---------------------------------------------------------- Avionics-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/06/08: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:06 AM - MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:02 AM PST US From: Subject: Avionics-List: MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS 2/6/2008 Hello Raymond, You wrote "....prepare for the worst." Not a bad slogan for someone living in Minnesota, particularly this time of year. I spent the first 17 years of my life as a Minnesota farm boy before I enlisted in the US Navy in 1950 and vowed to never return to Minnesota in the winter time again. Of course going through boot camp in the winter time at Great Lakes Naval Recruit Training Center in Illinois did not endear me to that state either. Now to your question -- You wrote: "After skimming 91.205 and 8130.2F I was not able to find anything that confirms or conflicts with the equipment requirements listed in your table for experimental airworthiness certified aircraft operating in VFR day conditions. Could (you) cite your supporting information?" The FAR's are written in a denial or forbidden format (lawyerese). The sections state "No person may ........." and then go on to say what no person is permitted to do at all or unless some specific criteria is met. Essentially if one cannot find something in the FAR's that forbid one to do something then that something is permitted to be done. So the permission, if one is inclined to use that concept, to fly an amateur built experimental aircraft in day VFR conditions with absolutely none of the FAR 91.205** listed equipment or instruments installed is found here in this statement in that aircraft's Operating Limitations portion of its Special Airworthiness Certificate: "After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only." This is a very backward and awkward way, to normal people, for the bureaucrats and lawyers to say it is OK to fly day VFR with nothing required, but if you fly night or instruments you must look to 91.205 for what is required. If one thinks back to the early days of the amateur built experimental aircraft movement you can realize that this freedom to fly with essentially nothing in the way of equipment was not unreasonable. Look at the Breezy http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/kitspages/breezy.php for example -- pretty hard to put much in the way of instrumentation or equipment in that airplane. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." **PS: FAR Sec. 91.205 is not the whole story regarding equipping amateur built experimental aircraft. Here is a quote from the latest version of my table" "However, depending upon other portions of the FAR's, certain items in certain circumstances must not only be installed in amateur built experimental aircraft, but must interface properly with ATC (Air Traffic Control) equipment, other aircraft, or other entities external to the aircraft. Altitude encoders, Transponders, communication radios, exterior lighting, some IFR navigation equipment, and ELT's (Emergency Locator Transmitters) are examples of such equipment. Usually TSO performance criteria are cited to ensure this compatibility compliance. The FAR's must be consulted for proper compliance in these arenas. Therefore, the builder could expect that evidence that this type of equipment in the aircraft is acceptable to the FAA could be required at some point. The burden for complying with the provisions of the aircraft's Special Airworthiness Certificate (which includes the Operating Limitations), and the relevant FAR's, rests with the builder / pilot. " ---------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "raymondj" Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 8:33 AM Subject: Re: MINIMUM INSTRUMENT AND EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS > Greetings, > > Thanks for sending me the instrument and equipment requirement list. > > After skimming 91.205 and 8130.2F I was not able to find anything that > confirms or conflicts with the equipment requirements listed in your table > for experimental airworthiness certified aircraft operating in VFR day > conditions. Could cite your supporting information? > > Thanks, > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message avionics-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Avionics-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/avionics-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/avionics-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.