---------------------------------------------------------- Beech-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/03/04: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:03 AM - Uplock rigging (BobsV35B@aol.com) 2. 06:39 AM - Re: Engine Failure in Flight (flyv35b) 3. 07:58 AM - piston failure () 4. 06:20 PM - Uplock Cable (Walt Cannon) 5. 08:51 PM - Re: piston failure (Gary Strong) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:44 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Beech-List: Uplock rigging --> Beech-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 5/3/04 1:56:00 AM Central Daylight Time, beech-list-digest@matronics.com writes: They *are* important, because if they break, then there's nothing to pull the uplock bracket out of the way. If that happens, the main gear isn't coming down for love or money. Good Morning Ron, Why don't you rethink that statement a bit? I think you will find that it is the spring that pulls the uplock out of the way. All the cable does is pull the uplock in position to keep it from sagging in a high "G" situation. If the cable is broken and the spring is OK, the uplock will just stay in the unlocked position. Chances are that nothing untoward will happen at all. I am one of those few folks who feel that the entire uplock mechanism is unneeded and should never have been installed, but it was during those early days when no one really understood what it was that was tearing the Bonanzas apart. The engineers thought the wing was exploding when the gear doors came open in a high "G" pull up. It is my feeling they were barking up the wrong tree I have seen many broken uplock cables. None of them have ever experienced any difficulties at all. A broken or badly worn uplock cable is generally an indication that the landing gear components are getting worn. The uplock cable should never pull the lock into position so soon that it actually lifts the gear. If it does that, the cable will probably start to deteriorate and eventually break. As long as the spring is doing it's thing, it will keep the uplock out of the way. Even if the spring is broken and the uplock happens to stay in the locked position, the gear should still come out IF the uplock roller is properly greased and there is no notch worn in the uplock ramp. It takes a lot of very poor maintenance to defeat that landing gear design, but it can be done. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Airpark LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8502 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:09 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: Beech-List: Engine Failure in Flight --> Beech-List message posted by: "flyv35b" You didn't say what model Bonanza and engine. I assume it was the IO-520? I think this type of failure would be very unusual. I would suspect that the studs and thru bolts fatigued and eventually failed due to improper torque initially if the entire cylinder came off at the mounting flange. Or did just the head fail? That would be to a failure of the threaded area between the head and barrel and much more common of a failure I would think. Cliff A&P/IA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Strong" Subject: Beech-List: Engine Failure in Flight > --> Beech-List message posted by: "Gary Strong" > > Saturday was not a good day. While flying enroute from Minneapolis to > Kansas City, one of my cylinders (the cylinder closest to the pilot - is > that #2?) decided to depart the aircraft. Obviously a dead stick > landing was in order, but thankfully I was able to land it on a rural 2 > lane road without incident. The cylinder is completely off of the > engine, and came flying out by breaking the hinges on the cowl and then > hitting the wing (putting 2 serious dents/holes by the fuel filler). > > I contacted the insurance agent and he arranged for White Industries out > of Kansas City to retrieve the plane. They'll have to remove the wings > I suspect and flat trailer it to Kansas City. He suggested the plane be > hauled to Executive Beachcraft in Kansas City. Worst part is Executive > said it usually takes continental about 8 weeks to ship an engine and > another month or so to put it in. Basically summer flying in Minnesota > is out! > > Engine was a Continental rebuild installed in 1995 with about 850 hrs on > it. > > Has anyone had this happen to them? Any idea why? Engine has not had > any trouble, oil changes regularly with no metal in filter, and aircraft > is flown almost weekly. > > What happens now? Will the insurance company (USAIG) pay to install a > new rebuilt engine or will I need to cough up the 850 hrs use in dollars > ($15k) and they'll only cover the number of hours left until tbo? > > Also, since the core is scrapped, what about putting in an io-550? Any > recommendations on an STC holder I should look for? I assume I'll have > to have a shop in Kansas City put in the engine if I go to a IO-550 so > it would need to be an STC that can be put in by someone else. > > Thanks for all the help!! > > Gary S. > N77QQ - currently grounded! > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:25 AM PST US From: Subject: Beech-List: piston failure --> Beech-List message posted by: Listers, --> Beech-List message posted by: "Gary Strong" Saturday was not a good day. While flying enroute from Minneapolis to Kansas City, one of my cylinders (the cylinder closest to the pilot - is that #2?) decided to depart the aircraft. Hello Gary, Had a similar experience last fall with my J-35 IO-470. Didn't loose the whole cylinder but the piston top came off at the wrist pin. Made for a whole lot of vibration going on. and extreme pucker factor until I found a private grass strip to land on. Fortunately did not bend the airframe, Hope you were as lucky. Turned out that the J had suffered a prop strike and no one bothered to tear the engine down (or make a log entry on the repair for that matter). As near as we can tell from piston parts and abnormal wear on the side of the piston the engine had been running with a bent rod in it for about 75 hours. Also found a guy who had the same identical problem prior in a Cessna and showed me the piston that came out of his 470. looked like the same one. He noted that the piston or rings had been changed at least 5 times prior to its breaking according to the logs for low compression. Nobody had suspected the rod as being twisted or bent. What seems to be the common thread is the bent rod in the engine for what ever cause. Not sure what your situation actually is. but, I would look for an abnormal wear pattern on the skirt pieces under the wrist pin. (If you can find them) Pistons are normally cam ground and don't wear on the skirt under the pin boss. Both of the cases above the wear was present. The resulting loads imposed on the piston pulls the top off and that is not a fun experience. As a note I think it may be common for mechanics to just assume the cylinder has a little rust or bad stuck rings or and replace it with new and never check the rod alignment prior to assembly. A good tell tail sign is the wear pattern on the piston skirt. If you find wear on the side of the piston replace the rod. Regards, Steve Crisp ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:37 PM PST US From: "Walt Cannon" Subject: Beech-List: Uplock Cable --> Beech-List message posted by: "Walt Cannon" Ron Davis wrote: > > Walt, > > > They *are* important, because if they break, then there's nothing to pull > the uplock bracket out of the way. If that happens, the main gear isn't > coming down for love or money. > Ron.... The web site you sent was fabulous and addressed the same problem as I have. I found cables at Avstat for 62.37 each if anyone is interested. One comment about your statement above. They are important, but I from my understanding, they pull the uplock bracket into place instead of out of the way. The failure mode would be that one would not have any uplock at all. The spring is what pulls the block out of the way. Regards, WC ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:52 PM PST US From: "Gary Strong" Subject: RE: Beech-List: piston failure --> Beech-List message posted by: "Gary Strong" Steve, Cliff, & All, The engine was an IO-520BB in a 1979 V35B that ran very well prior to the problem. The entire cylinder left the aircraft through the cowl at a high rate of speed (looked like a blur to me, but my wife was looking at the wing and saw it hit). I did land on a small rural highway, so fortunately the airplane isn't bent. Unfortunately the cylinder is in a field somewhere so its going to be hard to find out what happened. My delima now is what to do next. I spoke to the insurance company and since I landed on a highway and didn't bend the aircraft at all, they don't cover the engine whatsoever. If I had landed gear up in the field next to the road (the option I had chosed if I saw wires or cars) they would have covered the engine since the prop hit the dirt. Since the prop never was damaged, they only cover the resulting damage to the wing from the cylinder hitting it. I called a couple of rebuilders and prices are from $19,000 (standard) to $24,000 (Millenium) for a rebuilt engine, plus up to $10,000 in addition if my core won't be accepted due to the damage to the case, missing cylinder, crank, etc. One shop said my core may we worth $5,000 but they wouldn't know until disassembly. My other option is to rebuild my current engine. It will obviously need a case, cylinder, and possibly a crankshaft depending upon if the crankshaft was damaged when the rod was pulled off of the it. I'd probably be more comfortable with a different engine, but I suppose if they check out everything and it's a high quality shop I should be ok. I'm going to find out more tomorrow. I may be able to rebuild mine for around $16,000. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. This is new ground for me, and the $$ are definitely big! Thanks! Gary S. N77QQ -----Original Message----- From: owner-beech-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-beech-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve@aerobuysell.com Subject: Beech-List: piston failure --> Beech-List message posted by: Listers, --> Beech-List message posted by: "Gary Strong" Saturday was not a good day. While flying enroute from Minneapolis to Kansas City, one of my cylinders (the cylinder closest to the pilot - is that #2?) decided to depart the aircraft. Hello Gary, Had a similar experience last fall with my J-35 IO-470. Didn't loose the whole cylinder but the piston top came off at the wrist pin. Made for a whole lot of vibration going on. and extreme pucker factor until I found a private grass strip to land on. Fortunately did not bend the airframe, Hope you were as lucky. Turned out that the J had suffered a prop strike and no one bothered to tear the engine down (or make a log entry on the repair for that matter). As near as we can tell from piston parts and abnormal wear on the side of the piston the engine had been running with a bent rod in it for about 75 hours. Also found a guy who had the same identical problem prior in a Cessna and showed me the piston that came out of his 470. looked like the same one. He noted that the piston or rings had been changed at least 5 times prior to its breaking according to the logs for low compression. Nobody had suspected the rod as being twisted or bent. What seems to be the common thread is the bent rod in the engine for what ever cause. Not sure what your situation actually is. but, I would look for an abnormal wear pattern on the skirt pieces under the wrist pin. (If you can find them) Pistons are normally cam ground and don't wear on the skirt under the pin boss. Both of the cases above the wear was present. The resulting loads imposed on the piston pulls the top off and that is not a fun experience. As a note I think it may be common for mechanics to just assume the cylinder has a little rust or bad stuck rings or and replace it with new and never check the rod alignment prior to assembly. A good tell tail sign is the wear pattern on the piston skirt. If you find wear on the side of the piston replace the rod. Regards, Steve Crisp == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == ==