---------------------------------------------------------- Avionics-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/23/12: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:40 AM - Re: Fw: Portable Transponder (Jesse Kluijfhout, PE1RUI) 2. 05:37 AM - ELT Antenna () 3. 07:04 PM - Re: ELT Antenna () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:22 AM PST US From: "Jesse Kluijfhout, PE1RUI" Subject: Avionics-List: Re: Fw: Portable Transponder I would suggest to use an external antenna with a good groundplane. It doubt the VSWR is very good the way when it is directly connected (however Trig products will give an error when the VSWR is very high). Another point to think of is the high peak power that a transponder is transmitting (about 125 or 250 Watt depending on class) The pulse duration is only short, lowering the average power. My transponder test equipement suggest to take a distance of at least to meter to reduce field strength your exposed to during transponder field testing. When the antenna is directly on the unit you will be likely close to the antenna. Some scientist say that exposure to high level RF fields is not dangerous, while other doubt this, I think it is better to take some distance from the antenna to reduce the field strength at your seating position. Jesse ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:09 AM PST US From: Subject: Avionics-List: ELT Antenna 3/23/2012 Hello Noel Loveys, Thank you for your inputs on this subject, but in the interest of stamping out hearsay, gossip, and rumors regarding experimental amateur built aircraft I'd like to point out that some of your comments are just not applicable in the USA. The following statements that you wrote are not correct in the USA: 1) "In that case if even on an OBAM aircraft the ELT and transponder must be installed or signed off by a certified AME (Canada) or A&P (U.S.)" 2) "One of the things I do not like about the new ELT is that aircraft cannot borrow another ELT while one is out having scheduled service done." 3) "...so they wouldn't have to fly without one... Which is legal for up to 90 days." Note that the regulatory requirements for having an ELT in a US registered civil aircraft operating in the US, and the circumstances permitted for flying without an ELT installed, are contained in 14 CFR 91.207. That section is too long and complicated to be copied, or even extracted in this posting. It may be accessed here: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=e13e8f64d66f124a79dbd562cbe93f0b&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.3.7.4&idno=14 4) "In fact even a licensed AME is not allowed to change the batteries on an ELT it has to be done by an approved Avionics tech or an approved avionics shop." 5) "Amateur built aircraft are another quintal of fish... They don't even have to carry an ELT." They do in the USA in accordance with 14 CFR 91.207. Thanks for your help in posting accuracy. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." ============================================================= Time: 11:11:14 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna In that case if even on an OBAM aircraft the ELT and transponder must be installed or signed off by a certified AME (Canada) or A&P (U.S.) Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: March 21, 2012 8:26 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna The minimum for use of ELTs is to demonstrate that the complete system meets the TSO. Good luck with doing that with a roll your own antenna of unknown impedance and SWR. ELTs and transponders are two items on OBAM aircraft that must comply with the TSO. Noel wrote: It sure would be... but for amateur aircraft you might be able to use your own antenna. Noel From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke Sent: March 20, 2012 10:18 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna Have to look at your ELT installation instructions. The ELT is TSOed and might require that you use their antenna. ========================================================= Time: 06:36:13 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna In this country any appliance on a certified aircraft with certain exceptions has to be installed by or checked by a certified AME ( aircraft maintenance engineer ) and the installation has to be documented in the airframe log book and noted if there is a separate log book for the appliance. One of the things I do not like about the new ELT is that aircraft cannot borrow another ELT while one is out having scheduled service done. In the past the AMO I worked for had a "loaner" ELT that we would put in aircraft so they wouldn't have to fly without one... Which is legal for up to 90 days. In fact even a licensed AME is not allowed to change the batteries on an ELT it has to be done by an approved Avionics tech or an approved avionics shop. Amateur built aircraft are another quintal of fish... They don't even have to carry an ELT. Mind I don't know anyone who is stupid enough to fly this land without one. Noel ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:02 PM PST US From: Subject: Avionics-List: Re: ELT Antenna 3/23/2012 Hello Noel, Thank you for your most courteous reply. You wrote: "New 406 mHz. ELTs are identified to specific aircraft in specific configuration." This is a very important point that you make. Each of those ELT's is also identified to a specific Owner/Operator of that specific aircraft and to a specific Primary and Alternate 24-Hour Emergency Contact associated with that specific ELT and aircraft along with communication information for all of those individuals. See here: http://www.nmea.org/Assets/elt%20406%20registration%20and%20renewal.pdf The purpose of that contact information is to permit rapid communication with one of those individuals should an emergency signal be received by a satellite to confirm that the signal is not a false alarm. Also note that it is possible on that form to submit a Change of ELT Information or Ownership and to do it fairly quickly online at: www.beaconregistration.noaa.gov This would permit a fairly flexible and timely means of swapping a 406 Mhz ELT from one aircraft to another if that became a need and one complied with all provisions of the registration requirements. 'OC' Baker Says: "The best investment we can make is the time and effort to gather and understand knowledge." =================================================== From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 2:35 PM Subject: RE: ELT Antenna > My apologies sometimes I forget that most people on the lists are not > Canadian and there are several differences in our aviation procedures. > > In Canada an aircraft flown commercially must have an ELT on board. > However > I'm not sure it has to be turned on. An ELT may be removed for servicing > for up to 90 days. > > New 406 mHz. ELTs are identified to specific aircraft in specific > configuration. One of the new ELT cannot be taken out of one aircraft and > put in another. The identifier code on the ELT is "Married "to a specific > airplane. My understanding is if a large plane is converted from > passenger > to cargo it must be refitted with a new ELT as there is no vehicle to do > this. > > I do like to keep up with what is going on south of the 49th so I will > have > a look through your link and at the same time I'll have another look > through > CARs, Canada's equivalent to FARs. > > Thank you. > > Noel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message avionics-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Avionics-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/avionics-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/avionics-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.