Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:07 AM - (Victor Fernandez Cochon)
2. 07:06 AM - Bendix Fuel Flow Gages (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: Commander Crash (TILLMAN333@aol.com)
4. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (Kerry Johnson)
5. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (Barry Collman)
6. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (John Vormbaum)
7. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (Barry Collman)
8. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (TILLMAN333@aol.com)
9. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (Nico van Niekerk)
10. 01:55 PM - Re: (William Boelte)
11. 02:20 PM - Re: (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
12. 04:17 PM - Re: (Max and Sharon)
13. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (Andrew & Bridget Watson)
14. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (Nico van Niekerk)
15. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Commander Crash (Andrew & Bridget Watson)
16. 10:08 PM - Re: (MarcioK@aol.com)
17. 10:08 PM - Re: (MarcioK@aol.com)
18. 10:10 PM - Re: (MarcioK@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Victor Fernandez Cochon" <vfc@fernandezgonzalez.com>
Hello,
Anyone knows of a good shop where I can O/H a hyd. Pump near the Florida area?
I want to O/H the R.E. Pump before it is installed.
How much do they go for more or less?
Thanks,
Victor
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bendix Fuel Flow Gages |
--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Fellow Commander Drivers:
The Bendix fuel flow Gage, and both transducers have just been completely
rebuilt in my 680F(p) with IGSO540B1A engines. This includes a new inverter.
While in cruse they seem to be accurate. When the engine RPM and MFD
pressure is set at 65% power, and the fuel flow is set at 65% power, the EGT
appears to be very close to peak. My question concerns their behavior at
very low power settings. They seem to be quite a bit off then. Also when
the engines are shut off and the master switch is shut off the two needles on
the gage do not ruturn to the same place (about 3/8" apart at the tips).
Keeping in mind the old saying "DC dies and AC lies, I am wondering if this
is normal?
Thanks for any suggestions.
Moe Mills
N680RR
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
Commanderland:
Please advise if you know who was flying Commander N243M. AC 560F
One fatality.
Also,
the State of South Carolina lost a 500S after T/O.
Fuel Contamination?
Thanks,
Gary Tillman
PS. this data supplied by NTSB
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry@kvelectric.com>
Here's the registration info.
N243M
Serial Number: 295
Registered Owner: NEASHAM RICHARD D
City: TUCSON
State: AZ
Zip: 85718
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TILLMAN333@aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
--> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
Commanderland:
Please advise if you know who was flying Commander N243M. AC 560F
One fatality.
Also,
the State of South Carolina lost a 500S after T/O.
Fuel Contamination?
Thanks,
Gary Tillman
PS. this data supplied by NTSB
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
CommanderLand,
If the Commander which crashed near Tucson was N243M, then it's a Commander
200D, not a twin. If it was a Model 560, then the 'N' number is wrong.
The State of Carolina's 500S was that rather nice one we saw at West Columbia at
last year's Fly-In, N19WL, 500S-3160, the first Grand Renaissance Shrike.
So far, it's been a bad month.
Barry C.
CommanderLand (UK) Rep.
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
| --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
|
| Commanderland:
| Please advise if you know who was flying Commander N243M. AC 560F
| One fatality.
| Also,
| the State of South Carolina lost a 500S after T/O.
| Fuel Contamination?
| Thanks,
| Gary Tillman
| PS. this data supplied by NTSB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Barry,
I think, if it's s/n 295, that would make it a 560A(HC), no?
/John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> CommanderLand,
>
> If the Commander which crashed near Tucson was N243M, then it's a
Commander
> 200D, not a twin. If it was a Model 560, then the 'N' number is wrong.
>
> The State of Carolina's 500S was that rather nice one we saw at West
Columbia at
> last year's Fly-In, N19WL, 500S-3160, the first Grand Renaissance Shrike.
>
> So far, it's been a bad month.
>
> Barry C.
> CommanderLand (UK) Rep.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi John,
No, serial 295 is an 'ordinary' 560A, with 275h.p. engines (GO-480-D1A).
Last I heard of it (June 1995), it was still in the Philippines, as RP-C644,
having been there for just over 40 years.
Best Regards,
Barry C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
| --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
|
| Barry,
|
| I think, if it's s/n 295, that would make it a 560A(HC), no?
|
| /John
|
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
| To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
|
|
| > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
| <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
| >
| > CommanderLand,
| >
| > If the Commander which crashed near Tucson was N243M, then it's a
| Commander
| > 200D, not a twin. If it was a Model 560, then the 'N' number is wrong.
| >
| > The State of Carolina's 500S was that rather nice one we saw at West
| Columbia at
| > last year's Fly-In, N19WL, 500S-3160, the first Grand Renaissance Shrike.
| >
| > So far, it's been a bad month.
| >
| > Barry C.
| > CommanderLand (UK) Rep.
| >
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
| > To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
| > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
| >
| >
| > | --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
| > |
| > | Commanderland:
| > | Please advise if you know who was flying Commander N243M. AC 560F
| > | One fatality.
| > | Also,
| > | the State of South Carolina lost a 500S after T/O.
| > | Fuel Contamination?
| > | Thanks,
| > | Gary Tillman
| > | PS. this data supplied by NTSB
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
The NTSB shows the Crash of a 560.
With the N# N243M.
Something is wrong!...
Also, SIR Barry Good to hear from you...
GT
check out the NTSB file on our links
www.flysafeinsurance.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
It sounds like fuel contamination. Glad the guys survived.
It happened to me once. I landed at a smaller airport in South Africa which
was frequented by courier planes as a fuel stop. King Airs, Merlins, AC690's
and so on were regularly on the ramp. So, my AC500 looked like it was in
need of avtur and the attendant smartly filled the tanks with kerosene while
I was taking a rental car into town. Upon my return I found the bill to be
much lower than expected also for the number of gallons pumped shown on the
receipt. If I was materially dishonest or greedy and thought it a mistake
from which I could take advantage, I would have bought some real estate off
the end of the runway that day. So, I complained that something was the
matter. After discovering the mistake, the FBO was very apologetic, shuttled
me to the main airport on the other side of town to catch an airline flight
home, drained all the kerosene out of the Commander, filled it with avgas,
drained that out again, filled it anew, took a sample and sent it to Mobil
for analysis, called me that it was OK, paid for my flight tickets round
trip, and bought me lunch. Nice end to a story, huh? Only if it were the
end.
The Department of Civil Aviation got to hear about it and the wheels of
bureaucracy started its downhill trend, by writing me a letter demanding
that I explain myself for putting the wrong fuel in the plane, which is a
violation of the CA code. With a ton of confidence I wrote back explaining
that I did my duty in terms of the Code by detecting the wrong fuel before
operating the plane, as part of the preflight inspection. But, they argued,
the code's intention is to prevent the wrong fuel from getting into the
plane in the first place. The fact that I detected it before flying is no
excuse and I merely stated the obvious in terms of the duties of the PIC,
they said. I should have supervised the fueling operation to make sure that
the correct fuel was selected. How many of us do that? It makes sense,
thinking about it in retrospect I guess, but it's just one of those things
that I took for granted that the attendants know what they are doing. But
which AC's fly on avtur and which ones on avgas, was perhaps a bit much to
ask, especially when they were refueling turbines almost exclusively at that
FBO, unless, of course, it has one fan and low wings and can be pushed
around by the pilot.
Anyway, point taken, I ate crow, wrote nice letters and they fortunately
decided not to pursue it any further.
Now it's the end of the story.
But what a fabulous FBO, don't you think? Later I planned refueling there
just to show my gratitude.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <TILLMAN333@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
> --> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
>
> The NTSB shows the Crash of a 560.
> With the N# N243M.
> Something is wrong!...
> Also, SIR Barry Good to hear from you...
> GT
> check out the NTSB file on our links
>
> www.flysafeinsurance.com
>
>
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "William Boelte" <n55bz@cox-internet.com>
Try Paul Finefrock of Thunderbird Accessories, Inc
5406 N Rockwell
Bethany, OK 73008
405-789-1822
Paul overhauled two engine driven fuel pumps for me and did a super job. He
also does the hydraulic pumps. One of them was $576.00 and the other $843.00
(the case was cracked).
Kindest regards,
Bill
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Fernandez Cochon" <vfc@fernandezgonzalez.com>
Subject: Commander-List:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Victor Fernandez Cochon"
<vfc@fernandezgonzalez.com>
>
> Hello,
> Anyone knows of a good shop where I can O/H a hyd. Pump near the Florida
area?
> I want to O/H the R.E. Pump before it is installed.
> How much do they go for more or less?
> Thanks,
> Victor
>
>
Message 11
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Does this refer to the high pressure pumps used in the pressurized models?
Moe Mills
N680RR
Message 12
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Max and Sharon" <max2150@sbcglobal.net>
Victor, I'd think twice before I sent anything to Finefrock.
Max Schuermann---Grove, Oklahoma
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Boelte" <n55bz@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "William Boelte"
<n55bz@cox-internet.com>
>
> Try Paul Finefrock of Thunderbird Accessories, Inc
> 5406 N Rockwell
> Bethany, OK 73008
> 405-789-1822
>
> Paul overhauled two engine driven fuel pumps for me and did a super job.
He
> also does the hydraulic pumps. One of them was $576.00 and the other
$843.00
> (the case was cracked).
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Bill
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Fernandez Cochon" <vfc@fernandezgonzalez.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List:
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Victor Fernandez Cochon"
> <vfc@fernandezgonzalez.com>
> >
> > Hello,
> > Anyone knows of a good shop where I can O/H a hyd. Pump near the Florida
> area?
> > I want to O/H the R.E. Pump before it is installed.
> > How much do they go for more or less?
> > Thanks,
> > Victor
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget@shaw.ca>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> The Department of Civil Aviation got to hear about it and the wheels of
> bureaucracy started its downhill trend, by writing me a letter demanding
> that I explain myself for putting the wrong fuel in the plane, which is a
> violation of the CA code.
>
> Nico
>
>
Now that's so typical of the DCA in all parts of Africa. My Dad had a run
in with the DCA in Zimbabwe too - same crowd, different country, with his
Beech V35A. The FBO who did the overhaul on his prop didn't do a proper job
and to cut a long story short he had a runaway prop shortly after take-off
at Bulawayo Main. He shut down and managed a forced landing at Induna
airfield - no damage to the aircraft or anybody else, but he was hounded for
months as they seemed to think that it was his fault that the licensed
mechanic had screwed up! Mind you, they *were* after his blood as this was
after independence and he had caused quite a stir by having twin brownings
fitted to the Bonanza during the Rhodesian Bush War.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
I had such a sh.tty day so far and the image of twin brownings on a Bonanza
did the trick for me. That's exactly what one needed back then. Just to
clean the house up before landing, I guess.
I had another dance with them, which was a bit more serious. I built the
extended airforce portion of the runway at Lanseria and used to fly the 20
minutes from Wonderboom to Lanseria with my Twin Comanche, just for the fun
of it. I could have driven there much quicker and faster, but I am the
eternal sucker for flying. So one day we were laying tarmac till late in the
night, and like a real a.h. I taxied the plane right up to the construction
yard, at the far end of the runway. In the mean time a DC3 taxied up, not
suspecting any aircraft to be parked beyond where he was and so the pilot
smartly shut it down smack in the center of the taxi-way.
After a hard day's work I loaded up three of my workers whom I promised a
flight and taxied out just to find the DC3 abandoned and all facilities
nearby in darkness. So, I taxied into the rough and went around the Dakota.
I mean I am building the runway there, I know my way around the place and I
know there are no obstacles above ground that could hurt my plane. But I
didn't reckon with the obstacles below ground, such as gophers. One sucker
dug his burrow large enough for the Comanche's left main gear to sink deep
enough so that we got stuck. I applied power to see if I could pull it out,
but to no avail. So, I shut down and got out with my flashlight. Saw no
problems, had the pax get underneath the wing and with their backs pick up
the plane while I pushed the other wing and got it out that way. At that
moment a guy in an overall walked up and asked what happened. I explained
the situation and he asked if I would have any objections if he took a look
to see if I had any damage, upon which I said not at all, but I was a bit
irritated with the DC3 pilot's arrogance and wished the guy would rather let
me get going now. But I relented. So, he poked around with the flashlight in
the wheel well, and looked at this and that. After a minute or so he said it
doesn't seem as if I had any damage, we shook hands, and he left.
I took off into the night and as I cycled the gear up after takeoff, the
lights in the cockpit dimmed for a moment and then the gear circuit breaker
popped. Not to test fate, I pushed it back in and dropped the gear and left
them hanging out for the night. Now what? Well I flew back to Wonderboom and
told ATC about my little problem which set him in fright mode so he called
all the students in the circuit and other traffic in the GF back, in case I
would mess up his only runway with lights.
I cut the engines on short final (that was the first time I made a by-choice
dead stick landing) and landed without incident. Now, those folks out there
who are familiar with a Twin Comanche's landing tantrums, will know there is
hardly ever a time that you can kiss the runway with it; it's more often
than not an encounter. But that night I greased her onto the runway like a
172, without power, sounding like a glider, because there was no telling how
much bump was left in the left undercarriage. We rolled to a stop without a
problem, I started the engines and cleared the runway. Now this was an
official incident because of all the people knowing about it.
Next thing was DCA's wheels that went into motion again. It turned out that
the Code states that I could not have flown the Comanche after an incident
unless a licensed airframe engineer had inspected the plane and found it
airworthy. It also turned out that the guy in the overalls that walked up to
me was exactly that. It also turned out that, in spite of my irritation, he
saved me a lot of trouble by walking over and looking over the plane that
night, uninvited.
The Bible says, "Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some
people have entertained angels without knowing it."
Nico
PS. Apparently the force of the moving plane was enough to bend the
undercarriage frame backwards far enough to prevent the wheel from
retracting into the wheel well, which caused the circuit breaker to pop.
Imagine if the force was just a bit less and the wheel could squeeze into
the well, but couldn't come out? Kissing the ground ala the Pope would have
been in order.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander Crash
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Andrew & Bridget Watson
<andrew.bridget@shaw.ca>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk"
> <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
> >
> > The Department of Civil Aviation got to hear about it and the wheels of
> > bureaucracy started its downhill trend, by writing me a letter demanding
> > that I explain myself for putting the wrong fuel in the plane, which is
a
> > violation of the CA code.
> >
> > Nico
> >
> >
>
>
> Now that's so typical of the DCA in all parts of Africa. My Dad had a run
> in with the DCA in Zimbabwe too - same crowd, different country, with his
> Beech V35A. The FBO who did the overhaul on his prop didn't do a proper
job
> and to cut a long story short he had a runaway prop shortly after take-off
> at Bulawayo Main. He shut down and managed a forced landing at Induna
> airfield - no damage to the aircraft or anybody else, but he was hounded
for
> months as they seemed to think that it was his fault that the licensed
> mechanic had screwed up! Mind you, they *were* after his blood as this was
> after independence and he had caused quite a stir by having twin brownings
> fitted to the Bonanza during the Rhodesian Bush War.
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Commander Crash |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget@shaw.ca>
>
> The Bible says, "Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing
some
> people have entertained angels without knowing it."
>
> Nico
>
Isn't that the truth! The Lord moves in mysterious ways indeed. Hope your
day is better tomorrow, Nico.
I forget whether I sent you a picture of Hotel Mike - anyway, if I did,
forget this note, if I didn't, then it is on Matronics photoshare.
Regards,
Andrew.
Message 16
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
Message 17
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
Message 18
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MarcioK@aol.com
Moe, Thunder Airmotive in Sun Valley, CA did a good job on my "big" pumps.
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