---------------------------------------------------------- Avionics-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/19/10: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:19 AM - Encoder Certification () 2. 06:33 AM - Altitude encoder () 3. 04:29 PM - Re: Encoder Certification (Noel Loveys) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:44 AM PST US From: Subject: Avionics-List: Encoder Certification 1/19/2010 Hello Jon Finley, Many thanks for your input and raising this point again. You wrote: 1) "Everything noted so far in this thread assumes controlled airspace." I did not make this assumption. 2) "If I missed where that was stated in this thread then ignore my comments." Here is my wording: "It would not be reasonable to expect permission to perform the entire Phase one testing without a transponder unless you were able to do the testing in airspace that did not require a transponder." This specifically raises the point that there is indeed airspace that does not require a transponder. I also point out that 14 CFR 91.215 (b) (1) through (b) (5) and 91.215 (c) identifies the airspace where you must have a transponder. If one is not flying in the airspace identified then there is no requirement for a transponder. 3) "If you read the full text of 14 CFR 91.215 (b),........" Absolutely on point. Up on my soap box now: I have been working on people sized airplanes (as opposed to models) since 1950 and flying since 1958 -- all that time I was planning and gathering information with the intent of building my own airplane some day. When that day came and I started to build and the internet allowed me to see what other builders were thinking and writing I was appalled at the ignorance and assumptions regarding applicable regulations displayed by my fellow builders. Here we had the greatest opportunity on our planet to do this wonderful homebuilding and flying thing and there were many builders so willing to operate on hearsay, gossip, and rumor and possibly violate regulations rather than educate themselves. Each notorious violation bringing us closer to the day when we could lose the opportunity to homebuild and fly. So my mission in life became to educate my fellow homebuilders and pilots regarding what the regulations actually say with the hope and belief that education would encourage compliance. That is why many of my postings read the way they do. 4) "Additionally, 91.215 (c), does not apply as almost all of our airspace is uncontrolled." Let's see what 14 CFR definitions says: "Controlled airspace means an airspace of defined dimensions within which air traffic control service is provided to IFR flights and to VFR flights in accordance with the airspace classification. Note: Controlled airspace is a generic term that covers Class A, Class B, Class C, Class D, and Class E airspace." So as long as one is flying outside of the airspace identified in 91.215 (b) (1) through (5) and outside the definition of controlled airspace then one indeed does not need to have or operate a transponder. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================== Time: 07:10:22 PM PST US From: "Jon Finley" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification Bakerocb, Everything noted so far in this thread assumes controlled airspace. If I missed where that was stated in this thread then ignore my comments. No doubt that what has been said is applicable given the right environment (controlled airspace). If you read the full text of 14 CFR 91.215 (b), you will find that folks living in a place like me (middle of nowhere in New Mexico) can fly for hours and hours in most any direction and NOT come upon ANY of the airspace listed in (b)(1) through (b)(5). Additionally, 91.215 (c), does not apply as almost all of our airspace is uncontrolled. So, given MY environment, I can fly without a transponder and/or without it turned on. There are huge expanses of this country where this is true. If someone can prove the above wrong, I would be interested in hearing. Jon ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:07 AM PST US From: Subject: Avionics-List: Altitude encoder 1/19/2010 Hello Angier Ames, You wrote: ".....it is my understanding that your IFR equipment must perform to minimum FAA specs, but there is no requirement that the equipment be certified." Why operate on just an understanding when you can go to the regulations and determine the facts? With regard specifically to the altitude encoder here is what 14 CFR says on this subject: "91.217 Data correspondence between automatically reported pressure altitude data and the pilot's altitude reference. No person may operate any automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment associated with a radar beacon transponder- (a) When deactivation of that equipment is directed by ATC; (b) Unless, as installed, that equipment was tested and calibrated to transmit altitude data corresponding within 125 feet (on a 95 percent probability basis) of the indicated or calibrated datum of the altimeter normally used to maintain flight altitude, with that altimeter referenced to 29.92 inches of mercury for altitudes from sea level to the maximum operating altitude of the aircraft; or (c) Unless the altimeters and digitizers in that equipment meet the standards of TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively." So now, instead of just operating on some understanding, I call it hearsay, gossip, and rumor, we can operate on the facts. Also please see the attachment. Please let me know if you want further clarification. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================= Time: 07:00:20 AM PST US From: "Greenbacks, UnLtd." Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Altitude encoder I built the Rocky Mountain Instrument MicroEncoder from a kit and although I can't say for certain, the altitude encoder portion of this instrument may well be more accurate than a certified unit. Which gets me to my point...., it is my understanding that your IFR equipment must perform to minimum FAA specs, but there is no requirement that the equipment be certified. Angier Ames N4ZQ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:40 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Avionics-List: Encoder Certification Calibration is generally done with a Barfield tester... Bring $$$$. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-avionics-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net Sent: January 19, 2010 1:42 AM lists@stevet.net Subject: Avionics-List: Encoder Certification 1/18/2010 Hello Steve Thomas, You wrote: 1) "Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a long way to being able to discuss with some authority." A) There is no regulatory requirement for a pitot system check, but you may gain some confidence in the accuracy of your airspeed indicator by performing one. B) The static pressure system check performed in order to meet the requirements of 14 CFR 91.411 quoted here: "Altimeter system and altitude reporting equipment tests and inspections. (a) No person may operate an airplane, or helicopter, in controlled airspace under IFR unless- (1) Within the preceding 24 calendar months, each static pressure system, each altimeter instrument, and each automatic pressure altitude reporting system has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendices E and F of part 43 of this chapter;" Must be performed in accordance with the portion of 14 CFR 91.411 quoted here: "(b) The tests required by paragraph (a) of this section must be conducted by- (1) The manufacturer of the airplane, or helicopter, on which the tests and inspections are to be performed; (2) A certificated repair station properly equipped to perform those functions and holding- (i) An instrument rating, Class I; (ii) A limited instrument rating appropriate to the make and model of appliance to be tested; (iii) A limited rating appropriate to the test to be performed; (iv) An airframe rating appropriate to the airplane, or helicopter, to be tested; or (3) A certificated mechanic with an airframe rating (static pressure system tests and inspections only)." So only if you hold one of the qualifications listed above, would you be able to perform the regulatory requirement of the static pressure system tests. But otherwise, as you point out, performing the test yourself could help you in your discussions. The equipment and parameters to perform the test are described in 14 CFR Appendix E to Part 43 (a). 2) "Being able to calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step in the right direction." Good idea. 3) "I will report back and detail my experience." I would appreciate that -- thank you. 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ============================================== Time: 09:36:20 AM PST US From: Steve Thomas Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Encoder Certification A discussion is already underway. What is most important to me is to know the facts. You cannot argue with "experts" if you don't know the facts. Being able to do my own pitot-static check will also get me a long way to being able to discuss with some authority. Being able to calibrate my BMA EFIS ahead of time will be a giant step in the right direction. Thanks to all of you for this invaluable help! I will report back and detail my experience. 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