Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:35 AM - brake pads (Frits Abbing)
2. 04:28 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Bow)
3. 04:52 AM - Anybody want a B-727?? CHEAP!!! (JETPAUL@aol.com)
4. 07:20 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Barshalom@aol.com)
5. 07:28 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Barshalom@aol.com)
6. 07:35 AM - Re: Apendix horse (Barry.Collman@airclaims.co.uk)
7. 08:10 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Chris Schuermann)
8. 08:32 AM - Re: brake pads (MarcioK@aol.com)
9. 08:43 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Barshalom@aol.com)
10. 09:09 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Howard Windham)
11. 10:24 AM - Oil Filters (Chris Wall)
12. 10:35 AM - Re: Oil Filters (Howard Windham)
13. 10:56 AM - Re: Oil Filters (MarcioK@aol.com)
14. 12:23 PM - Re: Oil Filters (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
15. 03:36 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (n414c)
16. 04:04 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
17. 04:42 PM - Re: brake pads (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
18. 04:50 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
19. 04:54 PM - Re: Oil Filters (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
20. 05:12 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
21. 05:16 PM - change of address (Val Brady)
22. 05:24 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Chris Schuermann)
23. 06:38 PM - Re: brake pads (Bill Hamilton)
24. 06:49 PM - Re: brake pads (Bill Hamilton)
25. 06:51 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Leon Stovall)
26. 06:55 PM - Re: Oil Filters (Bill Hamilton)
27. 08:01 PM - Re: brake pads (Bow)
28. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Apendix horse (Bow)
29. 08:09 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (MarcioK@aol.com)
30. 08:26 PM - List of Contributors #1 - A Special Thank You... (Matt Dralle)
31. 09:52 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (CloudCraft@aol.com)
32. 10:41 PM - Re: brake pads (Nico van Niekerk)
33. 11:19 PM - Archives Now Available! (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Frits Abbing <fritsabbing@yahoo.com>
Hello Commanderfans,
Is there a shop or center where they have brake
pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock.
And for a normal price.
I need 6 on each side so total 24.
Contact with a shop: factory can deliver those after
22 weeks.???
Another shop was trying to (over)charge $ 185 a pad.
If "they" are trying this way for us to maintain AC's
it will be the wrong one.
Frits Abbing
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" <w.bow@att.net>
> Next you'll tell us you own a boat and have a wife.
Yup.
bilbo
Message 3
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| Subject: | Anybody want a B-727?? CHEAP!!! |
--> Commander-List message posted by: JETPAUL@aol.com
Here is what appears to be the real deal. Or maybe it's a scam?? I might
like to live in a 727 for only 65,000 bucks!! If I ever get divorced again I
am all over this one. Check it out at Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789717707
JetPaul
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com
OK Chris,
Here's another question. Say you have IO 540's that are ready for major
overhaul/replacement. Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man
that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated
with turbo- or super-charged engines.
I have heard of Colemill, Mr. RPM, etc., conversions or replacements and have
also heard of a "pancake" 8 cyl and also an automotive V-8 replacement
engines for the 500 series AC. Your thoughts?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com
bilbo,
What is an "Apendix" horse?
Bill in TN
N69PT
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Apendix horse |
03/12/2002 15:34:18
--> Commander-List message posted by: Barry.Collman@airclaims.co.uk
Hi gang!
An Appendix is something found at the back of a book.
So my guess, and admittedly, that's all it is :-) is that:
An Apendix horse is one which always finishes last in a race, i.e. at the
back.
Aren't you all glad you're saddled with me!
I'll stop now before I really get the bit between my teeth!
Best Regards,
Barry
Barshalom@aol.com
Sent by: To: commander-list@matronics.com
owner-commander-list-server@ma cc:
tronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List:
560E vs 500B
03/12/2002 15:27
Please respond to
commander-list
--> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com
bilbo,
What is an "Apendix" horse?
Bill in TN
N69PT
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <chris@skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Barshalom@aol.com wrote:
> Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man
> that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
There are really only two options on the market right now: The MRRPM
IO-720 conversion (400hp) and the Merlyn package (350hp). The Orenda V8
just isn't available at this time, but hopefully will be some time in
the future. The Colemill package is a 300hp Continental. Colemill no
longer does this mod nor would the performance by close to a geared 540.
If you're talking about a replacement for an IG(S)O-540, you are
talking about a 680Fxx airframe. The MRRPM conversion is the only one
currently certified for that model although the Merlyn probably could be
with some effort.
Comparing the IG(S)O-540 with an IO-720 is an interesting excercise.
Although the 720 is rated at a slightly higher HP, the GO-540 still
produces more static thrust (almost 900 ft/lbs torque at the
propshaft!). The 720 has a HUGE advantage in fuel specifics. At the
same HP, it burns just over half the fuel. It's also a 2000 hr TBO
engine. The existing 720 STC utilizes a sub-optimal prop which robs the
airplane of some of it's potential performance. Supposedly, there is
work going on to approve a new prop with this package but I have no
details at this time. With a well-matched prop, the 720 should provide
similar takeoff and climb performance with superior top speed when
compared to the 540.
Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without
turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on though).
Chris
Message 8
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
Dear Frits
Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have them
made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be able to
hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new" pad
you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending on
how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a piece.
Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They sell
parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge you
$15 a piece.
Good luck
Marcio
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com
So, it seems that you are saying that a MrRPM IO 720 is the way to go:
direct drive prop that is not currently well-matched to the AC500 but is
supposed to be being replaced with an STC prop upgrade soon
400HP
should give more takeoff and climb as well as top speed performance
available with turbo
direct replacement for IO 540 (by the way, you only have to worry about the
crank gear bolt AD if you have a yellow one -bolt that is. Most people don't
and it is easy to determine if you do from logs.)
I will keep the IO 540's as they have only 500 hours on them. They work good
and I get 170 knots TAS at 23 squared in my 500B with them. And I like the
simplicity of operation with the IO 540's because I don't have to deal with
rpm and temperature management like I would with gears and turbo chargers.
KISS works best for me.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Bill in TN
N69PT
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Howard Windham" <bw_cycon@yahoo.com>
Hey Chris, what's your land line number. Have a question to ask off
line. Buddy. My mobile number is 616 497-0854 or office at 616 896-6588
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann
--> <chris@skymaster.c2-tech.com>
Barshalom@aol.com wrote:
> Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man
> that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
There are really only two options on the market right now: The MRRPM
IO-720 conversion (400hp) and the Merlyn package (350hp). The Orenda V8
just isn't available at this time, but hopefully will be some time in
the future. The Colemill package is a 300hp Continental. Colemill no
longer does this mod nor would the performance by close to a geared 540.
If you're talking about a replacement for an IG(S)O-540, you are
talking about a 680Fxx airframe. The MRRPM conversion is the only one
currently certified for that model although the Merlyn probably could be
with some effort.
Comparing the IG(S)O-540 with an IO-720 is an interesting excercise.
Although the 720 is rated at a slightly higher HP, the GO-540 still
produces more static thrust (almost 900 ft/lbs torque at the
propshaft!). The 720 has a HUGE advantage in fuel specifics. At the
same HP, it burns just over half the fuel. It's also a 2000 hr TBO
engine. The existing 720 STC utilizes a sub-optimal prop which robs the
airplane of some of it's potential performance. Supposedly, there is
work going on to approve a new prop with this package but I have no
details at this time. With a well-matched prop, the 720 should provide
similar takeoff and climb performance with superior top speed when
compared to the 540.
Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without
turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on
though).
Chris
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 11
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Chris Wall" <cwall@worldflight2000.com>
Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A. Right
now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between the engine
and the oil cooler.
Message 12
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Howard Windham" <bw_cycon@yahoo.com>
My 560e has airwolf fileters, the work fine mounting on the firewall. My
only suggestion is to make sure you change the filter with warm metal.
Make the unscrewing go a lot easier with out flexing the firewall. Even
with the backing plate you still get movement on the bracket.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Wall
Subject: Commander-List: Oil Filters
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Chris Wall"
--> <cwall@worldflight2000.com>
Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A.
Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between
the engine and the oil cooler.
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 13
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
Dear Chris
I chose AIRWOLF instead of ADC just because it was the only one STCd for the
720 but after really comparing both I regret my decision. The bracket is
small, and won't fit in the holes in the firewall. To compensate for the
bracket thickness and absorb vibrations, they send a piece of hose you're
supposed to tie around the cartridge with a clamp.
Try to get your hands on both, before deciding. ADC is much stronger, the
head is cast with kind of a nut that helps holding the unit for removing a
tight filter, and has provision for a chip detector. I think that even at the
expense of a field approval, you'll be better served.
Cheers
Marcio
Message 14
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Chris,
On my 680F(p) we installed the Airwolf filters in the rear sections of the
nacelles (outboard of the wheels when they are retracted) and got a one time
field approval as there was no STC. You might consider the "other brand," as
the top of the
Airwolf filter housing is round, and removing a filter which has 'stuck' at
the gasket can be a bit tricky as there is no way to get a wrench on the top,
and it will twist the mounting surface (firewall or whatever it is bolted to).
Moe Mills
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" <n414c@direcway.com>
> that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
> maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated
> with turbo- or super-charged engines.
>
__There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared,
turbo/supercharged engines.
Just operate them correctly.
Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with
these engines.
Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability.
Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues"
Milt
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
When I first started looking at Commanders, just about EVERYONE said "stay
away from geared engines". Morris Kernick gave me sound advice about the
proper operation of geared engines, and I have been happy with mine now for
4 years and about 500 hours. In fact, the extra care and forethought
required to operate these engines (like planning AHEAD for let downs,
stablized approaches, proper ground operations, etc.) has made me a MUCH
better pilot.
I wouldn't trade the last 500 hours for any other airplane...well, maybe a
nice Dash 10 690B would be nice.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
----- Original Message -----
From: "n414c" <n414c@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" <n414c@direcway.com>
>
>
> > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
> > maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns
associated
> > with turbo- or super-charged engines.
> >
> __There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared,
> turbo/supercharged engines.
> Just operate them correctly.
> Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with
> these engines.
>
> Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
> there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
>
> Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability.
>
> Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues"
>
> Milt
>
>
Message 17
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 12/3/2002 12:36:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fritsabbing@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Is there a shop or center where they have brake
> pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock.
HI FRITZ.Try Kenmore Hir Harbor, Seattle WA. Have the part # ready. They
fit Beavers. Ask for Joe. INSTALL CLEVELANDS ASAP!!! jb
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 12/3/2002 8:10:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
chris@skymaster.c2-tech.com writes:
> Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
> geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without
> turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on though).
>
OK, I CANT STAND IT ANY LONGER!!! There is NO direct drive engine that will
perform beside it's geared counterpart, none. There is absolutely nothing
wrong with a geared aircraft engine. Turbine engines are geared, P-51s are
geared, all large radial engines are geared, ultra lights are geared your car
is geared even the blender on your kitchen counter is geared. In fact, the
only "non geared" piece of machinery you are likely to own is you airplane
and........your lawnmower!! Treat them right, they are unbeatable. :-)
jb
Message 19
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 12/3/2002 10:25:45 AM Pacific Standard Time,
cwall@worldflight2000.com writes:
> Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A.
> Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between
> the engine and the oil cooler.
HI CHRIS...Contact Gary at Commander Aero, Good luck. jb
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Milt is correct. If you have an engine out on take off that 380 HP on the
runner sure does feel good.
Moe Mills
Message 21
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| Subject: | change of address |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Val Brady" <valbrady@thegrid.net>
Please change Dan Brady's email addy from valbrady@thegrid.net to westwindaero@lycos.com.
Val bought me my very own computer so I can now get my very own mail. As soon as
I get caught up, I'll contribute my share.
Dan Brady
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <chris@skymaster.c2-tech.com>
YOURTCFG@aol.com wrote:
>>Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the
>>geared 540's
>
> OK, I CANT STAND IT ANY LONGER!!! There is NO direct drive engine that will
> perform beside it's geared counterpart, none.
Calm down my friend...the world isn't coming to an end - truely...
Nobody said anything bad about geared engines. I think pretty much
everyone would agree that they out-perform the non-geared alternatives.
The question was simply: what are the alternatives to geared 540's.
As far as I know, the MRRPM IO720 conversion is the only thing you can
actually go buy today. Please add other options that you may know of.
chris
Message 23
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton <fighterf@ozemail.com.au>
Fritz,
This is the reason the Cleveland conversions are so popular, at this price,
it doesn't take long to pay for the Clevelands.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 12:34 AM 3/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: Frits Abbing <fritsabbing@yahoo.com>
>
>Hello Commanderfans,
>
>Is there a shop or center where they have brake
>pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock.
>And for a normal price.
>I need 6 on each side so total 24.
>Contact with a shop: factory can deliver those after
>22 weeks.???
>Another shop was trying to (over)charge $ 185 a pad.
>If "they" are trying this way for us to maintain AC's
>it will be the wrong one.
>
>Frits Abbing
>
>
Message 24
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton <fighterf@ozemail.com.au>
All,
If you go this route, and the aircraft is in anything but Experimental Cat.
of some kind, make certain you have the FAR Part 21 requirements covered,
or the pads you use are otherwise approved, making brake pads does not come
under the heading of manufacturing parts in the course of maintenance ( FAR
Part 43).
Insurance companies are not on your side, if the TCDS and C of A have been
invalidated.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 11:31 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
>
>Dear Frits
>
>Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have them
>made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be able to
>hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new" pad
>you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending on
>how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a piece.
>
>Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They sell
>parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge you
>$15 a piece.
>
>Good luck
>
>Marcio
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Leon Stovall" <lstovall@cfl.rr.com>
Way to go Milt!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "n414c" <n414c@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" <n414c@direcway.com>
>
>
> > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared
> > maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns
associated
> > with turbo- or super-charged engines.
> >
> __There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared,
> turbo/supercharged engines.
> Just operate them correctly.
> Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with
> these engines.
>
> Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
> there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
>
> Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability.
>
> Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues"
>
> Milt
>
>
Message 26
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton <fighterf@ozemail.com.au>
Chris,
Go for one of the systems that uses spin on filters such as Champion, any
of the mesh screen types only stop rock and small babies.
Seriously, for good filtration and convenience, the spin on is the only way
to go. I have some experience of both, in my opinion it is no contest.
A common modification is to run the lines from an adapter through the
firewall, and put the filter canister on the aft side, this solves an space
problems immediately behind the engine.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 01:26 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Chris Wall" <cwall@worldflight2000.com>
>
>Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a
>560A. Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall
>between the engine and the oil cooler.
>
>
Message 27
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" <w.bow@att.net>
> HI FRITZ.Try Kenmore Hir Harbor, Seattle WA. Have the part # ready. They
> fit Beavers. Ask for Joe. INSTALL CLEVELANDS ASAP!!! jb
BOY, Fritz is sure getting more options than I did when I asked the same
question.
bilbo:>(
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Apendix horse |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" <w.bow@att.net>
> An Appendix is something found at the back of a book.
>
> So my guess, and admittedly, that's all it is :-) is that:
>
> An Apendix horse is one which always finishes last in a race, i.e. at the
> back.
>
> Aren't you all glad you're saddled with me!
> I'll stop now before I really get the bit between my teeth!
===========================================
An Appendix horse is half Quarterhorse and half Thoroughbred. That
translates into Tall and Smart(smart being a VERY relative term).
bilbo
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
That's it, Jim !
Message 30
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| Subject: | List of Contributors #1 - A Special Thank You... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
First let me say Thank You to everyone that made a Contribution in support
of the Lists this year! I was particularly touched by all of the wonderful
comments people made regarding the Lists and how much they mean to
them. As I have said many times before, running these Lists and creating
the many new features is truly a labor of love. This is why your comments
of support and appreciation have particular meaning for me. Your
generosity during this time of List support only underscores the delightful
sentiments people have made regarding the Lists.
The money raised during this year's Fund Raiser will go directly into
supporting the continued operation of the Lists as well as some much needed
upgrades. For example, I have just ordered three new UPS systems to
replaced the currently failing and out-of-warranty older units. These new
units will provide well over 3 hours of backup protection during an outage
and assure that the computer systems will be shutdown in a safe and orderly
fashion. I have also ordered a new backup system that will provide 60 days
of on line, daily backups for all of systems supporting the List
services. This regular backup capability serves to rigorously protect
against the inevitable system disk failure or the (not-so) "unlikely"
errant event of the rogue "rm *" command...(!) Last year, using resources
generated by the Fund Raiser, I was able to upgrade the Web server
platform, greatly enhancing the performance of the many services such as
the Archive Search Engine, as well as increasing the system reliability
through newer equipment. During the upcoming year, using Contributions
from this year's Fund Raiser, I hope to upgrade the Email System in a
similar fashion, providing Listers with substantial increases in
performance and availability. Know that all of these enhancements are
remotely feasible ONLY because of your generosity during the List Fund
Raiser. For this, both I, and the rest of the List population thank you!
I would also once again like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) who so generously supported this year's
Fund Raiser with both free and substantially discounted merchandise!! Andy
is truly one of a kind, and a superb businessman, and I cannot thank him
enough for all that he's done! If you have any aircraft media needs in the
near future, I would ask that you please give his great web site a
look. Thanks again Andy, for all your support!
And finally, below you will find the 2002 List of Contributors current as
of 12/3/02! Have a look at the list of names there as these are the people
that make all of the services here possible! I can't thank you all enough
for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU!
I will post a follow up List of Contributors at the end of the month to
catch any straggles or people who mailed in checks. There are still a few
of the various Free Gifts left, so please feel free to yet make your
Contribution and get a great Free Gift to-boot! Once again, the URL for
the Contributions web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I will be shipping out the CDROM-Only orders later this week. The
remaining Flight Bag-Only and all of the Flight Bag & CDROM orders will
ship out as soon as I receive the second shipment of flight bags. The A&P
Book orders will go out later this month. I will post again regarding the
actual shipment of the various items.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
------------------- 2002 List of Contributors #1 -----------------
Adams, Brian
Adams, Robert
Addington, James
Alber, John
Alexander, Don
Alexander, George
Allen, George
Altenhein, Gary
Amundsen, Blair
Amundson, John
Andrepont, Dirk
Andrews, Myles
Applefeld, Gerald
Armstrong, Christopher
Aronson, David
Ashton, Kent
Aspegren, Roger
Atkinson, Harold
Austin, David
Awad, Ihab
Babb, Tony
Bahrns, Stan
Baker, Jim
Baker, Owen
Ballenger, Jim
Barnes, Thomas
Bartrim, S.Todd
Basiliere, Rick
Bassette, Richard
Bataller, Gary
Batte, W.Granville
Bean, James
Bean, Robert
Beard, Harley
Bell, Bruce
Benham, Dallas
Benjamin, Hal
Benson, Lonnie
Bergeron, Daniel
Bergner, Lee
Bernard, William
Bernier, Jim
Bertelli, John
Bertrand, Carl
Beusch, Andre
Bidle, Jerry
Bieber, Michael
Bieberdorf, Roger
Billing, Ernie
Binzer, Robert
Bird, Carroll
Blahnick, Drew
Blake, J.I.
Blake, Peter
Blomgren, Jack
Boardman, Don
Bockelman, David
Boede, Jon
Bolduc, Richard
Bona, Skip
Bonesteel, Wayne
Bookout, Ralph
Booze, Greg
Borduas, Eric
Boucher, Michel
Bourne, Larry
Bowen, Larry
Bowman, John
Boyter, Wayne
Brame, Charles
Brandon, John
Branstrom, Dan
Brasch, Glenn
Brick, John
Bridges, Glenn
Bridgham, David
Briggs, Tracy
Brocious, Bob
Bromka, Alan
Bronson, Tim
Brooks, Chris
Brooks, John
Brooks, Kenyon
Brooks, William
Broomell, Glenn
Brown, Robert
Buchanan, Sam
Buchmann, Kenneth
Buess, Alfred
Bulot, Larry
Burg, H.R.
Burks, Terrell
Burton, Charlie
Burton, James
Bush, Jerome
Butcher, Ronald
Butler, Francis
Calhoun, Ron
Calloway, Terry
Calvert, Jerry
Cameron, Todd
Cann, Tony
Cantrell, Jimmy
Capen, Ralph
Capestany, Phillip
Carey, Christopher
Carillon, John
CarillonSr., Paul
Carlisle, O.
Carroll, Randy
Carter, Ron
Casey, Jeremy
Challgren, Stanley
Champaign, Philip
Chandler, Charles
Chapman, Tom
Chapple, Glen
Checkoway, Dan
Chesterman, Dave
Christie, Bill
Clark, James
Clark, John
Clinchy, David
Cochran, Stewart
Coffey, John
Cohen, Philip
Coldenhoff, Tim
Cole, Gary
Coley, Howard
Collins, Leland
Colucci, Tony
Comfort, Gordon
Compton, Scott
Condon, Philip
Connell, Joseph
Cook, Craig
Cooper, James
Corbalis, Leo
Corbett, Corky&Isabelle
Corder, Michael
Corriveau, Grant
Cotton, David
Coulter, Annette
Coulter, Carl
Counselman, William
Coursey, William
Cox, Ronald
Craig, John
Cretsinger, Will
Crisp, Steve
Croke, Jon
Crosby, Harry
Crosley, Richard
Cruikshank, Bruce
Cullen, Chuck
Cummings, Tom
Currie, Robert
Dalstrom, Douglas
Dalziel, Donald
Danclovic, Paul
Daniels, Jim
Dascomb, George
Daudt, Larry
Davidson, Jeff
Davis, Jared
Davis, John
Davis, Joseph
Davis, Mark
Davis, Terry
Dawson, Clif
Dawson, William
Day, Jack
Desimone, D.A., Dr
Desimone, David
Desmond, Richard
Devaney, Robert
Diehl, Donald
Dilatush, John
Dionne, Bruno
Dobson, Russell
Dodge, Larry
Donald, Woods
Dondlinger, Leo
Douglas, Lyle
Dresden, Robert
Driscoll, Patrick
Driver, Stuart
Dudley, Richard
Dupon, William
Dupuis, Real
Durr, Wendell
DuVe, Chris
Eagleston, Ron
Eaves, Donald
Eberhart, Steven
Ebsen, Kevin
Eckel, John
Eckenroth, Paul
Edwards, Bruce
Elder, William
Elia, Pete
Ellenberger, Mike
Ellis, Dale
Ervin, Thomas
Erwin, Chip
Escobar, Luis
Esterhuizen, Deon
Evans, Marion
Evans, Walt
Faatz, Mitch
Fackler, Ken
Fair, William
Faris, Kevin
Farley, David
Fasching, John
Fay, John
Feldmann, Stephen
Ferguson, Jay
Finley, John
Fishe, James
Fitzpatrick, Robert
Flamini, Dennis
Foerster, James
Fondevila, Gabriel
Fox, Byron
Fraser, Angus
Fray, Jerry
Frazier, Ford
Freeman, James
Fricke, Walt
Frisby, James
Fromm, John
Frost, George
Fry, John
Frye, Dwight
Frymire, Terry
Fulgham, Bill
Fulmer, Joseph
Fung, Sean
Gardner, Albert
Garner, John
Garrou, Douglas
Gassmann, Andrew
Gates, Leo
Genzlinger, Reade
George, William
German, Mark
Gherkins, Tim
Gibbons, Chip
Gilbert, Mark
Gillespie, R.L.
Gillies, Patty
Glasgow, Steve
Glass, Roy
Goble, Loren
Golden, Dennis
Gonzalez, Manuel
Good, Chris
Gordon, Keith
Gott, Shelby
Goudinoff, Peter
Grabb, Gary
Graham, W.Doyce
Grajek, Al
Graumlich, Thomas
Graumlich, Tom
Grebe, David
Green, Roger
Green, Steven
Greene, Tim
Grentzer, Edward
Griffin, Bill
Griffin, Robert
Guidroz, Thomas
Gummo, Thomas
Gustafson, Aaron
Guthrie, Mark
Haertlein, Frank
Hallsten, Keith
Hallsten, Kent
Hamer, Steve
Hancock, Barry
Hand, Chris
Hankins, Roger
Hanrahan, Jamie
Hansen, Richard
Hanson, Kevin
Hardaway, Mike
Harding, Scott
Hargis, Merle
Harman, Richard
Harmon, John
Harmon, Loren
Harrill, Ken
Harris, John
Harris, Richard
Hart, Daniel
Hart, Jack
Hartl, Paul
Hartselle, Richard
Hartson, Wesley
Hartwig, Richard
Harvey, Dale
Hasper, Jim
Hatch, Pat
Hatcher, Clive
Hatfield, Cecil
Hauck, John
Hawkins, Harry
Hawkins, Larry
Hebb, Loman
Hegler, Freddie
Heisey, Adriel
Henderson, Neil
Herminghaus, John
Herren, William
Herrick, David
Hibbing, William
Hickman, Robert
Hill, Jeff
Hill, Kenneth
Hill, Stanley
Himes, Joe
Himsl, Vincent
Hinrichsen, James
Hodge, Jack
Hodgson, Bob
Hoffman, Allan
Hoffman, Carl
Hoffman, Curtis
Hoffmann, Thomas
Holifield, Stephen
Hooper, Randy
Hoover, Ralph
Hornick, Paul
Horton, Dan
Horton, Kevin
Hubbard, Eugene
Huft, John
Hughes, Robert
Hulen, Fred
Humbert, Robert
Hunger, Norman
Hunsicker, Greg
Hunt, Jim
Hunt, Robin
Hurlbut, Steve
Hutchinson, Harold
Hutchison, Tom
Iii, Henry,
Inman, George
Isaacs, Robert
Isler, Jerry
Jackson, Scott
Jamieson, Richard
Jan, Dejong
Jannakos, Gregory
Jenkins, John
Jensen, Marinus
Jessen, John
Jewell, Jim
Johannsson, Johann
Johnson, Bob
Johnson, Brian
Johnson, Delbert
Johnson, Kerry
Johnson, Lance
Johnson, Murray
Johnson, Richard
Johnson, Steve
Jones, Alvin
Jones, Kevin
Joosten, Craig
Jordan, Don
Jordan, John
Jory, Rick
Jungjr, Johnr
Kahn, Steve
Kaluza, Charles
Karmy, Andrew
Karpinski, Arthur
Kayner, Dennis
Kelley, Jim
Kelley, Patrick
Kellum, Mark
Kempthorne, Hal
Kent, John
Kirby, David
Kleen, Chris & Indira
Knoepflein, Shannon
Knoll, Bruce
Kohn, Carl
Koonce, R.L.
Kovac, Harold
Kowalski, Bruce
Kramer, Ed
Kritzman, Alan
Krok, Peter
Kuntz, Paul
Kuss, Charles
Kwitek, Marty
Kyle, Fegus
Lackwitz, Ray
Laird, Dave
Laird, David
Lamb, Billie
Lamb, Billy
Landmann, Doug
Lannon, Walter
Larsen, Gene
Larson, Joe
Lasecki, Robert
Lassen, Finn
Latimer, Jerry
Laurie, Kip
Lawliss, James
Lawson, John
Ledbetter, Gene
Ledoux, Paul
Lee, Terry
Lefler, Fabian
Lekven, Carl
Lenarz, Michael(mike)
Lenton, Dennis
Lerohl, Gaylen Terminaltown
Lervold, Randy
Lewis, Rufus
Lewis, Terry
Lewis, Tim
Licking, Lawrence
Lifer, Craig
Liming, Gary
Linebaugh, Jeffrey
Linse, Michael
Lloyd, Brian
Loar, Carl
Long, Charles
Long, Eugene
Long, Jim
Longcrier, Thurman
Longino, Dana
Loubert, Gary
Lundborg, Craig
Lundin, Richard
Lundquist, David
Lutgring, Thomas
Lynch, Charles
Macchiaverna, Andrew
Macdonald, Dave
Macdonald, Larry
Mack, Don
Mackay, Alex
Madden, Peter
Mains, Ralph
Malczynski, Francis
Malich, Gunter
Markle, Jim
Markwell, Cleone
Marlow, Sam
Marshall, F.Robert
Marshall, Nigel
Martin, Bryan
Martin, Jay
Martin, Richard
Mason, Ron
Massari, Steve
Mattson, Doug
Maziarz, Dpnald
Mcbride, Duncan
Mccallister, Don
Mccallum, Robert
Mccracken, Ted
Mcfarland, Larry
Mcfarlane, Lloyd
Mcgehee, Tom
Mcgregor, Bruce
Mcintosh, Wayne
Mcintyre, Jay
Mckelvey, David
Mckenna, Mike
Mcleod, Neil
Medeiros, Joel
Medema, Doug
Meiste, Kelly
Mekeel, Donald
Mensink, Will
Merchant, Dean
Messinger, Paul
Metz, Lowell
Meyers, Jess
Meyers, John
Meyn, Wolfgang
Michel, Paul
Milgrom, Mark
Miller, David
Miller, Jim&dondi
Mills, Bill
Minewiser, Jim
Mitchell, Bill
Mitchell, Duane
Mitchell, Graham
Moak, Ken
Montagne, Raymond
Montoure, Ken
Morehead, Cj
Morelli, William
Morgan, Mark
Morin, Mauri
Morison, James
Morley, Harold
Morphis, George
Morrow, Dan
Mosier, Colby
Moulin, Roger
Moyle, John
Mrotzek, Dan
Mucker, Matthew
Mudge, Ronald
Muegge, James
Mueller, Mike
Mulherin, Harold
Murray, Glenn
Murray, Ronald
Murrill, Bob
Myers, John
Natho, Paul
Navratil, Richard
Neilsen, Richard
Neitzel, Richard
Nellis, Mike
Newkirk, Bill
Nicely, Vincent
Nicholas, Kim
Nickless, Jim
Nickson, Dennis
Norman, Jim
North, Wheeler
Noyer, Robert
Nuckolls, Robert
Nystrom, John
O'Brien, Bill
O'Brien, Dan
O'Brien, William
O'Donnell, David
Oberst, James
Ochsner, Doug
Oconnor, Edward
Ohlinger, Judith
Okeefe, Larry
Okeefe, Lawrence
Okrent, Mike
Oldford, David
Orear, Jeff
Orsborn, Thomas
Owens, Don
Owens, Phillip
Packard, Tom
Pardue, Larry
Parham, Bernard
Park, Gene
Parker, Ray
Patsey, Kevin
Patterson, Tim
Payne, Craig
Payne, Ron
Pedersen, Wayne
Pekin, J
Pelletier, Daniel
Perez, M.Domenic
Peterson, Alex
Peterson, David
Petri, David
Petty, Paul
Pflimlin, Paul
Pfundt, Jan
Phillips, Jack
Phillips, Mark
Pickrell, Jim
Pieper, William
Pike, Richard
Pilling, Kevin
Pinneo, George
Pinzon, Pedro
Plecenik, Michael
Point, Jeff
Polits, Dick
Pollard, Jim
Polstra, Philip
Pote, Barry
Powell, Ken
Prather, Matthew
Preston, Douglas
Pribble, Marv
Puckett, Greg
Rabaut, Chuck
Raby, Ronald
Radford, Joe
Ramotowski, Joe
Randolph, George
Ray, Rick
Ray, Rob
Reeck, Arthur
Reed, Gary
Reed, Joel
Reeves, Dan
Render, James
Reuterskiold, John
Rice, Mike
Richard, J.
Richards, Stephen
Risch, Bob
Robert, Larry
Robinson, James
Rodebush, James
Roebuck, Warren
Roehl, Tim
Rogers, Ken
Rohling, William
Romine, Chris
Ron, Dewees
Rosenberg, Ran
Rowe, Dennis
Rozendaal, Doug
Russell, Jack
Sa, Carlos
Safford, Brad
Salter, Phillip
Salzman, Mike
Sapp, Doug
Sargent, Thomas
Sax, Samuel
Schiff, Nathan
Schneider, Werner
Schnurr, Jack
Schoenberger, H.Robert
Schrimmer, Mark
Schroeder, John
Schultz, Davidh
Scott, Clive
Scroggs, Ross
Seal, Boyd
Sears, Jim
Seel, Norman
Selby, Jim
Shackelford, Orie
Shafer, James
Shank, Bill
Shannon, Kevin
Shearing, Garth
Sheets, Doug
Shelton, Kevin
Shepherd, Dallas
Shipley, Rob
Siegfried, Bob
Silva, Oswaldo
Simmons, Ken
Simpson, Randy
Singleton, Graham
Sink, Donald
Sipp, Richard
Slatt, Gary
Small, Jeff
Smith, David
Smith, Gene
Smith, Kirk
Smith, Ronald
Smith, Zed
Sobel, Martin
Sohn, Daniel
Solecki, John
Sower, Jim
Sparks, Timothy
Spence, Stephen
Spencer, Scott
Sprayberry, JR
Sprunger, Gary
Staal, Stephen
Stagg, Lynwood
Staley, Dick
Starn, Jack
Steuber, Edward
Stewart, Don
Stoffers, Larry
Stone, Chris
Strawn, David
Stroberg, David
Strong, Gary
Stuart, Clay
Sullivan, Stan
Sutterfield, Stan
Swaney, Mark
Swanson, Roger
Swanson, Ronald
Swartzendruber, David
Swenson, Guy
Swinford, George
Tasker, Richard
Tauchen, Bryan
Tellet, David
Textor, Jack
Therrien, Michel
Thistlethwaite, Geoff
Thomas, Lee
Thomas, Stephen
Thomason, Michael
Thompson, David
Thorne, Jim
Thwing, Randy
Todd, John
Tompkins, Jeff
Tower, John
Towner, Melvin
Trojan, David
Truitt, Jim
Trumpfheller, Robert
Tupper, Kirby
Turnbull, Tom
Tuton, Beauford
Uniform, Sirs!
Utterback, Tom
Van Laak, Jim
Vanbladeren, Ronald
Vandenbroek, Martin
VanDerSanden, Gert
Vangrunsven, Stanley
Vanwinkle, Alden
Vargas, Javier
Vaughan, Cye
Vervoort-woestenburg, Jef
Voelker, Leonard
Voss, Richard
Wagner, James
Wagoner, Richard
Waldal, ArtB.
Walker, Beau
Walker, Weston
Wall, Chris
Wallen, Arden
Wampler, Jim
Washburn, Oliver
Watson, Richard
Watson, Terry
Weaver, Erich
Weaver, Fred
Webb, Randol
Weiler, Doug
Weiss, Gary
Werner, Russ
Weyant, Chuck
Wheatley, Malcolm
Whelan, Thomas
White, Charles
Whiteside, Eric
Whitman, Timothy
Whittier, Bucky
Whittington, Dewitt
Wilcox, Gary
Williams, Eugene
Williams, Gene
Williams, Laurence
Williams, Terry
Willig, Louis
Willis, Raymond
Wilson, Billy
Wilson, Kelly
Winberry, Bryan
Winne, Edward
Winnings, James
Wittman, James
Woods, Harold
Wotring, Dale
Wright, Roy
Wymer, Gerald
Yamokoski, William
Young, Rollin
Zecherle, John
Zheng, Andrew
Zilik, Gary
Zirges, Malcolm
Zollinger, Duane
Zuniga, Oscar
------------------- 2002 List of Contributors #1 -----------------
DNA: do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 560E vs 500B |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 12/03/02 15:37:07 Pacific Standard Time,
n414c@direcway.com writes:
> Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit
> there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home.
Squishy noises? That's terrific!
From some of the emails, it looked liked someone wanted to change out IO-540
engines on a 500B.
Just to clarify something, the ONLY STC'd engine upgrade for the 500B is the
Merlyn conversion.
The IO-720 / Mr. RPM package was done for the 680F series (as Chris
Schuermann said) and there are, I think, two Shrikes with IO-720s on them.
Can they go on the 500B? Sure. But someone has to do the STC.
Squishy. Indeed.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 32
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
I once had to replace the hub on my straight 500 because something was wrong
with it due to heavy braking (can't remember whether it was a crack or
something else. There are two shells a side, no? Cannot remember.). It used
to be a charter machine before I got hold of it. After that I executed
landings with power on and in a deep stall before touching down and then
kept the stick pulled back until turning off the runway. The Commander is
capable of holding its nosewheel off the runway for a considerable period of
time, acting like a drag-chute.
In the process I never used the brakes again on landing. (Shorter strips
demanded otherwise, of course.) I was amazed at the low speed that the
elevator would still slightly lift the nose, indicating that there is still
a lot of drag in the elevator to slow things down for free.
Before I wised up on the costs of showing nobody everytime how short my AC
would land, I leaned on the brakes, thinking that the cost of rolling to the
next exit on the runway and taxiing back would outstrip the cost of the
brakes. But it didn't. One night while landing in the 680FP I heard the
brakes shuddering. I looked out the window and saw that the rotors were red
hot! Imagine the stress on all the components and the tires too! From that
I know what's happening to the brakes on the big iron when I hear the brakes
shuddering when a pilot tries to go for an earlier exit. Perhaps they have
different criteria.
In my defense, I must say the airport I landed at was 5000' asl, there was
some gusting wind so I landed a bit faster to be sure, and the runway
slanted slightly downhill. It was an eye-opener nevertheless.
I adopted the same landing technique on the Seneca, the Twin Comanche, and
the C182 and it was a pleasant surprize to see the inspections come and go
and no brake pads needed.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Hamilton" <fighterf@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton
<fighterf@ozemail.com.au>
>
> All,
> If you go this route, and the aircraft is in anything but Experimental
Cat.
> of some kind, make certain you have the FAR Part 21 requirements covered,
> or the pads you use are otherwise approved, making brake pads does not
come
> under the heading of manufacturing parts in the course of maintenance (
FAR
> Part 43).
> Insurance companies are not on your side, if the TCDS and C of A have been
> invalidated.
> Cheers,
> Bill Hamilton.
>
>
> At 11:31 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
> >
> >Dear Frits
> >
> >Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have
them
> >made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be
able to
> >hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new"
pad
> >you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending
on
> >how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a
piece.
> >
> >Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They
sell
> >parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge
you
> >$15 a piece.
> >
> >Good luck
> >
> >Marcio
> >
> >
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Archives Now Available! |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hello Commander Listers,
Nico was kind enough to upload the Commander List archives all the way back
to April of 2001. I wrote some code today to convert them to the format my
system uses, stripped out a whole wad of advertisements and other stuff,
and just finished putting them on line for Searching, Browsing, and
Downloading!
The two main pages of interest include the Searching Page and the Archive
page. The URLs for these are respectively:
http://www.matronics.com/search (be sure to select the Commander archive!)
and
http://www.matronics.com/archives
These two links and a number of others can always be found in the List
Email Trailer below.
Thank you, Nico, for taking the time to save all those messages and for
getting them to me! Don't forget to email the all the List photos
to pictures@matronics.com and I'll see that all of them get up on the
Photoshare page as well!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
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