Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:02 AM - [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle? (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:50 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Charles Reiche)
2. 04:19 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Vincent Palermo)
3. 06:09 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Richard T. Schaefer)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: GPS Antenna (Noel R. C. Loveys)
5. 06:20 AM - Truax Corporation in Florida (Don Curry)
6. 06:42 AM - Re: Truax Corporation in Florida (Harley)
7. 03:14 PM - Re-GPS Antenna Coax Length (Wayne Sweet)
8. 04:15 PM - Re: Re-GPS Antenna Coax Length (Richard T. Schaefer)
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| Subject: | [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt |
Dralle?
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for nearly 25 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during that time, along with some embedded system
development as well.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a quad-processor Xeon Linux server for
List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage! This entire system is protected
by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that
assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking
of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One
month last Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Last year I added another rack to
house the MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first
rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is
supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
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Won't you please take a moment to make a Contribution to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
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There are some great gifts available with qualifying Contribution levels too!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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You have not had a WAAS 430 for 4 years thank you... That is what we are
talking about here and that is where the long coax is mentioned.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: avionics-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
So, how long does it take to burn up? 4 years and going strong.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Reiche <reichec@verizon.net>
To: avionics-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 3:46 am
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
If you need a short cable run, install a 3db attenuator inline and
make the cable as short as you want. Otherwise you can excpect to burn
up the front end of the gps reciever due to overload, a $900+ flat rate
repair follows.
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: avionics-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:32 AM
Subject: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
I've been trying to find an acceptable answer as to why Garmin wants to
have the coax cable for the GPS antenna to be between 13 and 15 feet.
If I can mount an antenna just 15 inches away from the unit itself, why
do I need to mount the antenna 15 feet away?
One explanation I got was the 430/530 needed a 3 db loss in the cable.
Now, it seems to me that the stronger the signal at the unit is, the
better.For what it's worth, I mounted my antenna (Garmin 430) on the
glareshield on my Tiger.That was 4 years ago. I've never had any
problems with losing the signal. I'm installing another 430 and was
told the 430 won't work with a 15 inch cable. Any ideas?
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Message 2
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I believe that Garmin is referring to the waas upgrades for the
430/530 series. It also requires that you use double shielded wire,
RG-142 or Rg-400. You are right about the short cable length for the
430 and the sl-60, it will work, and so will the gps map series work
with a short antenna cable. Also Garmin specs are between -3 and -7 db
loss, I wonder if they would approve some kind of impedance matching
device in the line???????
Vincent Palermo
vpalermo@tampabay.rr.com
On Nov 27, 2007, at 12:55 AM, teamgrumman@aol.com wrote:
> I have both a Garmin 430 and an Apollo SL-60 with antennas mounted
> about 12 to 15 inches away. Both work fine with no signal loss.
> I've flown all over the country with them. Maybe I'm getting a 3db
> loss through the plexiglass windshield.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Noel R. C. Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> To: avionics-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 9:53 am
> Subject: RE: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
>
> The received signal is digital. This means it only receives 1s and
> 0s.
> If the signal is too strong (cable shortened) everything looks like
> a 1. If the signal is too low ( cable lengthened) everything looks
> like a 0. Either way no data is received.
>
> I guess the folks at Garmin knew what they were doing when they
> wrote the installation instructions. Loop the excess wire in as
> large a loop as practicably possible. Try to avoid bundling with
> Xmtr. Coax.
>
> Noel
>
>
> From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of teamgrumman@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 5:02 AM
> To: avionics-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
>
> I've been trying to find an acceptable answer as to why Garmin wants
> to have the coax cable for the
> GPS antenna to be between 13 and 15 feet. If I can mount an antenna
> just 15 inches away from the
> unit itself, why do I need to mount the antenna 15 feet away?
>
>
> One explanation I got was the 430/530 needed a 3 db loss in the
> cable. Now, it seems to me that the
> stronger the signal at the unit is, the better.
>
> For what it's worth, I mounted my antenna (Garmin 430) on the
> glareshield on my Tiger.
> That was 4 years ago. I've never had any problems with losing the
> signal. I'm installing
> another 430 and was told the 430 won't work with a 15 inch cable.
>
> Any ideas?
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Avionics-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> or?Avionics-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Avionics-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
>
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
>
>
Message 3
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The antenna and electronics for a Garmin WAAS receiver are significantly
different than the PRE-WAAS versions of these products.
In order to allow vertical guidance the receiver must process data much more
quickly and the receiver/antennae combination must maintain significantly
tighter design tolerances. The antenna for a WAAS receiver is different from
a NON WAAS receiver. The new SYSTEM is designed assuming high quality coax
of a nominal length (that provides a defined range of loss between the
antennae and the receiver). This loss is designed into the system and is
part of the WAAS certification that must be measured to be IFR certified for
WAAS enhanced approaches. That is the reason for a nominal length of
antennae wire of course with approved connectors. There are devices that can
be installed into the antennae path that add the required loss for the cases
where the antennae is adjacent to the receiver. It is also why many
installations with antennas remotely installed must be rewired, because the
loss allowed for previous non WAAS receivers is out of limits. The days of
cheap coax and/or connectors, or multiple connectors are gone for a WAAS
approved system! Then entire path must be verified (by measurement) to be
within design guidelines as part of the installation certification process.
_____
From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles
Reiche
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
You have not had a WAAS 430 for 4 years thank you... That is what we are
talking about here and that is where the long coax is mentioned.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
So, how long does it take to burn up? 4 years and going strong.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Reiche <reichec@verizon.net>
Sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 3:46 am
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
If you need a short cable run, install a 3db attenuator inline and make the
cable as short as you want. Otherwise you can excpect to burn up the front
end of the gps reciever due to overload, a $900+ flat rate repair follows.
----- Original Message -----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:32 AM
Subject: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
I've been trying to find an acceptable answer as to why Garmin wants to have
the coax cable for the
GPS antenna to be between 13 and 15 feet. If I can mount an antenna just 15
inches away from the
unit itself, why do I need to mount the antenna 15 feet away?
One explanation I got was the 430/530 needed a 3 db loss in the cable. Now,
it seems to me that the
stronger the signal at the unit is, the better.
For what it's worth, I mounted my antenna (Garmin 430) on the glareshield on
my Tiger.
That was 4 years ago. I've never had any problems with losing the signal.
I'm installing
another 430 and was told the 430 won't work with a 15 inch cable.
Any ideas?
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=A
OLAOF00020000000970> !
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ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 4
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With the Gallium Arsenide RF preamplifiers most of these units have
there is a real chance that you can overload the pre amp and burn it
out Perhaps your GPS doesn=99t have one of those amps.
If it does have one and it burns out the whole unit will just stop
operating. It is possible that your units have preamp protection.
I maintain the best thing to do is to follow the installation manual to
the letter. Then if you can afford to replace the unit, play with
things like shortening cables. If it still works, great. If it stops
working, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Noel
From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
I have both a Garmin 430 and an Apollo SL-60 with antennas mounted about
12 to 15 inches away. Both work fine with no signal loss. I've flown
all over the country with them. Maybe I'm getting a 3db loss through
the plexiglass windshield.
-----Original Message-----
From: Noel R. C. Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 9:53 am
Subject: RE: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
The received signal is digital. This means it only receives 1s and 0s.
If the signal is too strong (cable shortened) everything looks like a
1. If the signal is too low ( cable lengthened) everything looks like a
0. Either way no data is received.
I guess the folks at Garmin knew what they were doing when they wrote
the installation instructions. Loop the excess wire in as large a loop
as practicably possible. Try to avoid bundling with Xmtr. Coax.
Noel
From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of
teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 5:02 AM
Subject: Avionics-List: GPS Antenna
I've been trying to find an acceptable answer as to why Garmin wants to
have the coax cable for the
GPS antenna to be between 13 and 15 feet. If I can mount an antenna
just 15 inches away from the
unit itself, why do I need to mount the antenna 15 feet away?
One explanation I got was the 430/530 needed a 3 db loss in the cable.
Now, it seems to me that the
stronger the signal at the unit is, the better.
For what it's worth, I mounted my antenna (Garmin 430) on the
glareshield on my Tiger.
That was 4 years ago. I've never had any problems with losing the
signal. I'm installing
another 430 and was told the 430 won't work with a 15 inch cable.
Any ideas?
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci
d=AOLAOF00020000000970> !
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Avionics-List
http://forums.matronics.com
ution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or?Avionics-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Avionics-List
p://forums.matronics.com
_____
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?nci
d=AOLAOF00020000000970> !
Message 5
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| Subject: | Truax Corporation in Florida |
I'm looking for info on Truax Corporation in Florida. Apparently, this
company manufactures static wicks for aircraft. I can't find them on the
web; if someone has heard of them and knows how to contact them, please let
me know.
Thanks,
Don
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Truax Corporation in Florida |
Don...
>>Im looking for info on Truax Corporation in Florida<<
I'm in a "searching" mood this morning, so....
Found this reference to static discharge wicks designed by Robert Truax,
but the company mentioned is TCO:
"The technique used to electrostatically charge the aircraft was
developed by Robert Truax of TCO, Inc. TCO is a manufacturer of aircraft
static discharge wicks and works with various aircraft manufacturers to
determine the location and type of discharger required for a specific
aircraft."
A little further searching produced this:
"A purchase order was issued by ISTI to TCO, Inc. of Nogales, AZ and Ft.
Myers, FL to obtain high-voltage systems fabrication and testing expertise"
And following that lead came up with this:
*TCO MANUFACTURING CORP, TRUAX*
604 DANLEY DR
FORT MYERS, FL 33901
No web sites found, and not sure if that's what you are looking for, but
it's a start!
Harley Dixon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Curry wrote:
>
> Im looking for info on Truax Corporation in Florida. Apparently, this
> company manufactures static wicks for aircraft. I cant find them on
> the web; if someone has heard of them and knows how to contact them,
> please let me know.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Don
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re-GPS Antenna Coax Length |
When in doubt, go to the front end of the horse.
Straight from the "horse's mouth" (Garmin installation tech rep
913-397-8200); there is no requirement for either the GNS430 or GNS530W
minimum or maximum coax cable length.
Wayne
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re-GPS Antenna Coax Length |
There is a required DB loss between the WAAS receiver and the antennae, with
good connectors and good coax that works out to a nominal coax length.
I am sure you might be able to meet it with a short cable and poor
workmanship . But how long will it stay in specs.
_____
From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Sweet
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 5:13 PM
Subject: Avionics-List: Re-GPS Antenna Coax Length
When in doubt, go to the front end of the horse.
Straight from the "horse's mouth" (Garmin installation tech rep
913-397-8200); there is no requirement for either the GNS430 or GNS530W
minimum or maximum coax cable length.
Wayne
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