Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:59 AM - Buying a G35 (Doug Hodde)
2. 07:01 AM - Re: Buying a G35 (BobsV35B@aol.com)
3. 07:57 AM - Re: Buying a G35 (Tom Henderson)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Buying a G35 (Tom Henderson)
5. 08:30 AM - Re: Buying a G35 (Marcos Della)
6. 10:41 AM - Re: Buying a G35 (Robert Starnes)
7. 01:12 PM - Old Bonanzas (jim aitken)
Message 1
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--> Beech-List message posted by: "Doug Hodde" <hodde@olcwireless.net>
Greetings Guys
I'm new to the list.
I am looking at a 1956 G35. During the prebuy, the compressions were really
lousy: 64, 56, 44, 22, 58, 30, but my A&P who is familiar with the airplane
thinks it just sat too long after being flown and taxi'ed with the cowl
flaps closed. He thinks he can pull the cylinders and replace the rings and
clean up the pistons and have it flying. It also needs a new windshield and
he's recommending I upgrade to a late model windshield.
He says the airframe is the cleanest G35 I'll find. New gear motor on one
side. Working Beech wing leveler, Hangarred for years.
Other than that, the airplane is fine.
It has a weak older panel, ugly, but intact paint and a weak but serviceable
interior. The price is a bargain, ($45,000) but I have heard so many times
not to buy a fixer-upper.
My goal is just to build retact time in it, and possibly get my instrument
rating. I really wasn't planning on upgrading it much, just using it for
some 200-300 mile trips I commonly make. I would probably sell it in 3-5
years
Your opinions and input would be helpful. Thanks - Doug
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a G35 |
--> Beech-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning Doug,
Welcome to the list and I do hope you buy a Bonanza.
If you have not done so yet, may I suggest that you join the American
Bonanza Society and one of the regional Bonanza groups.
There is no better way to find out what is really happening than to talk to
many owners of the aircraft you are planning to buy.
The price you have mentioned does not seem to me to be a bargain for an
airplane that has been sitting for a considerable amount of time.
Your find may be the exception, but in general, such an airplane can eat up
another $45,000.00 in a flash.
May I ask what the qualifications are of the mechanic who did the prebuy?
Bonanzas are expensive airplanes. They are also relatively complicated
machines. Many very competent mechanics that do not have considerable Bonanza
specific knowledge can miss some very expensive details on an inspection.
Personally, I like the early E-Series engined airplanes. They are lighter
than newer ones and are a delight to fly. The G is the last of the light
weight airplanes. They are wonderful machines. Unfortunately, they are also
a
bit more difficult to maintain. The skins are thinner, the tail is built
differently and the engine is hard to find parts for.
Anyone who owns such a machine will need to be a real scrounger to be able
to keep maintenance costs within reason. It can be done, but it is not easy.
If you are experienced in aircraft ownership and do feel that you realize
all of the pitfalls of owning an older machine, go for it! You will fall in love
with the machine.
However, if you just want to get something you can fly and spend minimal
time and funds on maintenance, buy something newer. An S35, or later, would
probably be a better long term investment if you want to just fly it for a while
and then sell.
Personally, I would suggest that you get your instrument rating in a fixed
gear, fixed pitch propellor, airplane. Training puts a lot of extra wear on a
sophisticated machine.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
In a message dated 5/10/2005 8:00:35 A.M. Central Standard Time,
hodde@olcwireless.net writes:
I'm new to the list.
I am looking at a 1956 G35. During the prebuy, the compressions were really
lousy: 64, 56, 44, 22, 58, 30, but my A&P who is familiar with the airplane
thinks it just sat too long after being flown and taxi'ed with the cowl
flaps closed. He thinks he can pull the cylinders and replace the rings and
clean up the pistons and have it flying. It also needs a new windshield and
he's recommending I upgrade to a late model windshield.
He says the airframe is the cleanest G35 I'll find. New gear motor on one
side. Working Beech wing leveler, Hangarred for years.
Other than that, the airplane is fine.
It has a weak older panel, ugly, but intact paint and a weak but serviceable
interior. The price is a bargain, ($45,000) but I have heard so many times
not to buy a fixer-upper.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a G35 |
--> Beech-List message posted by: "Tom Henderson" <thender@adelphia.net>
Doug-
Bob has given you a lot of good advice.
The American Bonanza Society has a pre-buy checklist that they will give to
you even if you are not a member. So go to www.bonanza.org and follow the
instructions. Better yet, join today and you'll be able to download it
immediately. It provides a lot of insight into troublespots that many
mechanics miss.
Second, be very wary of the low compression numbers. If you end up
replacing cylinders, you are looking at something like $1500 each.
If you really get serious about buying this plane, bite the bullet and pay
for an annual inspection done by the mechanic you will use to maintain it if
you buy it. Pre-buys are nice, but often miss major expenses. Paying for
an annual now makes sure you don't have any major surprises in the first
year of ownership.
At the very least, find another mechanic that can do a borescope inspection
of those cylinders.
A new windshield is ~$5k.
Maintaining a 50 year old airplane requires a significant investment in time
an energy. Go in with your eyes open.
-Tom Henderson
Ventura, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Hodde" <hodde@olcwireless.net>
Subject: Beech-List: Buying a G35
> --> Beech-List message posted by: "Doug Hodde" <hodde@olcwireless.net>
>
> Greetings Guys
>
> I'm new to the list.
>
> I am looking at a 1956 G35. During the prebuy, the compressions were
> really
> lousy: 64, 56, 44, 22, 58, 30, but my A&P who is familiar with the
> airplane
> thinks it just sat too long after being flown and taxi'ed with the cowl
> flaps closed. He thinks he can pull the cylinders and replace the rings
> and
> clean up the pistons and have it flying. It also needs a new windshield
> and
> he's recommending I upgrade to a late model windshield.
>
> He says the airframe is the cleanest G35 I'll find. New gear motor on one
> side. Working Beech wing leveler, Hangarred for years.
>
> Other than that, the airplane is fine.
>
> It has a weak older panel, ugly, but intact paint and a weak but
> serviceable
> interior. The price is a bargain, ($45,000) but I have heard so many
> times
> not to buy a fixer-upper.
>
> My goal is just to build retact time in it, and possibly get my instrument
> rating. I really wasn't planning on upgrading it much, just using it for
> some 200-300 mile trips I commonly make. I would probably sell it in 3-5
> years
>
> Your opinions and input would be helpful. Thanks - Doug
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a G35 |
--> Beech-List message posted by: "Tom Henderson" <thender@adelphia.net>
One more thought-
At the very least, have the cylinders repaired PRIOR to purchase. Don't
even think of buying the plane until it is in flyable condition.
-Tom Henderson
Ventura, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Henderson" <thender@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Buying a G35
> --> Beech-List message posted by: "Tom Henderson" <thender@adelphia.net>
>
> Doug-
>
> Bob has given you a lot of good advice.
>
> The American Bonanza Society has a pre-buy checklist that they will give
> to
> you even if you are not a member. So go to www.bonanza.org and follow the
> instructions. Better yet, join today and you'll be able to download it
> immediately. It provides a lot of insight into troublespots that many
> mechanics miss.
>
> Second, be very wary of the low compression numbers. If you end up
> replacing cylinders, you are looking at something like $1500 each.
>
> If you really get serious about buying this plane, bite the bullet and pay
> for an annual inspection done by the mechanic you will use to maintain it
> if
> you buy it. Pre-buys are nice, but often miss major expenses. Paying for
> an annual now makes sure you don't have any major surprises in the first
> year of ownership.
>
> At the very least, find another mechanic that can do a borescope
> inspection
> of those cylinders.
>
> A new windshield is ~$5k.
>
> Maintaining a 50 year old airplane requires a significant investment in
> time
> an energy. Go in with your eyes open.
>
> -Tom Henderson
> Ventura, CA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Hodde" <hodde@olcwireless.net>
> To: <beech-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Beech-List: Buying a G35
>
>
>> --> Beech-List message posted by: "Doug Hodde" <hodde@olcwireless.net>
>>
>> Greetings Guys
>>
>> I'm new to the list.
>>
>> I am looking at a 1956 G35. During the prebuy, the compressions were
>> really
>> lousy: 64, 56, 44, 22, 58, 30, but my A&P who is familiar with the
>> airplane
>> thinks it just sat too long after being flown and taxi'ed with the cowl
>> flaps closed. He thinks he can pull the cylinders and replace the rings
>> and
>> clean up the pistons and have it flying. It also needs a new windshield
>> and
>> he's recommending I upgrade to a late model windshield.
>>
>> He says the airframe is the cleanest G35 I'll find. New gear motor on
>> one
>> side. Working Beech wing leveler, Hangarred for years.
>>
>> Other than that, the airplane is fine.
>>
>> It has a weak older panel, ugly, but intact paint and a weak but
>> serviceable
>> interior. The price is a bargain, ($45,000) but I have heard so many
>> times
>> not to buy a fixer-upper.
>>
>> My goal is just to build retact time in it, and possibly get my
>> instrument
>> rating. I really wasn't planning on upgrading it much, just using it for
>> some 200-300 mile trips I commonly make. I would probably sell it in 3-5
>> years
>>
>> Your opinions and input would be helpful. Thanks - Doug
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> Beech-List message posted by: "Marcos Della" <mdella@cstone.com>
Just to add to the notes, unless you also intend on doing a lot of work with your
mechanic, the cost of that first annual can skyrocket right out the door.
I had an engine that was in (what appeared to be) good shape. Had good compressions,
etc. But about a month after having the plane, the intake valve on #4
started sticking when the oil was below 80 degrees (making for hard 5 cylindar
starts). Finally got a borescope and started looking down all the cylindars
only to discover that three of them had significant oil . Turns out the other
three had been replaced about 150 hrs previously... Ended up being about $500
a cylinder (for the core/rebuilds since all three were also cracked) + the hours...
something like another $2k... and I got lucky that another guy on the field
had three cores that he gave me in exchange for some radio stuff I had laying
around.
Mine is a C35 (my second one) and I love the plane. But this one, just like the
last one, required significant work on my part to do cleanup, going through
and replacing worn bushings in various areas, repairing broken zerk fittings,
replacing O-rings throughout the gear, replacing old wiring (especially old greasy/cut
RG-58 cable with RG-400), etc.
I think my plane was on jacks for about 3 months with me working about 2-3 six
hour days cleaning and repairing 50+ years of "cruft" :). Fortunately when I
got the plane, there were a TON of mods on it that I could have never afforded
on my own that made the plane worth a little more in price to me :-) Especially
the complete replacement of the panel AND the 337 that went with it :-)
45k for a G35 sounds a little high in the condition you are stating, but who knows.
I don't know what the market is these days for the plane. Hopefully other
than compression, your engine has low time.
Good Luck! Owning a bonanza is a pleasure. Even with all the work you do, flying
the plane is enjoyable far beyond most other single engine plane's that I've
flown. Its a fantastic mix if you do any cross country flying (I typically
fly from the bay area down to the mexican border or over to the Phoenix area
myself)
Marcos Della
C35 - N5877C
________________________________
From: owner-beech-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tom Henderson
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Buying a G35
--> Beech-List message posted by: "Tom Henderson" <thender@adelphia.net>
One more thought-
At the very least, have the cylinders repaired PRIOR to purchase. Don't
even think of buying the plane until it is in flyable condition.
-Tom Henderson
Ventura, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Henderson" <thender@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Beech-List: Buying a G35
> --> Beech-List message posted by: "Tom Henderson" <thender@adelphia.net>
>
> Doug-
>
> Bob has given you a lot of good advice.
>
> The American Bonanza Society has a pre-buy checklist that they will give
> to
> you even if you are not a member. So go to www.bonanza.org and follow the
> instructions. Better yet, join today and you'll be able to download it
> immediately. It provides a lot of insight into troublespots that many
> mechanics miss.
>
> Second, be very wary of the low compression numbers. If you end up
> replacing cylinders, you are looking at something like $1500 each.
>
> If you really get serious about buying this plane, bite the bullet and pay
> for an annual inspection done by the mechanic you will use to maintain it
> if
> you buy it. Pre-buys are nice, but often miss major expenses. Paying for
> an annual now makes sure you don't have any major surprises in the first
> year of ownership.
>
> At the very least, find another mechanic that can do a borescope
> inspection
> of those cylinders.
>
> A new windshield is ~$5k.
>
> Maintaining a 50 year old airplane requires a significant investment in
> time
> an energy. Go in with your eyes open.
>
> -Tom Henderson
> Ventura, CA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Hodde" <hodde@olcwireless.net>
> To: <beech-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Beech-List: Buying a G35
>
>
>> --> Beech-List message posted by: "Doug Hodde" <hodde@olcwireless.net>
>>
>> Greetings Guys
>>
>> I'm new to the list.
>>
>> I am looking at a 1956 G35. During the prebuy, the compressions were
>> really
>> lousy: 64, 56, 44, 22, 58, 30, but my A&P who is familiar with the
>> airplane
>> thinks it just sat too long after being flown and taxi'ed with the cowl
>> flaps closed. He thinks he can pull the cylinders and replace the rings
>> and
>> clean up the pistons and have it flying. It also needs a new windshield
>> and
>> he's recommending I upgrade to a late model windshield.
>>
>> He says the airframe is the cleanest G35 I'll find. New gear motor on
>> one
>> side. Working Beech wing leveler, Hangarred for years.
>>
>> Other than that, the airplane is fine.
>>
>> It has a weak older panel, ugly, but intact paint and a weak but
>> serviceable
>> interior. The price is a bargain, ($45,000) but I have heard so many
>> times
>> not to buy a fixer-upper.
>>
>> My goal is just to build retact time in it, and possibly get my
>> instrument
>> rating. I really wasn't planning on upgrading it much, just using it for
>> some 200-300 mile trips I commonly make. I would probably sell it in 3-5
>> years
>>
>> Your opinions and input would be helpful. Thanks - Doug
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Buying a G35 |
--> Beech-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
You should go to the Continental engines website and
see what the specs are for a cylinder leak down check,
as opposed to a compression check. I would also take
out the top spark plugs and over the course of a few
days put marvel mystery oil in the cylinders when they
are at TDC and let sit for 24 hours to clean the crud
out. It is also possible to ream valve guides without
removing cylinders. Continentals hate to sit, flying
the plane a few hours could make a big difference.
With regular flying and tlc you will get your purchase
price back from the airplane in a few years. definetly
spring for a new beryl d shannon front canopy, that
will make a big difference at resale time..
If the airplane and engine, components etc. are
relatively low time, no leaking fuel bladders, etc.
you may have a good deal..
I went through all this when I got my A35. As an A&P,
shop owner (TCM Link, no less) and general sucker for
a nice Bonanza I can verify that that they are
absolutely the best bang for the buck in the single
engine market. I for sure would buy and restore a
Bonanza before I built a kitplane.
... But if you just want a cheap retract ride buy an
Arrow.
-Robert Starnes 678-457-8377
--- Doug Hodde <hodde@olcwireless.net> wrote:
> --> Beech-List message posted by: "Doug Hodde"
> <hodde@olcwireless.net>
>
> Greetings Guys
>
> I'm new to the list.
>
> I am looking at a 1956 G35. During the prebuy, the
> compressions were really
> lousy: 64, 56, 44, 22, 58, 30, but my A&P who is
> familiar with the airplane
> thinks it just sat too long after being flown and
> taxi'ed with the cowl
> flaps closed. He thinks he can pull the cylinders
> and replace the rings and
> clean up the pistons and have it flying. It also
> needs a new windshield and
> he's recommending I upgrade to a late model
> windshield.
>
> He says the airframe is the cleanest G35 I'll find.
> New gear motor on one
> side. Working Beech wing leveler, Hangarred for
> years.
>
> Other than that, the airplane is fine.
>
> It has a weak older panel, ugly, but intact paint
> and a weak but serviceable
> interior. The price is a bargain, ($45,000) but I
> have heard so many times
> not to buy a fixer-upper.
>
> My goal is just to build retact time in it, and
> possibly get my instrument
> rating. I really wasn't planning on upgrading it
> much, just using it for
> some 200-300 mile trips I commonly make. I would
> probably sell it in 3-5
> years
>
> Your opinions and input would be helpful. Thanks -
> Doug
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Beech-List message posted by: jim aitken <matrix02@shaw.ca>
You can't get a better airplane than the original Bonanzas! Speed, comfort, stability,
economy, performance is all there. I refurbished and modernized my A35
from the ground up and would not want another type. 143 knots @ 10 gph of mogas
is better than a Mooney. But mechanical skills and ability to tinker are a
required ownership attributes.
Jim Aitken C-GBII
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