Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:12 AM - Encoder Certification ()
2. 08:42 AM - Re: Encoder Certification (speedy11@aol.com)
3. 11:06 AM - Re: Garmin 430 background lighting (teamgrumman@aol.com)
4. 01:02 PM - Re: Encoder Certification ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Encoder Certification |
1/17/2009
Hello Steve Thomas, You wrote:
1) "Can I fly somewhere else to get it done once I have flown off my hours?"
Here is what 14 CFR says:
"91.215 ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.
(d) ATC authorized deviations. Requests for ATC authorized deviations must
be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned airspace
within the time periods specified as follows:
(2) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the
airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to
proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request
may be made at any time."
So you see that it is possible to fly your airplane without an operating
transponder where one is required if you obtain ATC permission to do so. Why
not do some research to:
A) Determine how amenable your local ATC coverage people are to letting you
make a one time flight without a transponder IAW 91.215 (d) (2) above.
B) Find a facility that will do your transponder cert and design your flight
test area to include that facility. Then make your request to ATC and on a
flight subsequent to your first flight fly to that location to have the
certification done. (I recommend that the first test flight be just a 20-30
minute orbit over the originating field.)
It would not be reasonable to expect permission to perform the entire Phase
one testing without a transponder unless you were able to do the testing in
airspace that did not require a transponder.
2) "Do I need a transponder cert for my DAR inspection?"
The regulations do not require this -- see 91.215 (d) (2). But a DAR, or FAA
inspector, has wide discretion and the power of the FAA Administrator in
that original airworthiness inspection and he may choose to require one.
If you have not already established some contact and level of rapport with
your prospective inspector you should start now -- and ask him that
question. An FAA inspector would be my first choice. How are you doing with
the program letter and all of the other paperwork required?
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
========================================================
Time: 10:04:13 AM PST US
From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
A message to Stan Sutterfield:
You wrote last June:
> This may not be the ideal forum for asking this question, but I'll try
it
> anyway.
>
> I want to certify my RV-8 for IFR flight. I know the FARs - I've
looked at
> them.
>
> I have the Blue Mountain EFIS One as primary instrumentation.
> I have the Blue Mountain EFIS Lite as a backup.
> Both EFISs are on different electrical busses - the main and the
standby.
> -
> which can be tied together, if needed.
>
> I asked a local avionics guy about doing a pitot-static and
transponder
>
> check for IFR. He said I would have to install a separate altimeter
and
>
> encoder in order to get IFR certification. The EFIS has a built-in
encod
> er.
>
> Has anyone else encountered this obstacle?
>
> Stan Sutterfield
There were several replies that mostly focused on finding the right
avionics guy. I have the exact same setup in my panel as do you and am
ready for certification. Can you share your experience? Are you
certified and flying? Who did you use for your certification and how
did you go about getting it?
I am in Southern California, and anyone else who can offer any advice on
this topic will be welcome. My local shop mostly deals with biz jets
and large non-jets. I don't think they will be very helpful with an
experimental. Also, exorbitantly expensive. Do I need a transponder
cert for my DAR inspection? Can I fly somewhere else to get it done
once I have flown off my hours?
Steve Thomas
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Encoder Certification |
All of this is correct, but why does ATC need to be involved? Unless you
will be flying under airspace that requires a transponder, then there is no
need to contact ATC unless you want them to check your transponder code and
mode C. If you are transiting under class B, then coordinate with
approach control by phone for instructions.
My DAR did not ask for proof of pitot-static or transponder certification -
although I had them available.
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
1/17/2009
Hello Steve Thomas, You wrote:
1) "Can I fly somewhere else to get it done once I have flown off my
hours?"
Here is what 14 CFR says:
"91.215 ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.
(d) ATC authorized deviations. Requests for ATC authorized deviations must
be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned
airspace
within the time periods specified as follows:
(2) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the
airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to
proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the request
may be made at any time."
So you see that it is possible to fly your airplane without an operating
transponder where one is required if you obtain ATC permission to do so.
Why
not do some research to:
A) Determine how amenable your local ATC coverage people are to letting
you
make a one time flight without a transponder IAW 91.215 (d) (2) above.
B) Find a facility that will do your transponder cert and design your
flight
test area to include that facility. Then make your request to ATC and on a
flight subsequent to your first flight fly to that location to have the
certification done. (I recommend that the first test flight be just a
20-30
minute orbit over the originating field.)
It would not be reasonable to expect permission to perform the entire
Phase
one testing without a transponder unless you were able to do the testing
in
airspace that did not require a transponder.
2) "Do I need a transponder cert for my DAR inspection?"
The regulations do not require this -- see 91.215 (d) (2). But a DAR, or
FAA
inspector, has wide discretion and the power of the FAA Administrator in
that original airworthiness inspection and he may choose to require one.
If you have not already established some contact and level of rapport with
your prospective inspector you should start now -- and ask him that
question. An FAA inspector would be my first choice. How are you doing
with
the program letter and all of the other paperwork required?
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
========================================================
Time: 10:04:13 AM PST US
From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
A message to Stan Sutterfield:
You wrote last June:
> This may not be the ideal forum for asking this question, but I'll try
it
> anyway.
>
> I want to certify my RV-8 for IFR flight. I know the FARs - I've
looked at
> them.
>
> I have the Blue Mountain EFIS One as primary instrumentation.
> I have the Blue Mountain EFIS Lite as a backup.
> Both EFISs are on different electrical busses - the main and the
standby.
> -
> which can be tied together, if needed.
>
> I asked a local avionics guy about doing a pitot-static and
transponder
>
> check for IFR. He said I would have to install a separate altimeter
and
>
> encoder in order to get IFR certification. The EFIS has a built-in
encod
> er.
>
> Has anyone else encountered this obstacle?
>
> Stan Sutterfield
There were several replies that mostly focused on finding the right
avionics guy. I have the exact same setup in my panel as do you and am
ready for certification. Can you share your experience? Are you
certified and flying? Who did you use for your certification and how
did you go about getting it?
I am in Southern California, and anyone else who can offer any advice on
this topic will be welcome. My local shop mostly deals with biz jets
and large non-jets. I don't think they will be very helpful with an
experimental. Also, exorbitantly expensive. Do I need a transponder
cert for my DAR inspection? Can I fly somewhere else to get it done
once I have flown off my hours?
Steve Thomas
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin 430 background lighting |
When I went to the setup page, there was something about slope, . . . .
I forget. Anyway, it didn't seem to make a hoot about how bright the dis
play was.
I'll look into it more today.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Swaney <swaneymj@mac.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2010 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: Avionics-List: Garmin 430 background lighting
Looking at paragraph 5.3.7 in the 400W series installation manual, it look
s like
you can tie the display and/or key lighting to either the 430's photocell
or to
a DC lighting bus. There's also a minimum display brightness setting. Is
that
what you changed? There are also several other settings, including SLOPE
and
OFFSET you might look at.
========================
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Encoder Certification |
1/17/2010
Hello Stan Sutterfield, You wrote:
1) "All of this is correct, but why does ATC need to be involved?"
Valid question. ATC does not need to be involved in approving non
transponder flight operations if one is not flying in airspace where the
aircraft must be transponder equipped.
Note my wording copied from below "......where one is required....".
See 14 CFR 91.215 (b) (1) through (5) for a description of the airspace
where the aircraft must be transponder equipped. We are assuming an aircraft
that has been originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical
system.
2) "Unless you will be flying under airspace that requires a transponder,
then there is no
need to contact ATC ..........skip....."
I agree, providing the word "under" is changed to the word "in" as "in" is a
more inclusive word and also the wording used in 14 CFR 91.215.
3) "........... coordinate with approach control by phone for
instructions."
Approach Control is part of the ATC (Air Traffic Control) system. When you
talk to approach control you are talking to ATC.
4) "My DAR did not ask for proof of pitot-static or transponder
certification ..........."
Good, I think that is the way that it should be done. However, as I
mentioned earlier the inspector during the initial airworthiness inspection
is endowed with the power of the Administrator and some inspectors swing a
too heavy hammer. If one disagrees with the inspector one is left with
either swallowing that disagreement or going over the inspector's head
within the FAA.
One should proceed with caution in going over the inspector's head on a
specific item because the inspector may find other areas to show that he is
really the boss. I recall a particularly stubborn DAR that required
direction from FAA Headquarters, at my request, through the supervising FSDO
before he would yield on an inspection issue. He got so mad when he was over
ruled that he refused to acknowledge to me that he had been wrong.
'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
understand knowledge."
==========================================
----- Original Message -----
From: <speedy11@aol.com>
<avionics-list@matronics.com>; <lists@stevet.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Encoder Certification
>
> All of this is correct, but why does ATC need to be involved? Unless you
> will be flying under airspace that requires a transponder, then there is
> no
> need to contact ATC unless you want them to check your transponder code
> and
> mode C. If you are transiting under class B, then coordinate with
> approach control by phone for instructions.
> My DAR did not ask for proof of pitot-static or transponder
> certification -
> although I had them available.
> Stan Sutterfield
> ================================================
>
> 1/17/2009
>
> Hello Steve Thomas, You wrote:
>
> 1) "Can I fly somewhere else to get it done once I have flown off my
> hours?"
>
> Here is what 14 CFR says:
>
> "91.215 ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.
>
> (d) ATC authorized deviations. Requests for ATC authorized deviations
> must
> be made to the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the concerned
> airspace
> within the time periods specified as follows:
>
> (2) For operation of an aircraft with an inoperative transponder to the
> airport of ultimate destination, including any intermediate stops, or to
> proceed to a place where suitable repairs can be made or both, the
> request
> may be made at any time."
>
> So you see that it is possible to fly your airplane without an operating
> transponder where one is required if you obtain ATC permission to do so.
> Why
> not do some research to:
>
> A) Determine how amenable your local ATC coverage people are to letting
> you
> make a one time flight without a transponder IAW 91.215 (d) (2) above.
>
> B) Find a facility that will do your transponder cert and design your
> flight
> test area to include that facility. Then make your request to ATC and on
> a
> flight subsequent to your first flight fly to that location to have the
> certification done. (I recommend that the first test flight be just a
> 20-30
> minute orbit over the originating field.)
>
> It would not be reasonable to expect permission to perform the entire
> Phase
> one testing without a transponder unless you were able to do the testing
> in
> airspace that did not require a transponder.
>
> 2) "Do I need a transponder cert for my DAR inspection?"
>
> The regulations do not require this -- see 91.215 (d) (2). But a DAR, or
> FAA
> inspector, has wide discretion and the power of the FAA Administrator in
> that original airworthiness inspection and he may choose to require one.
>
> If you have not already established some contact and level of rapport
> with
> your prospective inspector you should start now -- and ask him that
> question. An FAA inspector would be my first choice. How are you doing
> with
> the program letter and all of the other paperwork required?
>
> 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and
> understand knowledge."
>
> ========================================================
>
> Time: 10:04:13 AM PST US
> From: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification
>
> A message to Stan Sutterfield:
>
> You wrote last June:
>
>> This may not be the ideal forum for asking this question, but I'll try
> it
>> anyway.
>>
>> I want to certify my RV-8 for IFR flight. I know the FARs - I've
> looked at
>> them.
>>
>> I have the Blue Mountain EFIS One as primary instrumentation.
>> I have the Blue Mountain EFIS Lite as a backup.
>> Both EFISs are on different electrical busses - the main and the
> standby.
>> -
>> which can be tied together, if needed.
>>
>> I asked a local avionics guy about doing a pitot-static and
> transponder
>>
>> check for IFR. He said I would have to install a separate altimeter
> and
>>
>> encoder in order to get IFR certification. The EFIS has a built-in
> encod
>> er.
>>
>> Has anyone else encountered this obstacle?
>>
>> Stan Sutterfield
>
> There were several replies that mostly focused on finding the right
> avionics guy. I have the exact same setup in my panel as do you and am
> ready for certification. Can you share your experience? Are you
> certified and flying? Who did you use for your certification and how
> did you go about getting it?
>
> I am in Southern California, and anyone else who can offer any advice on
> this topic will be welcome. My local shop mostly deals with biz jets
> and large non-jets. I don't think they will be very helpful with an
> experimental. Also, exorbitantly expensive. Do I need a transponder
> cert for my DAR inspection? Can I fly somewhere else to get it done
> once I have flown off my hours?
>
>
> Steve Thomas
>
>
>
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