "jetboy" Apart from the previous advice: antenna far away and SWR checked, you may need to fit ferrite beads to some of your instrument wiring. Try the clip over style from electronics parts stores, particularly around temp. sensor cable at instrument end and far end. Also better to stay with normal grade coax, the greater loss actually helps the VSWR match and lowers the power radiated into your instruments. A similar method is used in many certified com antennas, a 12.5 ohm resistor is built inside the base so you loose about 2 watts power ( not significant in radio terms) but get a good 50 ohm match over the relatively wide com range. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=138927#138927 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:07 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Avionics-List: comm tx causing avionics fluctuations Tom: Just a few Ideas. Just as the radiating element of your antenna should be 1/4 wave length the ground plane should also be at least that size. If it isn't don't worry you can stick a ground plane inside your fuselage with contact cement using aluminium foil for the ground plane itself. Make sure it is connected to the braid side of the coax at the antenna end. The ground plane should also be as close as reasonably possible to perpendicular to the radiating element. The advice you got to check out your antenna system sounds good to me. Transmitters aren't too bright and when you feed their output to a miss-matched antenna system the fool transmitter works harder to get the signal out. This means it draws a lot more current and of course heats up. The end result can be a burned out final amplifier (expensive) or a popped circuit breaker. (Cheap if you don't reset it) Most of the other things you mentioned can be easily attributed to the same antenna problem. High current draw by the transmitter will cause the voltage regulator to cut in possibly to the point before an over voltage indication.... BTW you generally get that OV indication after the alternator has been shut down to protect it. It just crossed my mind that I have seen high draw on a transmitter. It occurred when there was a crack in the centre conductor inside the coax to the antenna. Do a continuity test on the centre conductor of the coax. When you do that continuity test try wiggling the connectors while hooked up to the VOM. Your problem can also be caused by a cold solder joint or a bad crimp in a connector. Finally my pet peeve is bad grounds. Aircraft electrical systems need to have as close to perfect ground as possible. You would be surprised the effect of a bit of black corrosion under the grounding strap that connects your engine to the frame across the engine mount will have on your whole system. Make sure any grounding straps are clean under the nuts/bolts that connect them to the various parts of the frame. Make sure there is good continuity from the grounding posts behind your instrument panel to the engine block. Also make sure the voltage regulator is mounted on a clean surface. Many newer solid state regulators require the case have a good ground. You may want to borrow another transmitter and temporarily connect it to your antenna system and the AC power. If you get the same effect on transmit then you will know for sure it is your installation and not the transmitter itself. The advice to get your antenna system checked out is capitol. Avionics techs have equipment that can do amazing things. Ten minutes on a Cushman could end up saving many $$ chasing a problem. To recap: *Put your antenna system under the microscope. That's probably where your problem is located. *Check the continuity of all grounding straps. a good idea to check on an annual basis. *If possible try another transmitter (not a hand held) in your plane You only need to connect the antenna and aircraft power and see if you get the same problem. If this doesn't fix the problem then you are going to have to get some local expertise... Preferably with equipment. Good places to look for help are Telco, Amateur radio, Television stations. Only certified avionics shops should open avionics cases or make modifications to avionics systems. You should keep that in mind if you have a certified plane. Where do you keep your plane?? if at YHZ you may want to contact Uli Huber at Atlantic AV in Springfield he has technicians who should be able to get you going in short order...... Bring money ;-) Hope this helps. Noel Loveys, RPP, AME intern Campbellton, Newfoundland, Canada Tel: 709-261-2705 noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Goddard Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 10:09 PM Subject: Avionics-List: comm tx causing avionics fluctuations Does any one have experience with comm tx causing transient changes in their engine analyzers egt/cht and voltages in glasairs or other fiberglass airframes? As we continue to debug our panel this problem is now up for a solution. I have heard that it may be "antenna standing wave reflections"? Our vert servo on the TruTrak is affected during Tx as well. We assumed that the other systems being affected were due to the close proximity of the comm antenna coax and the aircraft charging system as they all run through the center console of our Glasair III for a short distance in close proximity. Maybe I am wrong and it is more to do with the Standing Wave Reflection? Our other bugs caused by the comm. Tx are: 1. transient voltage rise on both buses from 14.1 to 14.6 (this is a real voltage change measured by and external meter) 2. egt and cht values decrease by 300 and 100 degrees F respectively (these are obviously not real temp changes) 3. Ray Allan trim and flap indicators flicker (the trim and flaps don't actually move) The following is something Tim Hedding of B&C alternators sent me: 1. Check the transmitting antenna systems for SWR. Check that the antenna, transmission line and transmitter output are of the same impedance and that the connections and ground planes are good. Use an SWR bridge or antenna analyzer to check the antenna system matching / efficiency. There must be some other glass airplanes out there that have seen some of these quirks. Tom Tom Goddard 100 Miner Lane Grand Pre, N.S. B0P 1M0 9026702511 Cell 9025427315 Fax 08/10/2007 9:04 AM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:29 AM PST US From: "John Rippengal" Subject: Re: Avionics-List: comm tx causing avionics fluctuations Tom, Not only did you not say where your antenna was mounted , you also did not say what type of antenna you were using. I note some various advice tweaking this and that but you have to realise before you do anything that you have a gross error in your installation. This could be be the antenna mounted right near the instrument panel or using completely the wrong type of antenna, or trying to use a monopole antenna in a plastic aeroplane without using a metal ground plane of at least 2 or 3 feet diameter, or failing to connect the coax plugs correctly so there was no proper connection etc etc. Your whole panel seems to be alive with RF energy so don't try tweaking this and that until you have found out where the really gross error is. John Does any one have experience with comm tx causing transient changes in their engine analyzers egt/cht and voltages in glasairs or other fiberglass airframes? As we continue to debug our panel this problem is now up for a solution. I have heard that it may be "antenna standing wave reflections"? Our vert servo on the TruTrak is affected during Tx as well. We assumed that the other systems being affected were due to the close proximity of the comm antenna coax and the aircraft charging system as they all run through the center console of our Glasair III for a short distance in close proximity. Maybe I am wrong and it is more to do with the Standing Wave Reflection? Our other bugs caused by the comm. Tx are: 1. transient voltage rise on both buses from 14.1 to 14.6 (this is a real voltage change measured by and external meter) 2. egt and cht values decrease by 300 and 100 degrees F respectively (these are obviously not real temp changes) 3. Ray Allan trim and flap indicators flicker (the trim and flaps don't actually move) The following is something Tim Hedding of B&C alternators sent me: 1. Check the transmitting antenna systems for SWR. Check that the antenna, transmission line and transmitter output are of the same impedance and that the connections and ground planes are good. Use an SWR bridge or antenna analyzer to check the antenna system matching / efficiency. There must be some other glass airplanes out there that have seen some of these quirks. Tom Tom Goddard 100 Miner Lane Grand Pre, N.S. B0P 1M0 9026702511 Cell 9025427315 Fax 08/10/2007 9:04 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message avionics-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Avionics-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/avionics-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/avionics-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.