---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/26/03: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:27 AM - Re: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted (Barry Collman) 2. 05:27 AM - Aero Commander panels (Barry Collman) 3. 05:57 AM - Re:Aero Commander panels (alh1@juno.com) 4. 06:14 AM - argentina commanders (alh1@juno.com) 5. 07:33 AM - Re: Re:Aero Commander panels (Barry Collman) 6. 07:36 AM - Re: argentina commanders (Barry Collman) 7. 09:29 AM - Re: Aero Commander panels (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 8. 09:30 AM - Re: Aero Commander panels (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 9. 09:50 AM - Re: Aero Commander panels (Jim Addington) 10. 10:52 AM - Re: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted (Martini Luc J.R.) 11. 12:42 PM - Re: Re:Aero Commander panels (Nico van Niekerk) 12. 02:01 PM - Re: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted (MarcioK@aol.com) 13. 02:10 PM - Re: NEWSLETTERS (CloudCraft@aol.com) 14. 03:04 PM - Re: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted (Barry Collman) 15. 03:07 PM - Re: NEWSLETTERS (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 16. 06:29 PM - Re: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted (Martini Luc J.R.) 17. 09:47 PM - Re: Aero Commander panels (Derek Monk) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:22 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Luc, The Model 560 had GO-480 series engines. Initially, they were the -B variant, and later were -B1C. However, almost all of these had three-blade props, with HC-83X20 hubs and 8433 blades (and 84 inch diameter). The Model 560A had GO-480-D1A engines with HC-83X20 hubs and 8433 blades. The Model 560A(HC) and 560E had GO-480-C1B6 or -G1B6 engines, but these too had HC-83X20 series hubs, but now with 8833-2 blades (i.e. 86 inch diameter). I've not found any Commanders with 10133 blades.........................yet! Which Model Commander do you have? Best Regards to All, Barry C. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martini Luc J.R." Subject: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted | --> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." | | I have been told that the early aerocommanders used the GO-480 engine. Is that a correct statement. I know that these engines were also STC'd for the Navion, and I believe some Beech aircraft. | | I am looking for a set of 10133 blades (about 96 inch big boys) which would have fit on these engines using hub HC-82X20- or HC-A2-X20- . I did notice that somebody on the list indicated that the Military had used this prop on their commanders | | if anybody out there knows where to get some of these blades... Give me a holler. | | Thanks | | Luc Martini... I need a double about now! | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:22 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi guys, I'm wondering whether any of you have got some pictures of original Commander instrument panels. Could be that brochures or manuals have a shot. If so, we're looking for examples for the Model 680 and 500S for the FlightSim guys. It would be helpful if an indication of the year could be given too, as obviously these panels evolve somewhat as technology leapt forward. Up until now, 99.99% of my 8,600+ photo records are external views!! Very Best Regards, Barry C. (UK) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:54 AM PST US Subject: Re:Commander-List: Aero Commander panels From: alh1@juno.com --> Commander-List message posted by: alh1@juno.com barry, i just bought another commander, n6289B and it has the original panel and paint. i have started to redo everything in anticipation of reselling it in the near future. i will get as many pictures as i can and send them on. it is orange and white and looks just like the brochures. the radios are all in a little panel in the glareshield, but the actual radios were in the rack in the back. anything else you would like, let me know as we have already started work on it. my other 500 was originally n6287B so they came out of the factory together. i changed it to n628ah for obvious reasons. al hoffman ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:08 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: argentina commanders From: alh1@juno.com --> Commander-List message posted by: alh1@juno.com barry, did you ever get the information on the commanders that you wanted in argentina? i have been so busy, i have not been able to follow up. they were 500U's but were in questionable condition, especially with regard to the spar ad. i may go back this spring and I could get more information if there is something specific. I also met a lineman from North Perry Airport at the chevron on the north side of the field that was familiar with what he told me were several 690's on the ground in venezuela. he was from there and probably could get more information on those planes. apparently the government had them for drug smuggling. if you are interested i could ask the next time i am down there or maybe someone from ft. lauderdale could stop by and ask. al hoffman ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:01 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Re:Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Al, Many thanks. Any photos of panels would be useful, especially if we know the Model and the era. Of course, with instrumentation having got better as the years rolled by, it's probably going to be difficult to get hold of shots of the original, ex-factory set-ups. A straight 500 will be great, as that is one of the Models the guys are doing later! Very Best Regards, Barry ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re:Commander-List: Aero Commander panels | --> Commander-List message posted by: alh1@juno.com | | barry, i just bought another commander, n6289B and it has the original panel and paint. i have started to redo everything in anticipation of reselling it in the near future. i will get as many pictures as i can and send them on. it is orange and white and looks just like the brochures. the radios are all in a little panel in the glareshield, but the actual radios were in the rack in the back. anything else you would like, let me know as we have already started work on it. my other 500 was originally n6287B so they came out of the factory together. i changed it to n628ah for obvious reasons. al hoffman | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:51 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: argentina commanders --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi again Al, I emailed the guy in Argentina, but had no reply. However, a report I've just received said that 500B-1026-37, LV-HCM, was noted at Quilmes in March 2002 and was reported as being 'withdrawn from use'. So, anything you could try and get on either Argentinian or Venezuelan Commanders will be really great. As you can no doubt imagine, it's pretty difficult getting any info from south of the Texas border. Sincere Best Regards, Barry C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Commander-List: argentina commanders | --> Commander-List message posted by: alh1@juno.com | | barry, did you ever get the information on the commanders that you wanted in argentina? i have been so busy, i have not been able to follow up. they were 500U's but were in questionable condition, especially with regard to the spar ad. i may go back this spring and I could get more information if there is something specific. I also met a lineman from North Perry Airport at the chevron on the north side of the field that was familiar with what he told me were several 690's on the ground in venezuela. he was from there and probably could get more information on those planes. apparently the government had them for drug smuggling. if you are interested i could ask the next time i am down there or maybe someone from ft. lauderdale could stop by and ask. al hoffman | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:52 AM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 1/26/03 5:27:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes: > I'm wondering whether any of you have got some pictures of original > Commander > instrument panels. Could be that brochures or manuals have a shot. I have an original 680 panel from a wonderful 1957 brochure. jb I may have a photo from a magazine article on the 500S ?? jb ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:29 AM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 1/26/03 5:58:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, alh1@juno.com writes: > barry, i just bought another commander, n6289B and it has the original panel > and paint. i have started to redo everything in anticipation of reselling > it in the near future. i will get as many pictures as i can and send them > on. it is orange and white and looks just like the brochures. the radios > are all in a little panel in the glareshield, but the actual radios were in > the rack in the back. anything else you would like, let me know as we have > already started work on it. my other 500 was originally n6287B so they > came out of the factory together. i changed it to n628ah for obvious > reasons. al hoffman > Remember I have an STC for your propellers!! jb ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:49 AM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" Barry, There is a fairly good panel picture of a 500A panel on page 2 of the magazine article I sent. It is a 1960 model. Jim N444BD -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Collman Subject: Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi guys, I'm wondering whether any of you have got some pictures of original Commander instrument panels. Could be that brochures or manuals have a shot. If so, we're looking for examples for the Model 680 and 500S for the FlightSim guys. It would be helpful if an indication of the year could be given too, as obviously these panels evolve somewhat as technology leapt forward. Up until now, 99.99% of my 8,600+ photo records are external views!! Very Best Regards, Barry C. (UK) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:31 AM PST US From: "Martini Luc J.R." Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted --> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." Thanks for the input. I don't have a commander... but a Dornier Do27, which uses the GO-480B1A6 and the 10133 blades. I was hoping some of the 2 blade commanders might have the same blades. Thanks again Luc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" > > Hi Luc, > > The Model 560 had GO-480 series engines. Initially, they were the -B variant, > and later were -B1C. > > However, almost all of these had three-blade props, with HC-83X20 hubs and 8433 > blades (and 84 inch diameter). > > The Model 560A had GO-480-D1A engines with HC-83X20 hubs and 8433 blades. > > The Model 560A(HC) and 560E had GO-480-C1B6 or -G1B6 engines, but these too had > HC-83X20 series hubs, but now with 8833-2 blades (i.e. 86 inch diameter). > > I've not found any Commanders with 10133 blades.........................yet! > > Which Model Commander do you have? > > Best Regards to All, > > Barry C. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martini Luc J.R." > To: > Subject: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted > > > Is > that a correct statement. I know that these engines were also STC'd for the > Navion, and I believe some Beech aircraft. would > have fit on these engines using hub HC-82X20- or HC-A2-X20- . I did notice > that somebody on the list indicated that the Military had used this prop on > their commanders a > holler. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:36 PM PST US From: "Nico van Niekerk" Subject: Re: Re:Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" I have some video of my straight 500's panel with some new kit (HSI etc) plugged into some of the holes, but it was pretty much standard at the time. If you believe it would be useful, let me know. Thanks Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Re:Commander-List: Aero Commander panels > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" > > Hi Al, > > Many thanks. Any photos of panels would be useful, especially if we know the > Model and the era. Of course, with instrumentation having got better as the > years rolled by, it's probably going to be difficult to get hold of shots of the > original, ex-factory set-ups. > > A straight 500 will be great, as that is one of the Models the guys are doing > later! > > Very Best Regards, > > Barry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re:Commander-List: Aero Commander panels > > panel > and paint. i have started to redo everything in anticipation of reselling it in > the near future. i will get as many pictures as i can and send them on. it is > orange and white and looks just like the brochures. the radios are all in a > little panel in the glareshield, but the actual radios were in the rack in the > back. anything else you would like, let me know as we have already started work > on it. my other 500 was originally n6287B so they came out of the factory > together. i changed it to n628ah for obvious reasons. al hoffman > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:22 PM PST US From: MarcioK@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted --> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com Luc, I think some Piaggios use those engines, maybe it's worth taking a look. It's your props two-bladed ? In the prop blade number, 101 is the diameter in inches, 33 is the basic model. If you say the diameter is 96 inches, I think the complete number should be 10133 with a minus sign like 10133-5 (or -10, I'm not quit sure. -5 would be too obvious, I think there's still some catch on this rule). But try calling Hartzell, they are surprisingly helpful people. Phone No. is (937) 778-4379, and there's also their webpage www.hartzellprop.com. Lots of info there. Good luck Marcio ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:26 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: NEWSLETTERS --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 01/24/03 13:06:47 Pacific Standard Time, YOURTCFG@aol.com writes: > Their dissolution would have been a disaster for > all GA but paretically Commanderland. There are several major contributors > > to out airplanes in this region, including the factory. I just received a > letter from the feds stating that at least they are considering other > options. Not exactly what we were hoping for, but certainly better that > what > they originally had planed for us. This is a really big deal and I will > keep > you posted. > Capt. JimBob, Thank you so much for attending and representing Twin Commanders. The FAA has been placing a lot of "clout" with owners' groups as our aircraft age and the OEMs tend to forsake older models while pursuing certification of new models. The TCFG (as well as Cessna, Beech, Piper, etc.) owners' associations play a key role in educating the FAA and in some cases, are tasked with self-enforcing fixes that would otherwise become ADs. Keep up the good work ... and if you're a Commander owner / operator/ want to be, please join! Wing Commander Gordon PS: Looking forward to the news letter -- sounds like a great issue! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:27 PM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi All, Marcio is right. A '10133-5' prop should be 96" diameter. But, he's right again, there are some deviations from the norm. Another good source for info would be the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheets. These have a pretty good search engine, so you should be able to find out more info there. I'm pretty sure that typing in '10133' should pull up the relevant Hartzell TCDS and sometimes these give aircraft/engine/prop approved combinations. Best Regards, Barry C. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted | --> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com | | Luc, I think some Piaggios use those engines, maybe it's worth taking a look. | It's your props two-bladed ? In the prop blade number, 101 is the diameter in | inches, 33 is the basic model. If you say the diameter is 96 inches, I think | the complete number should be 10133 with a minus sign like 10133-5 (or -10, | I'm not quit sure. -5 would be too obvious, I think there's still some catch | on this rule). | But try calling Hartzell, they are surprisingly helpful people. | Phone No. is (937) 778-4379, and there's also their webpage | www.hartzellprop.com. | Lots of info there. | Good luck | Marcio | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:51 PM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: NEWSLETTERS --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 1/26/03 2:10:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, CloudCraft@aol.com writes: > PS: Looking forward to the news letter -- sounds like a great issue! > Thanks for the kind words and it will be in Mondays mail!! jb ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:29:10 PM PST US From: "Martini Luc J.R." Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted --> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." Thanks again. Yest the Piaggio 149's used a GO-480 engine. However, I think they used the Turbo 345 Hp version, which swung a 3 blade prop. I did contact Hartzell last year. The guy I spoke with did not come up with any information on what other airplanes used that prop. Yes, the 96 inch has a few inches lobed off the end from the original 101 inches... the dash number on the end typically are -D3 or -N3, but I though that referred to how much the Shank was reamed out. Luc ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: GO-480 engines??? 10133 Prop Blades Wanted > --> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com > > Luc, I think some Piaggios use those engines, maybe it's worth taking a look. > It's your props two-bladed ? In the prop blade number, 101 is the diameter in > inches, 33 is the basic model. If you say the diameter is 96 inches, I think > the complete number should be 10133 with a minus sign like 10133-5 (or -10, > I'm not quit sure. -5 would be too obvious, I think there's still some catch > on this rule). > But try calling Hartzell, they are surprisingly helpful people. > Phone No. is (937) 778-4379, and there's also their webpage > www.hartzellprop.com. > Lots of info there. > Good luck > Marcio > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:04 PM PST US From: Derek Monk Subject: Re: Commander-List: Aero Commander panels --> Commander-List message posted by: Derek Monk Hi Barry, I have a few prints of original 500S cockpit instrumentation panels under and after assembly at the factory. I have some 1969 thru' 75, brochure pics too. Not much on the 680 so far but I'm still looking. It will be about a week before I can scan them. Derek Monk Barry Collman wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" > >Hi guys, > >I'm wondering whether any of you have got some pictures of original Commander >instrument panels. Could be that brochures or manuals have a shot. > >If so, we're looking for examples for the Model 680 and 500S for the FlightSim >guys. It would be helpful if an indication of the year could be given too, as >obviously these panels evolve somewhat as technology leapt forward. > >Up until now, 99.99% of my 8,600+ photo records are external views!! > >Very Best Regards, > >Barry C. (UK) > >