---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/02/03: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:18 AM - Re: Great flight(s) (Russell Legg) 2. 04:44 AM - Re: Re: Commander-Chat List: At Last! (Bow) 3. 04:47 AM - Re: chat/ Re: Great flight(s) (Bow) 4. 05:19 AM - Re: chat/ Re: Great flight(s) (Chris Schuermann) 5. 10:27 AM - Great Christmas Present (tom_kinnaird@bankone.com) 6. 10:31 AM - Re: Great Christmas Present (Chris Schuermann) 7. 10:40 AM - Whose Bird? (Stephen Crow) 8. 10:40 AM - Re: Great Christmas Present (Chris Schuermann) 9. 10:47 AM - much more info (Stephen Crow) 10. 11:03 AM - N423M (tom_kinnaird@bankone.com) 11. 01:31 PM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 01/01/03 (Barry Hancock) 12. 02:14 PM - Re: N423M (Russell Legg) 13. 02:15 PM - Re: chat/ Re: Great flight(s) (Russell Legg) 14. 03:02 PM - airplane paint (Bruce Campbell) 15. 03:08 PM - sealing a 520 (Bruce Campbell) 16. 03:54 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 17. 05:03 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (n414c) 18. 05:14 PM - Re: Great Christmas Present (Jim Crunkleton) 19. 05:18 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 20. 05:36 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (Tom Fisher) 21. 06:24 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (Jerry R. Sprayberry) 22. 07:31 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (Bruce Campbell) 23. 07:43 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (Lowell Girod) 24. 07:59 PM - Re: sealing a 520 (Tom Fisher) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Great flight(s) From: Russell Legg --> Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg G'day Nico, Well...those cute jumpin' things are perpetually in plague proportion in Oz and are also farmed via government licence for the table. They kind of taste somewhere between rabbit and lamb, definitely not a chicken flavour! Regards from Oz Russell On 2/1/03 1:32 PM, "Nico van Niekerk" wrote: > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" > > > You guys have all the fun out there. You should save some for us mahogany > bomber pilots also. > Nice going for the new year. > Nico > > PS. Russell, you guys eat those cute jumpin' thingies? Do they also taste > like chicken? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Russell Legg" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Great flight(s) > > >> --> Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg > >> >> Hey Milt, >> >> Thanks for sharing your latest adventures with 'lil Crunk in white-out!! >> >> Great to hear another 520 has joined the ranks...Well done! >> >> Cheers and ciders >> >> Russell >> >> >> On 2/1/03 12:57 AM, "n414c" wrote: >> >>> --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" >>> >>> Little Crunk and I planned on leaving to pickup Jim Lyle in Atlanta > yesterday >>> AM and give home a ride to Delaware Ohio to pickup his newly purchased > 520 so >>> little Crunk could give him a checkout and fly it back to Augusta Ga. >>> >>> >>> The day started badly. At 3AM a line of thunderstorms crossed the house, > beat >>> us up pretty badly and took out the power. Not to be stopped we did our > flight >>> planning at 5AM by the light of an oil lamp. >>> >>> The line of storms was solid between Miss. and Georgia so Jim hopped a >>> commercial flight to Cincinnati. Crunk and I headed out in 414C to meet > him. >>> >>> IMC at 300' and stayed that way at 17,000' all the way to CVG, 3 hours > in the >>> mush, ILS 36L into CVG 1mile an 600' >>> >>> Picked Jim up and on to Delaware Ohio in similar conditions with a GPS > 28 >>> approach to a slick runway where little Crunk greased it on. (actually > saw >>> snow for the first time in several years. Sure is cold up north. >>> >>> Jims 520 is pristine. The prior owner appears to have down all the > things that >>> make the first year of ownership a pain. Jim plans on coming to Dayton > next >>> year. (Jimbob get a plaque ready). >>> >>> Jim and Don then headed to Charleston WV and then Atlanta in less than > nice >>> weather and made it in safely. >>> >>> Gail and I headed back to Miss. once again solid IMC dodging embedded >>> thunderstorms and fighting the headwind from hell. 4hrs 30min later an > ILS to >>> minimums into MCB >>> and tied her down in a squall. >>> >>> 8hrs on the gauges without an autopilot. Ain't aerocommanders great. >>> >>> Little Crunk is now on his way to Danbury Connecticut to pickup and > deliver >>> another aircraft to its new owner somewhere out west. Hope its heater > works as >>> he figures 8-10 hrs flight time. >>> Milt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:39 AM PST US From: "Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-Chat List: At Last! --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" LOOKS bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Schuermann" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-Chat List: At Last! > --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann > > > Bow wrote: > >>"venti-ports" > > I should have known YOU would get it. You didn't answer the second question > > though. > > I don't think they really do anything, but given the logic of the day, > I'd guess they were either supposed to enhance cooling or decrease > aerodynamic drag... What's the actual scoop? Frankly, I've always been > most impressed by the hood mechanism allowing it to open in either > direction :-) > > Chris > > PS: I have a '47 Roadmaster "project" over in my fathers hangar. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:42 AM PST US From: "Bow" Subject: Re: chat/ Re: Commander-List: Great flight(s) --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bow" WELCOME bilbo 1962 500A ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Lyle" Subject: chat/ Re: Commander-List: Great flight(s) > --> Commander-List message posted by: "James Lyle" > > It was a great day to buy a Commander! > From one of the newest Commander owners , I can't thank all of the TCFG members enough who have provided advice on flying as well as helped me get my Commander home, especially Dr. Milt, Don and Cris they have been great. > I have requested an application for membership in the TCFG and fully expect to join ASAP. > The 520 flies great and I am even beginning to get used to the steering. > Keep the tips coming for the newest "Commander Rookie" > At this point I'll probably believe anything you tell me. > Hope to see all of you in Dayton. > James > N11L > Thanks to all. > Especially Dr. Mi > > >>> CloudCraft@aol.com 01/01 1:20 PM >>> > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 01/01/03 05:59:35 Pacific Standard Time, > n414c@direcway.com writes: > > > > 4hrs 30min later an ILS to minimums into MCB > > > > Don't you just hate having to do an ILS to minimums after 4+30 with a 4:00 > bladder? > > That was a nice bunch of flying, Dr. Milt, and quite kind of ya'll to help > out a new Commander owner. > > Thanks, on behalf of all of us. > > Flight planning via oil lamp? Hmmm. I take it they had the smudge pots > light to substitute for approach lights when you got home. > > Happy New Year everyone! > > Wing Commander Gordon > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:29 AM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: chat/ Re: Commander-List: Great flight(s) --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann James Lyle wrote: > It was a great day to buy a Commander! Congrats and welcome aboard James! Looking forward to meeting and seeing your new bird. Chris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:57 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Great Christmas Present From: tom_kinnaird@bankone.com 01/02/2003 01:27:41 PM --> Commander-List message posted by: tom_kinnaird@bankone.com Barry - Our house is in the downwind/base leg for Bowman Field. Right before CHristmas, I coincidentally caught sight of a Commander in the pattern. Since we are "Commander-starved" here in Louisville, KY, my son and I immediatley headed to teh airport. We got there too late to talk to the pilot but there she was .....N423M ....... a beautiful 560F with teh Jimmy Daurante nose. She stayed a couple of days and we went to see her once more before she left. Any idea who she belongs to???? This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:22 AM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: Great Christmas Present --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann tom_kinnaird@bankone.com wrote: > N423M ....... a beautiful 560F with teh > Jimmy Daurante nose. She stayed a couple of days and we went to see her > once more before she left. Any idea who she belongs to???? That's Jim Crunkleton's 560F. sweet bird! Chris ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:00 AM PST US From: Stephen Crow Subject: Commander-List: Whose Bird? --> Commander-List message posted by: Stephen Crow N423M 1964 AERO COMMANDER 560-F, CRUNKLETON JAMES A, SENOIA GA Compliments Stephen C. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:33 AM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: Great Christmas Present --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann pardon me, I should have said Crunk AND Joe Shepherd's 560F. Details and pics here: http://www.aerocommander.com/COTM/Old/102001/ chris ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:47:45 AM PST US From: Stephen Crow Subject: Commander-List: much more info --> Commander-List message posted by: Stephen Crow N423M 1964 AERO COMMANDER 560-F, CRUNKLETON JAMES A, SENOIA GA http://www.aerocommander.com/COTM/Old/102001/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:21 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: N423M From: tom_kinnaird@bankone.com 01/02/2003 02:03:09 PM --> Commander-List message posted by: tom_kinnaird@bankone.com MY once in-a-lifetime chance to meet "oil-slick"!!! Wow, I can't believe I missed it. SHucks, I always wanted to tell him that he was not the first to leave an oil cap off. My Dad did the same thing many years ago in a 520 - had to make a single engine landing in Lexington, KY!!!! (Dad said it was no big deal cause - heck - it was a Commander!!!!) If only I'd known ......................... This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:24 PM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 01/01/03 From: Barry Hancock --> Commander-List message posted by: Barry Hancock Imron is not the paint of choice anymore. One of the problems is it is too brittle and cracks over time. Ask me, I just repainted a plane that had Imron on it... > . You can save big bucks by buying industrial Imron on-line > instead of automotive Imron from your local paint dealer. Barry Hancock 949.300.5510 www.allredstar.com California Condors Squadron "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes" ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: N423M From: Russell Legg --> Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg G'day Tom, You are confused. The 560F belongs to Crunk Snr and Joe S... "Oil Slick" is lil Crunk, and a great guy! Cheers Russell On 3/1/03 6:02 AM, "tom_kinnaird@bankone.com" wrote: > --> Commander-List message posted by: tom_kinnaird@bankone.com > > MY once in-a-lifetime chance to meet "oil-slick"!!! Wow, I can't believe I > missed it. SHucks, I always wanted to tell him that he was not the first to > leave an oil cap off. My Dad did the same thing many years ago in a 520 - > had to make a single engine landing in Lexington, KY!!!! (Dad said it was > no big deal cause - heck - it was a Commander!!!!) > > If only I'd known ......................... > > > This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential > and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, > distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any > reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in > error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its > entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: chat/ Re: Commander-List: Great flight(s) From: Russell Legg --> Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg Welcome aboard James! Glad to read that you have started with the original model...what better way of getting to know Commanders! Good luck Cheers Russell On 2/1/03 1:50 PM, "James Lyle" wrote: > --> Commander-List message posted by: "James Lyle" > > It was a great day to buy a Commander! > From one of the newest Commander owners , I can't thank all of the TCFG > members enough who have provided advice on flying as well as helped me get my > Commander home, especially Dr. Milt, Don and Cris they have been great. > I have requested an application for membership in the TCFG and fully expect to > join ASAP. > The 520 flies great and I am even beginning to get used to the steering. > Keep the tips coming for the newest "Commander Rookie" > At this point I'll probably believe anything you tell me. > Hope to see all of you in Dayton. > James > N11L > Thanks to all. > Especially Dr. Mi > >>>> CloudCraft@aol.com 01/01 1:20 PM >>> > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 01/01/03 05:59:35 Pacific Standard Time, > n414c@direcway.com writes: > > >> 4hrs 30min later an ILS to minimums into MCB >> > > Don't you just hate having to do an ILS to minimums after 4+30 with a 4:00 > bladder? > > That was a nice bunch of flying, Dr. Milt, and quite kind of ya'll to help > out a new Commander owner. > > Thanks, on behalf of all of us. > > Flight planning via oil lamp? Hmmm. I take it they had the smudge pots > light to substitute for approach lights when you got home. > > Happy New Year everyone! > > Wing Commander Gordon > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:01 PM PST US From: "Bruce Campbell" Subject: Commander-List: airplane paint --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" My experience suggests that Sherwin-Williams (no, really) makes one of the best and most price-effective polyurethane aircraft paints. I don't have the exact part no, but their web site would be a good guide. I had a grumman painted with it some years back and later a bonanza. The results were excellent. bruce campbell ac52 n4186b ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:32 PM PST US From: "Bruce Campbell" Subject: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" has anyone had any luck getting a 520 to stay dry in heavy rain? Mine leaks from the corrugated sheet covering the tail. Its OK in light to moderate rain, but in heavy rain it admits a great deal of water, which eventually drains, but causes condensation in the cabin. This in turn causes consternation among the passengers. One idea is to get up on the tail (via a VERY tall later or chery-picker) and seal each of the 50+ voids in the covering of the vertical stab with ployuterethane caulking. But then there's the touchy issue of the rudder. Presumably sealing the corrugated on the rudder would result in a change in the balance of the control. Anyone else's experiences/ideas? Bruce Campbell AC52 N4186B ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:49 PM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 1/2/03 3:09:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, baruch@intelligentflight.com writes: > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > My 680E leaks like a WW11 German U-Boat. It is not so much from the corrugated material as from the Wing to Fuselage seals, but where ever it comes from, it is a mess!! I visit my airplane daily and pull the tail down (allowing water to run aft) then release. This allows water to migrate forward and drain. I also drain every sump every day (this probably cost as much as a hangar) I have sealed everything imaginable and while there has been an improvement, it is still a mess. I am making a proposal to the port authority in the next couple of weeks to build a hangar here. Good Luck Bruce. jb ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:49 PM PST US From: "n414c" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" Can't be done. Keep it inside or cover it up. Milt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Campbell" Subject: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > has anyone had any luck getting a 520 to stay dry in heavy rain? Mine leaks from the corrugated sheet covering the tail. Its OK in light to moderate rain, but in heavy rain it admits a great deal of water, which eventually drains, but causes condensation in the cabin. This in turn causes consternation among the passengers. > > One idea is to get up on the tail (via a VERY tall later or chery-picker) and seal each of the 50+ voids in the covering of the vertical stab with ployuterethane caulking. But then there's the touchy issue of the rudder. Presumably sealing the corrugated on the rudder would result in a change in the balance of the control. > > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > > > Bruce Campbell > AC52 N4186B > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:32 PM PST US From: Jim Crunkleton Subject: Re: Commander-List: Great Christmas Present --> Commander-List message posted by: Jim Crunkleton tom_kinnaird@bankone.com wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: tom_kinnaird@bankone.com > > >Barry - Our house is in the downwind/base leg for Bowman Field. Right >before CHristmas, I coincidentally caught sight of a Commander in the >pattern. Since we are "Commander-starved" here in Louisville, KY, my son >and I immediatley headed to teh airport. We got there too late to talk to >the pilot but there she was .....N423M ....... a beautiful 560F with teh >Jimmy Daurante nose. She stayed a couple of days and we went to see her >once more before she left. Any idea who she belongs to???? > > >This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > Tom, N423M belongs to Joe Shepherd and Jim Crunkleton. Joe and I are from Louisville and Joe went to see his parents for Christmas. Jim Crunkleton ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:08 PM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" My 680F is pretty leaky too...always thought the water came in from the windows, but had them re-sealed this summer, and it was just as wet as ever after this year's first rain storm. The carpets get soaked, and everything get's wet from condensation...real drag. I keep a pile of towels in my car to soak up the water before each flight. Randy Dettmer 680F/N6253X ----- Original Message ----- From: "n414c" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > > Can't be done. Keep it inside or cover it up. > Milt > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Campbell" > To: > Subject: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > > has anyone had any luck getting a 520 to stay dry in heavy rain? Mine > leaks from the corrugated sheet covering the tail. Its OK in light to > moderate rain, but in heavy rain it admits a great deal of water, which > eventually drains, but causes condensation in the cabin. This in turn causes > consternation among the passengers. > > > > One idea is to get up on the tail (via a VERY tall later or chery-picker) > and seal each of the 50+ voids in the covering of the vertical stab with > ployuterethane caulking. But then there's the touchy issue of the rudder. > Presumably sealing the corrugated on the rudder would result in a change in > the balance of the control. > > > > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > > > > > > Bruce Campbell > > AC52 N4186B > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:22 PM PST US From: "Tom Fisher" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" I had a terrible leak in my 500B, every time I banked the plane it either rained on me or the co-pilot from the overhead console. Being the anal retentive person that I am I hunted down the leak and found it to be a seal between the wing root and the fuselage. Best of luck finding the leak, it's a good thing that you are not exposed to freezing temperatures. Tom F. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > In a message dated 1/2/03 3:09:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, > baruch@intelligentflight.com writes: > > > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > > > > My 680E leaks like a WW11 German U-Boat. It is not so much from the > corrugated material as from the Wing to Fuselage seals, but where ever it > comes from, it is a mess!! I visit my airplane daily and pull the tail down > (allowing water to run aft) then release. This allows water to migrate > forward and drain. I also drain every sump every day (this probably cost as > much as a hangar) > I have sealed everything imaginable and while there has been an > improvement, it is still a mess. I am making a proposal to the port > authority in the next couple of weeks to build a hangar here. Good Luck > Bruce. jb > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:12 PM PST US From: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" I hunted down the leak and found > it to be a seal between the wing root and the fuselage. This was from back in the 80's - from a previous owner of N198JW, "If you have the plane painted, be careful to have the joints sealed. I have put silicone on the joints and it has been watertight, but if this is removed, then it will leak quite a bit and it can do a lot of damage to the interior in a hurry. This is especially true around the wing roots." Digging back into the commander service bulletins, I found that they had one about sealing up the wing roots and it cost a lot of owners a lot of money complying. When one really gets right down to it, it's common sense. Much like Dr. Milt said: " Keep it in a hanger or cover it up." Unless, you are in the air and pressurized, you don't have to worry about you or the co-pilot getting rained on - 'cause the pressurization will push it back out the hole it came in from.:-) JRS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > > My 680F is pretty leaky too...always thought the water came in from the > windows, but had them re-sealed this summer, and it was just as wet as ever > after this year's first rain storm. The carpets get soaked, and everything > get's wet from condensation...real drag. I keep a pile of towels in my car > to soak up the water before each flight. > > Randy Dettmer > 680F/N6253X > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "n414c" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > > > > Can't be done. Keep it inside or cover it up. > > Milt > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bruce Campbell" > > To: > > Subject: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > > > > > has anyone had any luck getting a 520 to stay dry in heavy rain? Mine > > leaks from the corrugated sheet covering the tail. Its OK in light to > > moderate rain, but in heavy rain it admits a great deal of water, which > > eventually drains, but causes condensation in the cabin. This in turn > causes > > consternation among the passengers. > > > > > > One idea is to get up on the tail (via a VERY tall later or > chery-picker) > > and seal each of the 50+ voids in the covering of the vertical stab with > > ployuterethane caulking. But then there's the touchy issue of the rudder. > > Presumably sealing the corrugated on the rudder would result in a change > in > > the balance of the control. > > > > > > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > > > > > > > > > Bruce Campbell > > > AC52 N4186B > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:45 PM PST US From: "Bruce Campbell" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" I have managed to seal the cabin, no small task. Now only leakage is in the tail, which is conducted down the stringers into the baggage. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" > > I hunted down the leak and found > > it to be a seal between the wing root and the fuselage. > > This was from back in the 80's - from a previous owner of N198JW, "If you > have the plane painted, be careful to have the joints sealed. I have put > silicone on the joints and it has been watertight, but if this is removed, > then it will leak quite a bit and it can do a lot of damage to the interior > in a hurry. This is especially true around the wing roots." Digging back > into the commander service bulletins, I found that they had one about > sealing up the wing roots and it cost a lot of owners a lot of money > complying. When one really gets right down to it, it's common sense. Much > like Dr. Milt said: " Keep it in a hanger or cover it up." Unless, you are > in the air and pressurized, you don't have to worry about you or the > co-pilot getting rained on - 'cause the pressurization will push it back out > the hole it came in from.:-) > JRS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > > > > > My 680F is pretty leaky too...always thought the water came in from the > > windows, but had them re-sealed this summer, and it was just as wet as > ever > > after this year's first rain storm. The carpets get soaked, and > everything > > get's wet from condensation...real drag. I keep a pile of towels in my > car > > to soak up the water before each flight. > > > > Randy Dettmer > > 680F/N6253X > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "n414c" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > > > > > > Can't be done. Keep it inside or cover it up. > > > Milt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bruce Campbell" > > > To: > > > Subject: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > > > > > > > > has anyone had any luck getting a 520 to stay dry in heavy rain? Mine > > > leaks from the corrugated sheet covering the tail. Its OK in light to > > > moderate rain, but in heavy rain it admits a great deal of water, which > > > eventually drains, but causes condensation in the cabin. This in turn > > causes > > > consternation among the passengers. > > > > > > > > One idea is to get up on the tail (via a VERY tall later or > > chery-picker) > > > and seal each of the 50+ voids in the covering of the vertical stab with > > > ployuterethane caulking. But then there's the touchy issue of the > rudder. > > > Presumably sealing the corrugated on the rudder would result in a change > > in > > > the balance of the control. > > > > > > > > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce Campbell > > > > AC52 N4186B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:14 PM PST US From: "Lowell Girod" commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Lowell Girod" Bruce; I just had my 560E painted and in doing so, had the wing tops and fuselage sealed, took 12 tubes and 3 days labor, but hope it does the job. Time will tell I guess. Don > [Original Message] > From: Bruce Campbell > To: > Date: 1/2/03 7:31:39 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > I have managed to seal the cabin, no small task. Now only leakage is in the > tail, which is conducted down the stringers into the baggage. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" > > > > > I hunted down the leak and found > > > it to be a seal between the wing root and the fuselage. > > > > This was from back in the 80's - from a previous owner of N198JW, "If you > > have the plane painted, be careful to have the joints sealed. I have put > > silicone on the joints and it has been watertight, but if this is removed, > > then it will leak quite a bit and it can do a lot of damage to the > interior > > in a hurry. This is especially true around the wing roots." Digging back > > into the commander service bulletins, I found that they had one about > > sealing up the wing roots and it cost a lot of owners a lot of money > > complying. When one really gets right down to it, it's common sense. > Much > > like Dr. Milt said: " Keep it in a hanger or cover it up." Unless, you > are > > in the air and pressurized, you don't have to worry about you or the > > co-pilot getting rained on - 'cause the pressurization will push it back > out > > the hole it came in from.:-) > > JRS > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > > > > > > > > My 680F is pretty leaky too...always thought the water came in from the > > > windows, but had them re-sealed this summer, and it was just as wet as > > ever > > > after this year's first rain storm. The carpets get soaked, and > > everything > > > get's wet from condensation...real drag. I keep a pile of towels in my > > car > > > to soak up the water before each flight. > > > > > > Randy Dettmer > > > 680F/N6253X > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "n414c" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > > > > > > > > Can't be done. Keep it inside or cover it up. > > > > Milt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has anyone had any luck getting a 520 to stay dry in heavy rain? > Mine > > > > leaks from the corrugated sheet covering the tail. Its OK in light to > > > > moderate rain, but in heavy rain it admits a great deal of water, > which > > > > eventually drains, but causes condensation in the cabin. This in turn > > > causes > > > > consternation among the passengers. > > > > > > > > > > One idea is to get up on the tail (via a VERY tall later or > > > chery-picker) > > > > and seal each of the 50+ voids in the covering of the vertical stab > with > > > > ployuterethane caulking. But then there's the touchy issue of the > > rudder. > > > > Presumably sealing the corrugated on the rudder would result in a > change > > > in > > > > the balance of the control. > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce Campbell > > > > > AC52 N4186B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:50 PM PST US From: "Tom Fisher" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" 12 tubes of Proseal? Ouch. Tom F. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Girod" Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Lowell Girod" > > Bruce; > I just had my 560E painted and in doing so, had the wing tops and fuselage > sealed, took 12 tubes and 3 days labor, but hope it does the job. Time > will tell I guess. > Don > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Bruce Campbell > > To: > > Date: 1/2/03 7:31:39 PM > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > > I have managed to seal the cabin, no small task. Now only leakage is in > the > > tail, which is conducted down the stringers into the baggage. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jerry R. Sprayberry" > > > > > > > > I hunted down the leak and found > > > > it to be a seal between the wing root and the fuselage. > > > > > > This was from back in the 80's - from a previous owner of N198JW, "If > you > > > have the plane painted, be careful to have the joints sealed. I have > put > > > silicone on the joints and it has been watertight, but if this is > removed, > > > then it will leak quite a bit and it can do a lot of damage to the > > interior > > > in a hurry. This is especially true around the wing roots." Digging > back > > > into the commander service bulletins, I found that they had one about > > > sealing up the wing roots and it cost a lot of owners a lot of money > > > complying. When one really gets right down to it, it's common sense. > > Much > > > like Dr. Milt said: " Keep it in a hanger or cover it up." Unless, you > > are > > > in the air and pressurized, you don't have to worry about you or the > > > co-pilot getting rained on - 'cause the pressurization will push it back > > out > > > the hole it came in from.:-) > > > JRS > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" > > > > > > > > > > > My 680F is pretty leaky too...always thought the water came in from > the > > > > windows, but had them re-sealed this summer, and it was just as wet as > > > ever > > > > after this year's first rain storm. The carpets get soaked, and > > > everything > > > > get's wet from condensation...real drag. I keep a pile of towels in > my > > > car > > > > to soak up the water before each flight. > > > > > > > > Randy Dettmer > > > > 680F/N6253X > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "n414c" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "n414c" > > > > > > > > > > Can't be done. Keep it inside or cover it up. > > > > > Milt > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > > To: > > > > > Subject: Commander-List: sealing a 520 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has anyone had any luck getting a 520 to stay dry in heavy rain? > > Mine > > > > > leaks from the corrugated sheet covering the tail. Its OK in light > to > > > > > moderate rain, but in heavy rain it admits a great deal of water, > > which > > > > > eventually drains, but causes condensation in the cabin. This in > turn > > > > causes > > > > > consternation among the passengers. > > > > > > > > > > > > One idea is to get up on the tail (via a VERY tall later or > > > > chery-picker) > > > > > and seal each of the 50+ voids in the covering of the vertical stab > > with > > > > > ployuterethane caulking. But then there's the touchy issue of the > > > rudder. > > > > > Presumably sealing the corrugated on the rudder would result in a > > change > > > > in > > > > > the balance of the control. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone else's experiences/ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruce Campbell > > > > > > AC52 N4186B > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >