---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/03/02: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:35 AM - brake pads (Frits Abbing) 2. 04:28 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Bow) 3. 04:52 AM - Anybody want a B-727?? CHEAP!!! (JETPAUL@aol.com) 4. 07:20 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Barshalom@aol.com) 5. 07:28 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Barshalom@aol.com) 6. 07:35 AM - Re: Apendix horse (Barry.Collman@airclaims.co.uk) 7. 08:10 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Chris Schuermann) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: brake pads (MarcioK@aol.com) 9. 08:43 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Barshalom@aol.com) 10. 09:09 AM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Howard Windham) 11. 10:24 AM - Oil Filters (Chris Wall) 12. 10:35 AM - Re: Oil Filters (Howard Windham) 13. 10:56 AM - Re: Oil Filters (MarcioK@aol.com) 14. 12:23 PM - Re: Oil Filters (MOEMILLS@aol.com) 15. 03:36 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (n414c) 16. 04:04 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 17. 04:42 PM - Re: brake pads (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 18. 04:50 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 19. 04:54 PM - Re: Oil Filters (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 20. 05:12 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (MOEMILLS@aol.com) 21. 05:16 PM - change of address (Val Brady) 22. 05:24 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Chris Schuermann) 23. 06:38 PM - Re: brake pads (Bill Hamilton) 24. 06:49 PM - Re: brake pads (Bill Hamilton) 25. 06:51 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (Leon Stovall) 26. 06:55 PM - Re: Oil Filters (Bill Hamilton) 27. 08:01 PM - Re: brake pads (Bow) 28. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Apendix horse (Bow) 29. 08:09 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (MarcioK@aol.com) 30. 08:26 PM - List of Contributors #1 - A Special Thank You... (Matt Dralle) 31. 09:52 PM - Re: 560E vs 500B (CloudCraft@aol.com) 32. 10:41 PM - Re: brake pads (Nico van Niekerk) 33. 11:19 PM - Archives Now Available! (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:30 AM PST US From: Frits Abbing Subject: Commander-List: brake pads --> Commander-List message posted by: Frits Abbing Hello Commanderfans, Is there a shop or center where they have brake pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock. And for a normal price. I need 6 on each side so total 24. Contact with a shop: factory can deliver those after 22 weeks.??? Another shop was trying to (over)charge $ 185 a pad. If "they" are trying this way for us to maintain AC's it will be the wrong one. Frits Abbing ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:10 AM PST US From: "Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" > Next you'll tell us you own a boat and have a wife. Yup. bilbo ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:23 AM PST US From: JETPAUL@aol.com Subject: Commander-List: Anybody want a B-727?? CHEAP!!! --> Commander-List message posted by: JETPAUL@aol.com Here is what appears to be the real deal. Or maybe it's a scam?? I might like to live in a 727 for only 65,000 bucks!! If I ever get divorced again I am all over this one. Check it out at Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1789717707 JetPaul ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:03 AM PST US From: Barshalom@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com OK Chris, Here's another question. Say you have IO 540's that are ready for major overhaul/replacement. Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated with turbo- or super-charged engines. I have heard of Colemill, Mr. RPM, etc., conversions or replacements and have also heard of a "pancake" 8 cyl and also an automotive V-8 replacement engines for the 500 series AC. Your thoughts? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:38 AM PST US From: Barshalom@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com bilbo, What is an "Apendix" horse? Bill in TN N69PT ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:59 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: Apendix horse From: Barry.Collman@airclaims.co.uk 03/12/2002 15:34:18 --> Commander-List message posted by: Barry.Collman@airclaims.co.uk Hi gang! An Appendix is something found at the back of a book. So my guess, and admittedly, that's all it is :-) is that: An Apendix horse is one which always finishes last in a race, i.e. at the back. Aren't you all glad you're saddled with me! I'll stop now before I really get the bit between my teeth! Best Regards, Barry Barshalom@aol.com Sent by: To: commander-list@matronics.com owner-commander-list-server@ma cc: tronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B 03/12/2002 15:27 Please respond to commander-list --> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com bilbo, What is an "Apendix" horse? Bill in TN N69PT ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:09 AM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Barshalom@aol.com wrote: > Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared There are really only two options on the market right now: The MRRPM IO-720 conversion (400hp) and the Merlyn package (350hp). The Orenda V8 just isn't available at this time, but hopefully will be some time in the future. The Colemill package is a 300hp Continental. Colemill no longer does this mod nor would the performance by close to a geared 540. If you're talking about a replacement for an IG(S)O-540, you are talking about a 680Fxx airframe. The MRRPM conversion is the only one currently certified for that model although the Merlyn probably could be with some effort. Comparing the IG(S)O-540 with an IO-720 is an interesting excercise. Although the 720 is rated at a slightly higher HP, the GO-540 still produces more static thrust (almost 900 ft/lbs torque at the propshaft!). The 720 has a HUGE advantage in fuel specifics. At the same HP, it burns just over half the fuel. It's also a 2000 hr TBO engine. The existing 720 STC utilizes a sub-optimal prop which robs the airplane of some of it's potential performance. Supposedly, there is work going on to approve a new prop with this package but I have no details at this time. With a well-matched prop, the 720 should provide similar takeoff and climb performance with superior top speed when compared to the 540. Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on though). Chris ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:53 AM PST US From: MarcioK@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads --> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com Dear Frits Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have them made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be able to hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new" pad you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending on how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a piece. Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They sell parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge you $15 a piece. Good luck Marcio ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:22 AM PST US From: Barshalom@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: Barshalom@aol.com So, it seems that you are saying that a MrRPM IO 720 is the way to go: direct drive prop that is not currently well-matched to the AC500 but is supposed to be being replaced with an STC prop upgrade soon 400HP should give more takeoff and climb as well as top speed performance available with turbo direct replacement for IO 540 (by the way, you only have to worry about the crank gear bolt AD if you have a yellow one -bolt that is. Most people don't and it is easy to determine if you do from logs.) I will keep the IO 540's as they have only 500 hours on them. They work good and I get 170 knots TAS at 23 squared in my 500B with them. And I like the simplicity of operation with the IO 540's because I don't have to deal with rpm and temperature management like I would with gears and turbo chargers. KISS works best for me. Thanks for your thoughts. Bill in TN N69PT ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:40 AM PST US From: "Howard Windham" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: "Howard Windham" Hey Chris, what's your land line number. Have a question to ask off line. Buddy. My mobile number is 616 497-0854 or office at 616 896-6588 Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann --> Barshalom@aol.com wrote: > Is there an alternative to re-build or factory re-man > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared There are really only two options on the market right now: The MRRPM IO-720 conversion (400hp) and the Merlyn package (350hp). The Orenda V8 just isn't available at this time, but hopefully will be some time in the future. The Colemill package is a 300hp Continental. Colemill no longer does this mod nor would the performance by close to a geared 540. If you're talking about a replacement for an IG(S)O-540, you are talking about a 680Fxx airframe. The MRRPM conversion is the only one currently certified for that model although the Merlyn probably could be with some effort. Comparing the IG(S)O-540 with an IO-720 is an interesting excercise. Although the 720 is rated at a slightly higher HP, the GO-540 still produces more static thrust (almost 900 ft/lbs torque at the propshaft!). The 720 has a HUGE advantage in fuel specifics. At the same HP, it burns just over half the fuel. It's also a 2000 hr TBO engine. The existing 720 STC utilizes a sub-optimal prop which robs the airplane of some of it's potential performance. Supposedly, there is work going on to approve a new prop with this package but I have no details at this time. With a well-matched prop, the 720 should provide similar takeoff and climb performance with superior top speed when compared to the 540. Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on though). Chris = direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:51 AM PST US From: "Chris Wall" Subject: Commander-List: Oil Filters --> Commander-List message posted by: "Chris Wall" Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A. Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between the engine and the oil cooler. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:09 AM PST US From: "Howard Windham" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil Filters --> Commander-List message posted by: "Howard Windham" My 560e has airwolf fileters, the work fine mounting on the firewall. My only suggestion is to make sure you change the filter with warm metal. Make the unscrewing go a lot easier with out flexing the firewall. Even with the backing plate you still get movement on the bracket. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wall Subject: Commander-List: Oil Filters --> Commander-List message posted by: "Chris Wall" --> Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A. Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between the engine and the oil cooler. = direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:26 AM PST US From: MarcioK@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Filters --> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com Dear Chris I chose AIRWOLF instead of ADC just because it was the only one STCd for the 720 but after really comparing both I regret my decision. The bracket is small, and won't fit in the holes in the firewall. To compensate for the bracket thickness and absorb vibrations, they send a piece of hose you're supposed to tie around the cartridge with a clamp. Try to get your hands on both, before deciding. ADC is much stronger, the head is cast with kind of a nut that helps holding the unit for removing a tight filter, and has provision for a chip detector. I think that even at the expense of a field approval, you'll be better served. Cheers Marcio ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:18 PM PST US From: MOEMILLS@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Filters --> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com Chris, On my 680F(p) we installed the Airwolf filters in the rear sections of the nacelles (outboard of the wheels when they are retracted) and got a one time field approval as there was no STC. You might consider the "other brand," as the top of the Airwolf filter housing is round, and removing a filter which has 'stuck' at the gasket can be a bit tricky as there is no way to get a wrench on the top, and it will twist the mounting surface (firewall or whatever it is bolted to). Moe Mills ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:13 PM PST US From: "n414c" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared > maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated > with turbo- or super-charged engines. > __There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared, turbo/supercharged engines. Just operate them correctly. Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with these engines. Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home. Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability. Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues" Milt ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:02 PM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" When I first started looking at Commanders, just about EVERYONE said "stay away from geared engines". Morris Kernick gave me sound advice about the proper operation of geared engines, and I have been happy with mine now for 4 years and about 500 hours. In fact, the extra care and forethought required to operate these engines (like planning AHEAD for let downs, stablized approaches, proper ground operations, etc.) has made me a MUCH better pilot. I wouldn't trade the last 500 hours for any other airplane...well, maybe a nice Dash 10 690B would be nice. Randy Dettmer 680F/N6253X ----- Original Message ----- From: "n414c" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B > --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > > > > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared > > maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated > > with turbo- or super-charged engines. > > > __There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared, > turbo/supercharged engines. > Just operate them correctly. > Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with > these engines. > > Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit > there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home. > > Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability. > > Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues" > > Milt > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:05 PM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/2002 12:36:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, fritsabbing@yahoo.com writes: > > Is there a shop or center where they have brake > pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock. HI FRITZ.Try Kenmore Hir Harbor, Seattle WA. Have the part # ready. They fit Beavers. Ask for Joe. INSTALL CLEVELANDS ASAP!!! jb ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:50 PM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/2002 8:10:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, chris@skymaster.c2-tech.com writes: > Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the > geared 540's on the market today. It is available with or without > turbocharging (don't know why you wouldn't put the hairdryers on though). > OK, I CANT STAND IT ANY LONGER!!! There is NO direct drive engine that will perform beside it's geared counterpart, none. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a geared aircraft engine. Turbine engines are geared, P-51s are geared, all large radial engines are geared, ultra lights are geared your car is geared even the blender on your kitchen counter is geared. In fact, the only "non geared" piece of machinery you are likely to own is you airplane and........your lawnmower!! Treat them right, they are unbeatable. :-) jb ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:44 PM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Filters --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/2002 10:25:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, cwall@worldflight2000.com writes: > Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a 560A. > Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall between > the engine and the oil cooler. HI CHRIS...Contact Gary at Commander Aero, Good luck. jb ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:34 PM PST US From: MOEMILLS@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com Milt is correct. If you have an engine out on take off that 380 HP on the runner sure does feel good. Moe Mills ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:37 PM PST US From: "Val Brady" Subject: Commander-List: change of address --> Commander-List message posted by: "Val Brady" Please change Dan Brady's email addy from valbrady@thegrid.net to westwindaero@lycos.com. Val bought me my very own computer so I can now get my very own mail. As soon as I get caught up, I'll contribute my share. Dan Brady ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:13 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann YOURTCFG@aol.com wrote: >>Summary: the MRRPM 720 conversion is the only real alternative to the >>geared 540's > > OK, I CANT STAND IT ANY LONGER!!! There is NO direct drive engine that will > perform beside it's geared counterpart, none. Calm down my friend...the world isn't coming to an end - truely... Nobody said anything bad about geared engines. I think pretty much everyone would agree that they out-perform the non-geared alternatives. The question was simply: what are the alternatives to geared 540's. As far as I know, the MRRPM IO720 conversion is the only thing you can actually go buy today. Please add other options that you may know of. chris ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:19 PM PST US From: Bill Hamilton Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads --> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton Fritz, This is the reason the Cleveland conversions are so popular, at this price, it doesn't take long to pay for the Clevelands. Cheers, Bill Hamilton. At 12:34 AM 3/12/02 -0800, you wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: Frits Abbing > >Hello Commanderfans, > >Is there a shop or center where they have brake >pads/linings for a 680 and a 680E in stock. >And for a normal price. >I need 6 on each side so total 24. >Contact with a shop: factory can deliver those after >22 weeks.??? >Another shop was trying to (over)charge $ 185 a pad. >If "they" are trying this way for us to maintain AC's >it will be the wrong one. > >Frits Abbing > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:32 PM PST US From: Bill Hamilton Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads --> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton All, If you go this route, and the aircraft is in anything but Experimental Cat. of some kind, make certain you have the FAR Part 21 requirements covered, or the pads you use are otherwise approved, making brake pads does not come under the heading of manufacturing parts in the course of maintenance ( FAR Part 43). Insurance companies are not on your side, if the TCDS and C of A have been invalidated. Cheers, Bill Hamilton. At 11:31 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com > >Dear Frits > >Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have them >made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be able to >hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new" pad >you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending on >how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a piece. > >Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They sell >parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge you >$15 a piece. > >Good luck > >Marcio > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:22 PM PST US From: "Leon Stovall" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: "Leon Stovall" Way to go Milt!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "n414c" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B > --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > > > > that would give IGO 540 performance without the concerns of geared > > maintenance and operation issues and also without the concerns associated > > with turbo- or super-charged engines. > > > __There Ain't no concerns or operational issues with geared, > turbo/supercharged engines. > Just operate them correctly. > Most of these planes are 30-50 years old and they are doing just fine with > these engines. > > Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit > there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home. > > Get the geared engine and feel the power and climb capability. > > Fly it correctly and there aren't any "geared issues" > > Milt > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:26 PM PST US From: Bill Hamilton Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil Filters --> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton Chris, Go for one of the systems that uses spin on filters such as Champion, any of the mesh screen types only stop rock and small babies. Seriously, for good filtration and convenience, the spin on is the only way to go. I have some experience of both, in my opinion it is no contest. A common modification is to run the lines from an adapter through the firewall, and put the filter canister on the aft side, this solves an space problems immediately behind the engine. Cheers, Bill Hamilton At 01:26 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Chris Wall" > >Any comments on the best oil filter /installation to go with on a >560A. Right now I am leaning towards airwolf installed on the firewall >between the engine and the oil cooler. > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:44 PM PST US From: "Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" > HI FRITZ.Try Kenmore Hir Harbor, Seattle WA. Have the part # ready. They > fit Beavers. Ask for Joe. INSTALL CLEVELANDS ASAP!!! jb BOY, Fritz is sure getting more options than I did when I asked the same question. bilbo:>( ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:47 PM PST US From: "Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Apendix horse --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" > An Appendix is something found at the back of a book. > > So my guess, and admittedly, that's all it is :-) is that: > > An Apendix horse is one which always finishes last in a race, i.e. at the > back. > > Aren't you all glad you're saddled with me! > I'll stop now before I really get the bit between my teeth! =========================================== An Appendix horse is half Quarterhorse and half Thoroughbred. That translates into Tall and Smart(smart being a VERY relative term). bilbo ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:21 PM PST US From: MarcioK@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com That's it, Jim ! ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:36 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: List of Contributors #1 - A Special Thank You... --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, First let me say Thank You to everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists this year! I was particularly touched by all of the wonderful comments people made regarding the Lists and how much they mean to them. As I have said many times before, running these Lists and creating the many new features is truly a labor of love. This is why your comments of support and appreciation have particular meaning for me. Your generosity during this time of List support only underscores the delightful sentiments people have made regarding the Lists. The money raised during this year's Fund Raiser will go directly into supporting the continued operation of the Lists as well as some much needed upgrades. For example, I have just ordered three new UPS systems to replaced the currently failing and out-of-warranty older units. These new units will provide well over 3 hours of backup protection during an outage and assure that the computer systems will be shutdown in a safe and orderly fashion. I have also ordered a new backup system that will provide 60 days of on line, daily backups for all of systems supporting the List services. This regular backup capability serves to rigorously protect against the inevitable system disk failure or the (not-so) "unlikely" errant event of the rogue "rm *" command...(!) Last year, using resources generated by the Fund Raiser, I was able to upgrade the Web server platform, greatly enhancing the performance of the many services such as the Archive Search Engine, as well as increasing the system reliability through newer equipment. During the upcoming year, using Contributions from this year's Fund Raiser, I hope to upgrade the Email System in a similar fashion, providing Listers with substantial increases in performance and availability. Know that all of these enhancements are remotely feasible ONLY because of your generosity during the List Fund Raiser. For this, both I, and the rest of the List population thank you! I would also once again like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) who so generously supported this year's Fund Raiser with both free and substantially discounted merchandise!! Andy is truly one of a kind, and a superb businessman, and I cannot thank him enough for all that he's done! If you have any aircraft media needs in the near future, I would ask that you please give his great web site a look. Thanks again Andy, for all your support! And finally, below you will find the 2002 List of Contributors current as of 12/3/02! Have a look at the list of names there as these are the people that make all of the services here possible! I can't thank you all enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! I will post a follow up List of Contributors at the end of the month to catch any straggles or people who mailed in checks. There are still a few of the various Free Gifts left, so please feel free to yet make your Contribution and get a great Free Gift to-boot! Once again, the URL for the Contributions web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I will be shipping out the CDROM-Only orders later this week. The remaining Flight Bag-Only and all of the Flight Bag & CDROM orders will ship out as soon as I receive the second shipment of flight bags. The A&P Book orders will go out later this month. I will post again regarding the actual shipment of the various items. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ------------------- 2002 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- Adams, Brian Adams, Robert Addington, James Alber, John Alexander, Don Alexander, George Allen, George Altenhein, Gary Amundsen, Blair Amundson, John Andrepont, Dirk Andrews, Myles Applefeld, Gerald Armstrong, Christopher Aronson, David Ashton, Kent Aspegren, Roger Atkinson, Harold Austin, David Awad, Ihab Babb, Tony Bahrns, Stan Baker, Jim Baker, Owen Ballenger, Jim Barnes, Thomas Bartrim, S.Todd Basiliere, Rick Bassette, Richard Bataller, Gary Batte, W.Granville Bean, James Bean, Robert Beard, Harley Bell, Bruce Benham, Dallas Benjamin, Hal Benson, Lonnie Bergeron, Daniel Bergner, Lee Bernard, William Bernier, Jim Bertelli, John Bertrand, Carl Beusch, Andre Bidle, Jerry Bieber, Michael Bieberdorf, Roger Billing, Ernie Binzer, Robert Bird, Carroll Blahnick, Drew Blake, J.I. Blake, Peter Blomgren, Jack Boardman, Don Bockelman, David Boede, Jon Bolduc, Richard Bona, Skip Bonesteel, Wayne Bookout, Ralph Booze, Greg Borduas, Eric Boucher, Michel Bourne, Larry Bowen, Larry Bowman, John Boyter, Wayne Brame, Charles Brandon, John Branstrom, Dan Brasch, Glenn Brick, John Bridges, Glenn Bridgham, David Briggs, Tracy Brocious, Bob Bromka, Alan Bronson, Tim Brooks, Chris Brooks, John Brooks, Kenyon Brooks, William Broomell, Glenn Brown, Robert Buchanan, Sam Buchmann, Kenneth Buess, Alfred Bulot, Larry Burg, H.R. Burks, Terrell Burton, Charlie Burton, James Bush, Jerome Butcher, Ronald Butler, Francis Calhoun, Ron Calloway, Terry Calvert, Jerry Cameron, Todd Cann, Tony Cantrell, Jimmy Capen, Ralph Capestany, Phillip Carey, Christopher Carillon, John CarillonSr., Paul Carlisle, O. Carroll, Randy Carter, Ron Casey, Jeremy Challgren, Stanley Champaign, Philip Chandler, Charles Chapman, Tom Chapple, Glen Checkoway, Dan Chesterman, Dave Christie, Bill Clark, James Clark, John Clinchy, David Cochran, Stewart Coffey, John Cohen, Philip Coldenhoff, Tim Cole, Gary Coley, Howard Collins, Leland Colucci, Tony Comfort, Gordon Compton, Scott Condon, Philip Connell, Joseph Cook, Craig Cooper, James Corbalis, Leo Corbett, Corky&Isabelle Corder, Michael Corriveau, Grant Cotton, David Coulter, Annette Coulter, Carl Counselman, William Coursey, William Cox, Ronald Craig, John Cretsinger, Will Crisp, Steve Croke, Jon Crosby, Harry Crosley, Richard Cruikshank, Bruce Cullen, Chuck Cummings, Tom Currie, Robert Dalstrom, Douglas Dalziel, Donald Danclovic, Paul Daniels, Jim Dascomb, George Daudt, Larry Davidson, Jeff Davis, Jared Davis, John Davis, Joseph Davis, Mark Davis, Terry Dawson, Clif Dawson, William Day, Jack Desimone, D.A., Dr Desimone, David Desmond, Richard Devaney, Robert Diehl, Donald Dilatush, John Dionne, Bruno Dobson, Russell Dodge, Larry Donald, Woods Dondlinger, Leo Douglas, Lyle Dresden, Robert Driscoll, Patrick Driver, Stuart Dudley, Richard Dupon, William Dupuis, Real Durr, Wendell DuVe, Chris Eagleston, Ron Eaves, Donald Eberhart, Steven Ebsen, Kevin Eckel, John Eckenroth, Paul Edwards, Bruce Elder, William Elia, Pete Ellenberger, Mike Ellis, Dale Ervin, Thomas Erwin, Chip Escobar, Luis Esterhuizen, Deon Evans, Marion Evans, Walt Faatz, Mitch Fackler, Ken Fair, William Faris, Kevin Farley, David Fasching, John Fay, John Feldmann, Stephen Ferguson, Jay Finley, John Fishe, James Fitzpatrick, Robert Flamini, Dennis Foerster, James Fondevila, Gabriel Fox, Byron Fraser, Angus Fray, Jerry Frazier, Ford Freeman, James Fricke, Walt Frisby, James Fromm, John Frost, George Fry, John Frye, Dwight Frymire, Terry Fulgham, Bill Fulmer, Joseph Fung, Sean Gardner, Albert Garner, John Garrou, Douglas Gassmann, Andrew Gates, Leo Genzlinger, Reade George, William German, Mark Gherkins, Tim Gibbons, Chip Gilbert, Mark Gillespie, R.L. Gillies, Patty Glasgow, Steve Glass, Roy Goble, Loren Golden, Dennis Gonzalez, Manuel Good, Chris Gordon, Keith Gott, Shelby Goudinoff, Peter Grabb, Gary Graham, W.Doyce Grajek, Al Graumlich, Thomas Graumlich, Tom Grebe, David Green, Roger Green, Steven Greene, Tim Grentzer, Edward Griffin, Bill Griffin, Robert Guidroz, Thomas Gummo, Thomas Gustafson, Aaron Guthrie, Mark Haertlein, Frank Hallsten, Keith Hallsten, Kent Hamer, Steve Hancock, Barry Hand, Chris Hankins, Roger Hanrahan, Jamie Hansen, Richard Hanson, Kevin Hardaway, Mike Harding, Scott Hargis, Merle Harman, Richard Harmon, John Harmon, Loren Harrill, Ken Harris, John Harris, Richard Hart, Daniel Hart, Jack Hartl, Paul Hartselle, Richard Hartson, Wesley Hartwig, Richard Harvey, Dale Hasper, Jim Hatch, Pat Hatcher, Clive Hatfield, Cecil Hauck, John Hawkins, Harry Hawkins, Larry Hebb, Loman Hegler, Freddie Heisey, Adriel Henderson, Neil Herminghaus, John Herren, William Herrick, David Hibbing, William Hickman, Robert Hill, Jeff Hill, Kenneth Hill, Stanley Himes, Joe Himsl, Vincent Hinrichsen, James Hodge, Jack Hodgson, Bob Hoffman, Allan Hoffman, Carl Hoffman, Curtis Hoffmann, Thomas Holifield, Stephen Hooper, Randy Hoover, Ralph Hornick, Paul Horton, Dan Horton, Kevin Hubbard, Eugene Huft, John Hughes, Robert Hulen, Fred Humbert, Robert Hunger, Norman Hunsicker, Greg Hunt, Jim Hunt, Robin Hurlbut, Steve Hutchinson, Harold Hutchison, Tom Iii, Henry, Inman, George Isaacs, Robert Isler, Jerry Jackson, Scott Jamieson, Richard Jan, Dejong Jannakos, Gregory Jenkins, John Jensen, Marinus Jessen, John Jewell, Jim Johannsson, Johann Johnson, Bob Johnson, Brian Johnson, Delbert Johnson, Kerry Johnson, Lance Johnson, Murray Johnson, Richard Johnson, Steve Jones, Alvin Jones, Kevin Joosten, Craig Jordan, Don Jordan, John Jory, Rick Jungjr, Johnr Kahn, Steve Kaluza, Charles Karmy, Andrew Karpinski, Arthur Kayner, Dennis Kelley, Jim Kelley, Patrick Kellum, Mark Kempthorne, Hal Kent, John Kirby, David Kleen, Chris & Indira Knoepflein, Shannon Knoll, Bruce Kohn, Carl Koonce, R.L. Kovac, Harold Kowalski, Bruce Kramer, Ed Kritzman, Alan Krok, Peter Kuntz, Paul Kuss, Charles Kwitek, Marty Kyle, Fegus Lackwitz, Ray Laird, Dave Laird, David Lamb, Billie Lamb, Billy Landmann, Doug Lannon, Walter Larsen, Gene Larson, Joe Lasecki, Robert Lassen, Finn Latimer, Jerry Laurie, Kip Lawliss, James Lawson, John Ledbetter, Gene Ledoux, Paul Lee, Terry Lefler, Fabian Lekven, Carl Lenarz, Michael(mike) Lenton, Dennis Lerohl, Gaylen Terminaltown Lervold, Randy Lewis, Rufus Lewis, Terry Lewis, Tim Licking, Lawrence Lifer, Craig Liming, Gary Linebaugh, Jeffrey Linse, Michael Lloyd, Brian Loar, Carl Long, Charles Long, Eugene Long, Jim Longcrier, Thurman Longino, Dana Loubert, Gary Lundborg, Craig Lundin, Richard Lundquist, David Lutgring, Thomas Lynch, Charles Macchiaverna, Andrew Macdonald, Dave Macdonald, Larry Mack, Don Mackay, Alex Madden, Peter Mains, Ralph Malczynski, Francis Malich, Gunter Markle, Jim Markwell, Cleone Marlow, Sam Marshall, F.Robert Marshall, Nigel Martin, Bryan Martin, Jay Martin, Richard Mason, Ron Massari, Steve Mattson, Doug Maziarz, Dpnald Mcbride, Duncan Mccallister, Don Mccallum, Robert Mccracken, Ted Mcfarland, Larry Mcfarlane, Lloyd Mcgehee, Tom Mcgregor, Bruce Mcintosh, Wayne Mcintyre, Jay Mckelvey, David Mckenna, Mike Mcleod, Neil Medeiros, Joel Medema, Doug Meiste, Kelly Mekeel, Donald Mensink, Will Merchant, Dean Messinger, Paul Metz, Lowell Meyers, Jess Meyers, John Meyn, Wolfgang Michel, Paul Milgrom, Mark Miller, David Miller, Jim&dondi Mills, Bill Minewiser, Jim Mitchell, Bill Mitchell, Duane Mitchell, Graham Moak, Ken Montagne, Raymond Montoure, Ken Morehead, Cj Morelli, William Morgan, Mark Morin, Mauri Morison, James Morley, Harold Morphis, George Morrow, Dan Mosier, Colby Moulin, Roger Moyle, John Mrotzek, Dan Mucker, Matthew Mudge, Ronald Muegge, James Mueller, Mike Mulherin, Harold Murray, Glenn Murray, Ronald Murrill, Bob Myers, John Natho, Paul Navratil, Richard Neilsen, Richard Neitzel, Richard Nellis, Mike Newkirk, Bill Nicely, Vincent Nicholas, Kim Nickless, Jim Nickson, Dennis Norman, Jim North, Wheeler Noyer, Robert Nuckolls, Robert Nystrom, John O'Brien, Bill O'Brien, Dan O'Brien, William O'Donnell, David Oberst, James Ochsner, Doug Oconnor, Edward Ohlinger, Judith Okeefe, Larry Okeefe, Lawrence Okrent, Mike Oldford, David Orear, Jeff Orsborn, Thomas Owens, Don Owens, Phillip Packard, Tom Pardue, Larry Parham, Bernard Park, Gene Parker, Ray Patsey, Kevin Patterson, Tim Payne, Craig Payne, Ron Pedersen, Wayne Pekin, J Pelletier, Daniel Perez, M.Domenic Peterson, Alex Peterson, David Petri, David Petty, Paul Pflimlin, Paul Pfundt, Jan Phillips, Jack Phillips, Mark Pickrell, Jim Pieper, William Pike, Richard Pilling, Kevin Pinneo, George Pinzon, Pedro Plecenik, Michael Point, Jeff Polits, Dick Pollard, Jim Polstra, Philip Pote, Barry Powell, Ken Prather, Matthew Preston, Douglas Pribble, Marv Puckett, Greg Rabaut, Chuck Raby, Ronald Radford, Joe Ramotowski, Joe Randolph, George Ray, Rick Ray, Rob Reeck, Arthur Reed, Gary Reed, Joel Reeves, Dan Render, James Reuterskiold, John Rice, Mike Richard, J. Richards, Stephen Risch, Bob Robert, Larry Robinson, James Rodebush, James Roebuck, Warren Roehl, Tim Rogers, Ken Rohling, William Romine, Chris Ron, Dewees Rosenberg, Ran Rowe, Dennis Rozendaal, Doug Russell, Jack Sa, Carlos Safford, Brad Salter, Phillip Salzman, Mike Sapp, Doug Sargent, Thomas Sax, Samuel Schiff, Nathan Schneider, Werner Schnurr, Jack Schoenberger, H.Robert Schrimmer, Mark Schroeder, John Schultz, Davidh Scott, Clive Scroggs, Ross Seal, Boyd Sears, Jim Seel, Norman Selby, Jim Shackelford, Orie Shafer, James Shank, Bill Shannon, Kevin Shearing, Garth Sheets, Doug Shelton, Kevin Shepherd, Dallas Shipley, Rob Siegfried, Bob Silva, Oswaldo Simmons, Ken Simpson, Randy Singleton, Graham Sink, Donald Sipp, Richard Slatt, Gary Small, Jeff Smith, David Smith, Gene Smith, Kirk Smith, Ronald Smith, Zed Sobel, Martin Sohn, Daniel Solecki, John Sower, Jim Sparks, Timothy Spence, Stephen Spencer, Scott Sprayberry, JR Sprunger, Gary Staal, Stephen Stagg, Lynwood Staley, Dick Starn, Jack Steuber, Edward Stewart, Don Stoffers, Larry Stone, Chris Strawn, David Stroberg, David Strong, Gary Stuart, Clay Sullivan, Stan Sutterfield, Stan Swaney, Mark Swanson, Roger Swanson, Ronald Swartzendruber, David Swenson, Guy Swinford, George Tasker, Richard Tauchen, Bryan Tellet, David Textor, Jack Therrien, Michel Thistlethwaite, Geoff Thomas, Lee Thomas, Stephen Thomason, Michael Thompson, David Thorne, Jim Thwing, Randy Todd, John Tompkins, Jeff Tower, John Towner, Melvin Trojan, David Truitt, Jim Trumpfheller, Robert Tupper, Kirby Turnbull, Tom Tuton, Beauford Uniform, Sirs! Utterback, Tom Van Laak, Jim Vanbladeren, Ronald Vandenbroek, Martin VanDerSanden, Gert Vangrunsven, Stanley Vanwinkle, Alden Vargas, Javier Vaughan, Cye Vervoort-woestenburg, Jef Voelker, Leonard Voss, Richard Wagner, James Wagoner, Richard Waldal, ArtB. Walker, Beau Walker, Weston Wall, Chris Wallen, Arden Wampler, Jim Washburn, Oliver Watson, Richard Watson, Terry Weaver, Erich Weaver, Fred Webb, Randol Weiler, Doug Weiss, Gary Werner, Russ Weyant, Chuck Wheatley, Malcolm Whelan, Thomas White, Charles Whiteside, Eric Whitman, Timothy Whittier, Bucky Whittington, Dewitt Wilcox, Gary Williams, Eugene Williams, Gene Williams, Laurence Williams, Terry Willig, Louis Willis, Raymond Wilson, Billy Wilson, Kelly Winberry, Bryan Winne, Edward Winnings, James Wittman, James Woods, Harold Wotring, Dale Wright, Roy Wymer, Gerald Yamokoski, William Young, Rollin Zecherle, John Zheng, Andrew Zilik, Gary Zirges, Malcolm Zollinger, Duane Zuniga, Oscar ------------------- 2002 List of Contributors #1 ----------------- DNA: do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:49 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560E vs 500B --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 12/03/02 15:37:07 Pacific Standard Time, n414c@direcway.com writes: > Why this insistence on wanting direct drive sissy engines that just sit > there and make squishy noises when you shove the throttle home. Squishy noises? That's terrific! From some of the emails, it looked liked someone wanted to change out IO-540 engines on a 500B. Just to clarify something, the ONLY STC'd engine upgrade for the 500B is the Merlyn conversion. The IO-720 / Mr. RPM package was done for the 680F series (as Chris Schuermann said) and there are, I think, two Shrikes with IO-720s on them. Can they go on the 500B? Sure. But someone has to do the STC. Squishy. Indeed. Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:58 PM PST US From: "Nico van Niekerk" Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" I once had to replace the hub on my straight 500 because something was wrong with it due to heavy braking (can't remember whether it was a crack or something else. There are two shells a side, no? Cannot remember.). It used to be a charter machine before I got hold of it. After that I executed landings with power on and in a deep stall before touching down and then kept the stick pulled back until turning off the runway. The Commander is capable of holding its nosewheel off the runway for a considerable period of time, acting like a drag-chute. In the process I never used the brakes again on landing. (Shorter strips demanded otherwise, of course.) I was amazed at the low speed that the elevator would still slightly lift the nose, indicating that there is still a lot of drag in the elevator to slow things down for free. Before I wised up on the costs of showing nobody everytime how short my AC would land, I leaned on the brakes, thinking that the cost of rolling to the next exit on the runway and taxiing back would outstrip the cost of the brakes. But it didn't. One night while landing in the 680FP I heard the brakes shuddering. I looked out the window and saw that the rotors were red hot! Imagine the stress on all the components and the tires too! From that I know what's happening to the brakes on the big iron when I hear the brakes shuddering when a pilot tries to go for an earlier exit. Perhaps they have different criteria. In my defense, I must say the airport I landed at was 5000' asl, there was some gusting wind so I landed a bit faster to be sure, and the runway slanted slightly downhill. It was an eye-opener nevertheless. I adopted the same landing technique on the Seneca, the Twin Comanche, and the C182 and it was a pleasant surprize to see the inspections come and go and no brake pads needed. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Hamilton" Subject: Re: Commander-List: brake pads > --> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton > > All, > If you go this route, and the aircraft is in anything but Experimental Cat. > of some kind, make certain you have the FAR Part 21 requirements covered, > or the pads you use are otherwise approved, making brake pads does not come > under the heading of manufacturing parts in the course of maintenance ( FAR > Part 43). > Insurance companies are not on your side, if the TCDS and C of A have been > invalidated. > Cheers, > Bill Hamilton. > > > At 11:31 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote: > >--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com > > > >Dear Frits > > > >Get a good machinist, buy a plate of the appropriate lining, and have them > >made. The first thing the machinist will tell you is that he won't be able to > >hold it properly on the lathe. Make a pilot hole in the center. Any "new" pad > >you'd probably be able to buy will have a hole in the center. Depending on > >how many you make, you'll probably be able to get them for $8 to $10 a piece. > > > >Or try Milford Air Parts, 800-327-7626 / 954-252-3438, Davie, FL. They sell > >parts for Beech D-18, the brakes are the same. Al will probably charge you > >$15 a piece. > > > >Good luck > > > >Marcio > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:37 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Archives Now Available! --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Hello Commander Listers, Nico was kind enough to upload the Commander List archives all the way back to April of 2001. I wrote some code today to convert them to the format my system uses, stripped out a whole wad of advertisements and other stuff, and just finished putting them on line for Searching, Browsing, and Downloading! The two main pages of interest include the Searching Page and the Archive page. The URLs for these are respectively: http://www.matronics.com/search (be sure to select the Commander archive!) and http://www.matronics.com/archives These two links and a number of others can always be found in the List Email Trailer below. Thank you, Nico, for taking the time to save all those messages and for getting them to me! Don't forget to email the all the List photos to pictures@matronics.com and I'll see that all of them get up on the Photoshare page as well! Enjoy! Matt Dralle List Admin.