Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:40 AM - Re: "Breakup" (CloudCraft@aol.com)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: "Breakup" (TILLMAN333@aol.com)
3. 08:21 AM - Re: "Breakup" (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
4. 08:38 AM - Re: "Breakup" (Tom Fisher)
5. 09:01 AM - Fw: 690B over Homerville, Ga. (Stephen Crow)
6. 09:12 AM - Re: Tylor-What is your Email address (Tylor Hall)
7. 10:41 AM - Re: "Breakup" (N414C)
8. 11:05 AM - Re: Tylor-What is your Email address (Bill Bow)
9. 11:14 AM - Re: "Breakup" (Bill Bow)
10. 11:15 AM - Re: "Breakup" (Nico van Niekerk)
11. 11:17 AM - Re: "Breakup" (Nico van Niekerk)
12. 12:10 PM - Re: "Breakup" (CloudCraft@aol.com)
13. 12:17 PM - Re: "Breakup" (CloudCraft@aol.com)
14. 12:21 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Chris Schuermann)
15. 12:24 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Bill Bow)
16. 12:31 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Bill Bow)
17. 01:41 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Stephen Crow)
18. 01:42 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Stephen Crow)
19. 03:19 PM - Re: "Breakup" (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
20. 03:33 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Tom Fisher)
21. 04:11 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Bill Hamilton)
22. 04:11 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Bill Hamilton)
23. 04:18 PM - Re: "Breakup" (Tom Fisher)
24. 09:25 PM - Matronics ISP Upgrade COMPLETED! (Matt Dralle)
25. 11:41 PM - Whirl Mode and Flutter (William Laxson)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 04/01/03 10:43:51 Pacific Standard Time,
TILLMAN333@aol.com writes:
> Do any of you in Commanderland know of a "In-flight Breakup"
> of a Twin Commander?
Recently? No.
I only know of three. The first was the one that caused the bob weight
modification. Legend has it a fellow was recovering from a T-Storm
encounter and pulled the tail off. This was an early piston model and I'm
not sure of the year, but it was 30 years ago, I think.
Next was an AC-690C (model 840) on descent into the Denver area. It was a
freighter operated out of Cheyenne, Wyoming and was on a high speed descent.
This happened about 5-6 years ago.
A United Airlines B-737 reported severe turbulence along the same arrival
route and slowed down. The pilot of the Turbo Commander did not and pulled
the tail off. Radar plots show his ground speed to be ... hauling ass. This
is the root cause of of the admonition to keep descent speeds off the red
line.
Next was an air ambulance flight that had a tail separation over the Reno,
Nevada area. This one begat SB218 -- the tail beef up mod on the Turbo
Commander (and 685).
Anyone see a trend here?
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
690 Break UP
go to the web site
<A HREF="www.flysafeinsurance.com">www.flysafeinsurance.com
Go to the link titled NTSB the info. is in the Month of March date of
loss
March 27, 2003 Homerville, Georgia.
Fly Safe,
Gary Tillman
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 4/2/2003 8:01:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
TILLMAN333@aol.com writes:
> 690 Break UP
> go to the web site
Jeffery Pence was called away from the meeting without explanation, now we
know why. jb
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Your page is not coming up for me.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
>
> 690 Break UP
> go to the web site
>
> <A HREF="www.flysafeinsurance.com">www.flysafeinsurance.com
>
> Go to the link titled NTSB the info. is in the Month of March date of
> loss
> March 27, 2003 Homerville, Georgia.
> Fly Safe,
> Gary Tillman
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Fw: 690B over Homerville, Ga. |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Stephen Crow <k4cpx@arrl.net>
from: Steve. C.
Subject: 690b over Homerville, Ga.
NTSB Identification: ATL03FA068
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, March 27, 2003 in Homerville, GA
Aircraft: Rockwell 690B, registration: N53LG
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On March 27, 2003, at 0113 eastern standard time, a Rockwell 690B, N53LG, registered
to Haulers Insurance Company Inc., operating as a 14 CFR Part 91 positioning
flight, broke up in-flight while descending in the vicinity of Homerville,
Georgia. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and an instrument flight
plan was filed. The airplane was destroyed. The commercial pilot and pilot rated
airline transport pilot passenger received fatal injuries. The flight originated
from Mount Pleasant, Tennessee, at 2300 eastern central time.
Review of radar data revealed the airplane was at 27,000 feet heading southeast
at 01:11:41. At 01:11:55, the airplane was at 26,600 feet in a left turn. At
01:11:57, the airplane was at 25,700 feet. At 01:12:04, the airplane was heading
northeast at 23,200 feet. At 01:12:10, a pilot from N53LG stated, "May Day,
May Day." The controller asked the aircraft calling to say again and there was
no response. The last radar return was at 01:12:16, and the airplane was at
16,500 feet.
Examination of the crash site revealed portions of the left and right outboard
wings, left and right horizontal stabilizers, elevators, vertical stabilizer,
and rudder assembly separated from the airframe in flight. The crash debris line
extended 8,081 feet.
Index for Mar2003 | Index of months
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tylor-What is your Email address |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tylor Hall" <tylor@winddancer.aero>
I am at Tylor@winddancer.aero.
It changed recently with the new web page.
Regards,
Tylor Hall
Wind Dancer Aviation Services, Inc.
2V1, Pagosa Springs, CO
www.winddancer.aero
970-731-2127
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Fisher
Subject: Commander-List: Tylor-What is your Email address
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
<tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<winddancer@centurytel.net>
(reason: 550 5.1.1 <winddancer@centurytel.net>... User unknown)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to [209.142.136.96]:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 5.1.1 <winddancer@centurytel.net>... User unknown
550 5.1.1 <winddancer@centurytel.net>... User unknown
<<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "N414C" <N414C@direcway.com>
I see the trend but sure don't like the idea of having my tail beefed up.
The tail of my plane however has been augmented according to SB218
Milt
----- separation over the Reno,
> Nevada area. This one begat SB218 -- the tail beef up mod on the Turbo
> Commander (and 685).
>
> Anyone see a trend here?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tylor-What is your Email address |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Milt,
Wake up. It's not the Pinko Commies anymore it's the Muslim Extreamists.
Beter dead than a rag on your head!!(nosalgic)
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "N414C" <N414C@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Tylor-What is your Email address
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "N414C" <N414C@direcway.com>
>
> Try 1 800 Commie
> Milt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: Tylor-What is your Email address
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
> <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> >
> > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> > <winddancer@centurytel.net>
> > (reason: 550 5.1.1 <winddancer@centurytel.net>... User unknown)
> >
> > ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> > ... while talking to [209.142.136.96]:
> > >>> DATA
> > <<< 550 5.1.1 <winddancer@centurytel.net>... User unknown
> > 550 5.1.1 <winddancer@centurytel.net>... User unknown
> > <<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
SLOW DOWN???
Speed kills?????
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 04/01/03 10:43:51 Pacific Standard Time,
> TILLMAN333@aol.com writes:
>
>
> > Do any of you in Commanderland know of a "In-flight Breakup"
> > of a Twin Commander?
>
> Recently? No.
>
> I only know of three. The first was the one that caused the bob weight
> modification. Legend has it a fellow was recovering from a T-Storm
> encounter and pulled the tail off. This was an early piston model and
I'm
> not sure of the year, but it was 30 years ago, I think.
>
> Next was an AC-690C (model 840) on descent into the Denver area. It was
a
> freighter operated out of Cheyenne, Wyoming and was on a high speed
descent.
> This happened about 5-6 years ago.
>
> A United Airlines B-737 reported severe turbulence along the same arrival
> route and slowed down. The pilot of the Turbo Commander did not and
pulled
> the tail off. Radar plots show his ground speed to be ... hauling ass.
This
> is the root cause of of the admonition to keep descent speeds off the red
> line.
>
> Next was an air ambulance flight that had a tail separation over the Reno,
> Nevada area. This one begat SB218 -- the tail beef up mod on the Turbo
> Commander (and 685).
>
> Anyone see a trend here?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
What is a "positioning flight?" I read some other accident reports also and
they all refer to the flights as "positioning".
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
>
> 690 Break UP
> go to the web site
>
> <A HREF="www.flysafeinsurance.com">www.flysafeinsurance.com
>
> Go to the link titled NTSB the info. is in the Month of March date of
> loss
> March 27, 2003 Homerville, Georgia.
> Fly Safe,
> Gary Tillman
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Tom,
You have to strip off the quotes and the part that follows the last quote.
As that address is, it won't work.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
<tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
>
> Your page is not coming up for me.
>
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
> >
> > 690 Break UP
> > go to the web site
> >
> > <A HREF="www.flysafeinsurance.com">www.flysafeinsurance.com
> >
> > Go to the link titled NTSB the info. is in the Month of March date
of
> > loss
> > March 27, 2003 Homerville, Georgia.
> > Fly Safe,
> > Gary Tillman
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 04/02/03 10:40:45 Pacific Standard Time,
N414C@direcway.com writes:
> I see the trend but sure don't like the idea of having my tail beefed up.
Yes. Well, then do not fly to San Francisco, New Orleans, Fire Island, South
Beach and a few other places and your tail should be safe.
For mandatory flights to those destinations, I suggest the Rockwell Orifice
Protection System as part of your travel gear. It's a handy kit with 6
appropriately sized corks, plugs and covers.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 04/02/03 11:16:07 Pacific Standard Time,
nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:
> What is a "positioning flight?" I read some other accident reports also and
> they all refer to the flights as "positioning".
Refers to a flight where no passengers or cargo are on board and the crew is
positioning the aircraft for the pick up of pax or cargo, or, in air carrier
terms, the next "revenue leg."
The term is used in Part 91 operations as well, connoting that it's a
crew-only leg.
As to Bilbo's question, "Speed Kills?" Only when it can over stress
structure. So in the 685/690 series airframes, it's not a good idea to
harness the potential energy of altitude and come screaming down near or at
red line.
Pity, isn't it?
Wing Commander Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
CloudCraft@aol.com wrote:
> I suggest the Rockwell Orifice Protection System as part of your travel gear.
Is a Rockwell hardness tester part of this system?
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Yup, a pity. I flew Electras. It wasn't the tail it was the wings. The
end result is the same.
Rapid deceleration syndrome, it sucks
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 04/02/03 11:16:07 Pacific Standard Time,
> nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
>
> > What is a "positioning flight?" I read some other accident reports also
and
> > they all refer to the flights as "positioning".
>
> Refers to a flight where no passengers or cargo are on board and the crew
is
> positioning the aircraft for the pick up of pax or cargo, or, in air
carrier
> terms, the next "revenue leg."
>
> The term is used in Part 91 operations as well, connoting that it's a
> crew-only leg.
>
> As to Bilbo's question, "Speed Kills?" Only when it can over stress
> structure. So in the 685/690 series airframes, it's not a good idea to
> harness the potential energy of altitude and come screaming down near or
at
> red line.
>
> Pity, isn't it?
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Just the depth gauge.;>)
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
> CloudCraft@aol.com wrote:
> > I suggest the Rockwell Orifice Protection System as part of your travel
gear.
>
> Is a Rockwell hardness tester part of this system?
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: Stephen Crow <k4cpx@arrl.net>
Just moving an aircraft to a new location.....
----- Original Message -----
From: Nico van Niekerk
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
What is a "positioning flight?" I read some other accident reports also and
they all refer to the flights as "positioning".
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
>
> 690 Break UP
> go to the web site
>
> <A HREF="www.flysafeinsurance.com">www.flysafeinsurance.com
>
> Go to the link titled NTSB the info. is in the Month of March date of
> loss
> March 27, 2003 Homerville, Georgia.
> Fly Safe,
> Gary Tillman
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: Stephen Crow <k4cpx@arrl.net>
You must include Key West Fl in this list.....
----- Original Message -----
From: CloudCraft@aol.com
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 04/02/03 10:40:45 Pacific Standard Time,
N414C@direcway.com writes:
> I see the trend but sure don't like the idea of having my tail beefed up.
Yes. Well, then do not fly to San Francisco, New Orleans, Fire Island, South
Beach and a few other places and your tail should be safe.
For mandatory flights to those destinations, I suggest the Rockwell Orifice
Protection System as part of your travel gear. It's a handy kit with 6
appropriately sized corks, plugs and covers.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Guys,
Is it just me, or does everyone keep getting the same emails over and over
again from commander-list? I read them, delete them, and then they show up
again later. This just started today.
Moe Mills
N680RR
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
I did not use quotes but the site is coming up now thanks.
Tom...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> Tom,
> You have to strip off the quotes and the part that follows the last quote.
> As that address is, it won't work.
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
> <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
> >
> > Your page is not coming up for me.
> >
> > Tom F.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> >
> >
> > > --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
> > >
> > > 690 Break UP
> > > go to the web site
> > >
> > > <A HREF="www.flysafeinsurance.com">www.flysafeinsurance.com
> > >
> > > Go to the link titled NTSB the info. is in the Month of March date
> of
> > > loss
> > > March 27, 2003 Homerville, Georgia.
> > > Fly Safe,
> > > Gary Tillman
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton <fighterf@ozemail.com.au>
Bilbo,
Re. the L-188 wing problems, as my memory tells me, the problem was "whirl
mode" vibration, leading to the failure of the structure between the core
engine and the prop gearbox, and the result was the whole prop assembly
tearing loose and destroying the surrounding wing structure.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
At 03:19 PM 2/04/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
>
>Yup, a pity. I flew Electras. It wasn't the tail it was the wings. The
>end result is the same.
>
>Rapid deceleration syndrome, it sucks
>
>bilbo
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 04/02/03 11:16:07 Pacific Standard Time,
> > nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:
> >
> >
> > > What is a "positioning flight?" I read some other accident reports also
>and
> > > they all refer to the flights as "positioning".
> >
> > Refers to a flight where no passengers or cargo are on board and the crew
>is
> > positioning the aircraft for the pick up of pax or cargo, or, in air
>carrier
> > terms, the next "revenue leg."
> >
> > The term is used in Part 91 operations as well, connoting that it's a
> > crew-only leg.
> >
> > As to Bilbo's question, "Speed Kills?" Only when it can over stress
> > structure. So in the 685/690 series airframes, it's not a good idea to
> > harness the potential energy of altitude and come screaming down near or
>at
> > red line.
> >
> > Pity, isn't it?
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> > Wing Commander Gordon
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton <fighterf@ozemail.com.au>
All,
There was also a piston model broke up in the air in NZ, in the 60's I
think from memory,but this was a spar failure, and all the spar problems
and resultant AD's are well known.
The NZ aircraft had been subject to some pretty severe operating
conditions, although conditions on the final flight were not severe, as I
recall, just time ran out with the spreading crack.
Regards,
Bill Hamilton.
At 10:38 AM 2/04/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 04/01/03 10:43:51 Pacific Standard Time,
>TILLMAN333@aol.com writes:
>
>
> > Do any of you in Commanderland know of a "In-flight Breakup"
> > of a Twin Commander?
>
>Recently? No.
>
>I only know of three. The first was the one that caused the bob weight
>modification. Legend has it a fellow was recovering from a T-Storm
>encounter and pulled the tail off. This was an early piston model and I'm
>not sure of the year, but it was 30 years ago, I think.
>
>Next was an AC-690C (model 840) on descent into the Denver area. It was a
>freighter operated out of Cheyenne, Wyoming and was on a high speed descent.
>This happened about 5-6 years ago.
>
>A United Airlines B-737 reported severe turbulence along the same arrival
>route and slowed down. The pilot of the Turbo Commander did not and pulled
>the tail off. Radar plots show his ground speed to be ... hauling ass. This
>is the root cause of of the admonition to keep descent speeds off the red
>line.
>
>Next was an air ambulance flight that had a tail separation over the Reno,
>Nevada area. This one begat SB218 -- the tail beef up mod on the Turbo
>Commander (and 685).
>
>Anyone see a trend here?
>
>Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Not me, I receive only one copy of each Email.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: <MOEMILLS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: "Breakup"
> --> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
>
> Guys,
>
> Is it just me, or does everyone keep getting the same emails over and over
> again from commander-list? I read them, delete them, and then they show
up
> again later. This just started today.
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
>
>
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Matronics ISP Upgrade COMPLETED! |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I just wanted to send out a quick note to let everyone know that the 1.5Mb
T1 connection upgrade went smoothly today. They brought up the new line
and router yesterday on a test subnet and today the ISP switched over
connectivity about 12 noon with little to no incident. I just finished
some performance testing, and it appears that actual throughput and
interactive response is noticeably improved as advertised!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Whirl Mode and Flutter |
--> Commander-List message posted by: William Laxson <wlaxson1@corecom.net>
> Re the L-188 wing problems, as my memory tells me, the problem was "whirl
> mode" vibration .....
Short video of electra whirl mode here:
http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/asm/Web/Site/QT/PWFlutter.html
Twin Comanche tail flutter video here:
http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/asm/Web/Site/QT/TCFlutter.html
Onset of flutter is one of the factors determining where the red line is
painted on the ASI.
William Laxson
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|