Avionics-List Digest Archive

Thu 01/21/10


Total Messages Posted: 5



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:35 AM - Encoder Certification ()
     2. 04:48 AM - ONGOING DISCUSSION ()
     3. 09:23 AM - Re: Encoder Certification (lessdragprod@aol.com)
     4. 02:52 PM - Encoder Certification ()
     5. 03:04 PM - Arnav FMS 5000 GPS Antenna (John Grosse)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:35:45 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Encoder Certification
    1/21/2010 Hello Bill Boyd, You wrote: 1) "OC, I'm pretty sure my experimental airworthiness certificate has a blank on it for "manufacturer."" {Response} That is correct. FAA Form 8130-7 SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE block B is entitled MANUFACTURER. This form is used for many different kinds of aircraft than just experimental amateur built. Some of these different kinds of aircraft could indeed have been created by an FAA recognized manufacturer such as Boeing, Piper, Cessna, etc. 2) "I've seen some builders put their last name there, while others put "Vans" or whatever." {Response} Not likely. That form is filled out and signed by the FAA Representative, either an FAA Employee or a DAR, who signs it in block E. 3) "I'm not looking at my cert right now it's in the plane), but I'm reasonably sure the box I'm referring to is not labeled "Fabricator."" {Response} I am looking at my SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE right now. Block B, MANUFACTURER has N/A as an entry. Block D, BUILDER has my name. I hope that every homebuilder who has read this thread is now convinced that they are not their aircraft's manufacturer, which is one of the qualifications listed in 14 CFR 91.411 as needed in order to perform the tests required by that paragraph (91.411 Atimeter system and altitude reporting equipment tests and inspection). 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." PS: I write not to pick on you Bill, but to encourage my fellow builders to move from the casual arena of "pretty sure" or "hearsay, gossip, and rumor" to the available facts (which are usually not that hard to come by) regarding our hobby. ========================================================== Time: 06:00:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> OC, I'm pretty sure my experimental airworthiness certificate has a blank on it for "manufacturer." I've seen some builders put their last name there, while others put "Vans" or whatever. I'm not looking at my cert right now (it's in the plane), but I'm reasonably sure the box I'm referring to is not labeled "Fabricator." -Bill B


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:48:56 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: ONGOING DISCUSSION
    1/21/2010 Hello Raymond, You wrote; "Q. Who can test and inspect to verify compliance with E and F of the chapter?" {Response} The entities qualified to perform the 14 CFR Part 43 Appendicies E and F tests required by 14 CFR paragraphs 91.411 and 91.413 are listed in those paragraphs. They can be readily accessed at this web site by clicking on Regulations & Policies: http://www.faa.gov/ 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ================================================= Time: 12:59:27 PM PST US From: ray <raymondj@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ONGOING DISCUSSION Q. Who can test and inspect to verify compliance with E and F of the chapter? Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN.


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 09:23:27 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Encoder Certification
    From: lessdragprod@aol.com
    Hi All, I just checked the FAA records: William E. Boyd, Jr is the "manufacturer" of a RV-6A. There is no BUILDER block on the aircraft registration form. What did you put on the 8050-1 form you sent to FAA Oklahoma City to register your air craft? I think this is the first form the FAA sees for a new homebuilt. Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: bakerocb@cox.net r@gmail.com Sent: Thu, Jan 21, 2010 4:34 am Subject: Avionics-List: Encoder Certification 1/21/2010 Hello Bill Boyd, You wrote: 1) "OC, I'm pretty sure my experimental airworthiness certificate has a bl ank on it for "manufacturer."" {Response} That is correct. FAA Form 8130-7 SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFIC ATE block B is entitled MANUFACTURER. This form is used for many different kinds of aircraft than just experimental amateur built. Some of these dif ferent kinds of aircraft could indeed have been created by an FAA recogniz ed manufacturer such as Boeing, Piper, Cessna, etc. 2) "I've seen some builders put their last name there, while others put "V ans" or whatever." {Response} Not likely. That form is filled out and signed by the FAA Repre sentative, either an FAA Employee or a DAR, who signs it in block E. 3) "I'm not looking at my cert right now it's in the plane), but I'm reaso nably sure the box I'm referring to is not labeled "Fabricator."" {Response} I am looking at my SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE right now. Block B, MANUFACTURER has N/A as an entry. Block D, BUILDER has my name. I hope that every homebuilder who has read this thread is now convinced th at they are not their aircraft's manufacturer, which is one of the qualifi cations listed in 14 CFR 91.411 as needed in order to perform the tests re quired by that paragraph (91.411 Atimeter system and altitude reporting eq uipment tests and inspection). 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and un derstand knowledge." PS: I write not to pick on you Bill, but to encourage my fellow builders to move from the casual arena of "pretty sure" or "hearsay, gossip, and rumor" to the available facts (which are usually not that hard to come by ) regarding our hobby. ======================== ======================== =========== Time: 06:00:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification From: Bill Boyd <sportav8r@gmail.com> OC, I'm pretty sure my experimental airworthiness certificate has a blank on it for "manufacturer." I've seen some builders put their last name there, while others put "Vans" or whatever. I'm not looking at my cert right now (it's in the plane), but I'm reasonably sure the box I'm referring to is not labeled "Fabricator." -Bill B ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ======================== ============


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:52:22 PM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Encoder Certification
    1/21/2010 Hello Again Jon Finley, Thank you for responding to my request (copied below) to review the charting of controlled and uncontrolled airspace in your area. Before I respond to the specific points that you made in that charting regard I would like to again remind all of the readers regarding the non relevance of generic controlled airspace when it comes to determining whether or not an aircraft must be equipped with an operable coded transponder. I repeat: "Anyway the real issue here when it comes to requiring a transponder or not is not the existence or not of generic controlled airspace, but rather the specific airspaces identified in 91.215 (b). The term "controlled airspace" is not used once in the entire 91.215 (b) parargraph and this is the 14 CFR paragaph that regulates whether an aircraft must be equipped with a transponder or not." You wrote: 1) ".............. one has to actually look at a sectional (NOT IFR chart) to see where true "uncontrolled airspace" exists." {Response} Is that really true? I don't have the current appropriate sectional and low altitude IFR charts of the areas out west to compare side by side, but the few sectional charts that I do have (outdated) of the areas where I think there should be some uncontrolled Class G airspace going from the surface up to 14,500 MSL feet do not identify this airspace. But this Class G airspace going from the surface up to 14,500 feet MSL is the airspace that I believe is shown in brown on the low altitude IFR charts. 2) "Said another way,one has to look at a sectional to see at what altitude the floor of Class E airspace exists." {Response} I agree, the sectionals do show where the floor of controlled Class E airspace is at either 700 feet (using magenta colored shading) or 1,200 feet (using blue color shading) above the surface. But do the sectionals in your area also show the uncontrolled Class G airspace that goes from the surface up to 14,500 feet MSL like the low altitude charts show with brown shading? If so how do the sectionals show this same airspace? 3) "There is quite a bit of area (many, many, many square miles) where Class E starts at 14,500' AGL and a few locations where it starts at 11,500' and 12,000'." {Response} And again it does not matter where Class E starts, 700 feet above the surface, 1,200 feet above the surface, 11,500 feet MSL, 12,000 feet MSL or 14,500 feet MSL when it comes to where one needs an operable coded transponder in an aircraft because it is paragraph 14 CFR 91.215 (b) (5) (i), (along with the other relevant paragraphs in 91.215 (b)), that determines transponder requirement. The relevant numbers in 91.215 (b) (5) (i) are to be below 10,000 feet MSL or within 2,500 feet of the surface in order to operate without a transponder. Even if one is operating in that uncontrolled Class G airspace between 10,000 feet MSL and the beginning of controlled Class E airspace at 14,500 feet MSL one must have an operable coded transponder. 4) "Here, it is possible/legal (due to the airspace) to pull the transponder (or leave it off) and fly to a repair shop (obviously depending on where the repair shop is..).' {Response} Agreed, as long as one is in compliance with 14 CFR 91.215 (b). 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and understand knowledge." ====================================================== Time: 09:08:18 AM PST US From: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Encoder Certification Bakerocb, SkyVector.com is an awesome resource. You can view any sectional or IFR chart in the US (maybe more, I haven't tried) with it and do some very neat trip planning. You are absolutely right, one has to actually look at a sectional (NOT IFR chart) to see where true "uncontrolled airspace" exists. Said another way, one has to look at a sectional to see at what altitude the floor of Class E airspace exists. I admit that I took some liberty with my previous statement to make a point. Obviously we have plenty of Class E space here. The Class E airspace where I live (E98) starts at 1200' AGL (about 6,000' MSL). That is true for most of the northern half of the state except where an airport with an approach exists (the Class E floor extends to 700'/ground at those locations). There is quite a bit of area (many, many, many square miles) where Class E starts at 14,500' AGL and a few locations where it starts at 11,500' and 12,000'. With that in mind, I do not have a good guess at how much of my actual flying is in uncontrolled airspace (i.e. beneath the floor of Class E) but I would guess about 40%. When going x-country (i.e. hundreds of miles), a higher altitude is typical which places me in Class E. Most of my flying is recreational (to from breakfast, sightseeing, having fun) and is fairly low - I do get above 1200' AGL but also spend a lot of time below 1200' AGL. Here, it is possible/legal (due to the airspace) to pull the transponder (or leave it off) and fly to a repair shop (obviously depending on where the repair shop is..). Jon Finley =========================================================== > 1/20/2010 > > Hello Again Jon Finley, Can we please beat on this subject a bit more > with > your help? > > You write: > > 1) "..... almost all of our airspace is uncontrolled." and "There are > huge > expanses of this country where this is true." > > {Response} I wonder if this is so. Years ago when I would freely roam > the > wild west in my many different flying machines I would eye the > uncontrolled > airspace (delineated by brown shading as opposed to white on the low > altitude IFR charts) and wonder about its significance. > > There was damn little brown shading then and probably much less now. > Can you > please obtain a copy of a recent low altitude IFR chart for your area > and > confirm that the statements you made above are true? I tend to doubt > them. > Note that all airspace in our country above 14,500 is Class E airspace > and > therefore is controlled. > > 2) "If you read the full text of 14 CFR 91.215 (b), you will find that > folks > living in a place like me (middle of nowhere in New Mexico) can fly for > hours and hours in most any direction and NOT come upon ANY of the > airspace listed in (b)(1) through (b)(5)." > > {Response} If you get above 10,000 feet MSL and not within 2,500 feet > of the > surface you will definitely be in the airspace identified by 91.215 (b) > (5) > (i). See here: > > "(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no > person > may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) > through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with > an > operable coded radar beacon transponder....... > > (i) In all airspace of the 48 contiguous states and the District of > Columbia > at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 > feet > above the surface; and....." > > 3) "So, given MY environment, I can fly without a transponder and/or > without > it turned on." > > {Response} Note that 91.215 (b) (5) (i) in effect permits aircraft with > no > transponders to operate below 10,000 feet MSL and above 10,000 feet MSL > if > within 2,500 feet of the surface, even if that airspace is controlled, > as > long as the rest of 91.215 (b) is complied with. > > Could it be that this vast amount of airspace is the airspace that you > have > in mind to operate in and not uncontrolled airspace per se? > > Anyway the real issue here when it comes to requiring a transponder or > not > is not the existence or not of generic controlled airspace, but rather > the > specific airspaces identified in 91.215 (b). The term "controlled > airspace" > is not used once in the entire 91.215 (b) parargraph and this is the 14 > CFR > paragaph that regulates whether an aircraft must be equipped with a > transponder or not. > > Hoping to read about what you find out -- sure wish I had access to a > set of > low altitude IFR charts for the entire country. > > 'OC' Says: "The best investment we can make is the effort to gather and > understand knowledge." > > PS: I just went on line and checked in the vicinity of Socorro NM. Yes > there > is some brown (uncontrolled airspace) out there, but one would be hard > pressed to fly around and avoid all surrounding white (controlled > airspace) > unless a special navigation effort was made.


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:04:51 PM PST US
    From: John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net>
    Subject: Arnav FMS 5000 GPS Antenna
    I have an Arnav FMS 5000 in my aircraft. This is a dual receiver IFR certified unit that uses either GPS or Loran C. I have it working with Loran only but just purchased the GPS receiver. Does anyone know what kind of GPS antenna I need? I know some GPS antennas are receiver specific and some have a built in preamp so I want to make sure I don't buy the wrong type of antenna. Thanks. John Grosse




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   avionics-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Avionics-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/avionics-list
  • Browse Avionics-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/avionics-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --