Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Re: a couple changes... (Bill Bow)
2. 05:05 AM - Re: a couple changes... (Jim Crunkleton)
3. 08:31 AM - Re: a couple changes... (CloudCraft@aol.com)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: a couple changes... (CloudCraft@aol.com)
5. 08:51 AM - Re: a couple changes... (DAVID LAWSON)
6. 09:18 AM - Calling center (Jim Addington)
7. 09:59 AM - Re: Calling center (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
8. 12:14 PM - Re: Calling center (andrew.bridget@shaw.ca)
9. 01:45 PM - Re: Calling center (Stephen Crow)
10. 03:52 PM - Newfoundland (Tom Fisher)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: a couple changes... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
I'll be listening for you Gordon. I think you will stand out quite nicely.
The only time including HF I have ever used the antiquated term was as a
lone word transmission when I got no answer.
But then I'm not one of the "with you at ....." people either.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: a couple changes...
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 05/15/03 04:05:15 Pacific Daylight Time,
> fighterf@ozemail.com.au writes:
>
>
> > "over" is a bit of a hangover
>
> I have to smile at this. I find "over" is making a come back, at least
here
> in the U.S., where many calls to ATC go unanswered because the controller
is
> "on the land line." (To whom? Wife? Bookie? Divorce attorney?)
>
> I noticed a celebrity guest copilot end his transmission with "over" after
3
> calls to check in at Flight Level and received an immediate response when
> other crews did not.
>
> So I've began an experiment ... and it works! If ATC doesn't respond to
an
> initial call and I hear other crews check in with no response, I'll call
> again and end with "over," and get them to respond straight away.
>
> Something about that antiquated word strikes a primal chord in all of us
who
> have memories (or at least have seen movies) with someone desperately
calling
> Saipan on HF amid static and squeals ...
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: a couple changes... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12@bellsouth.net>
Keith,
I've been using "Over" for years. If, after the third call, and I still get
no response, I give a pause, and then say "Over". The reply is almost always
the same.
"Sorry, I was on the land line, did someone just check in?"
However, have you noticed that when they are calling you, if you are the
slightest bit tardy in your response, (say a two second delay because you've
dropped your mike and are digging for it) they call you two more times with
no delay for a response! My standard modus operandi for those situations is
to reply, "Sorry, I was on the land line".
Crunk
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: a couple changes... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 05/16/03 04:45:57 Pacific Daylight Time,
bowing74@earthlink.net writes:
> then I'm not one of the "with you at ....." people either.
I'm with you on that!
Be sure to note the sarcastic, exasperated tone in my voice when I say,
"Over," used when ATC doesn't answer.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: a couple changes... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 05/16/03 05:05:49 Pacific Daylight Time,
crunk12@bellsouth.net writes:
> My standard modus operandi for those situations is to reply, "Sorry, I was
> on the land line".
>
That's terrific!
Some day I'll have the courage to say, "Thank you for calling (Falcon _____
/ Commander _______ ). Your call is very important to us. No one is in to
take your call right now, but if you leave your Center name, frequency and a
brief message, we'll get back to you as soon as we can. Again, thank you for
calling and wait for the beep."
Have to pick the right Center ... Albuquerque would like it, but I think
Cleveland will just hang up and not leave a message.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: a couple changes... |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "DAVID LAWSON" <david@lawsoninc.net>
Not Albuquerque! This is just the thing for NEW YORK!!
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----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: a couple changes...
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 05/16/03 05:05:49 Pacific Daylight Time,
> crunk12@bellsouth.net writes:
>
>
> > My standard modus operandi for those situations is to reply, "Sorry, I
was
> > on the land line".
> >
>
> That's terrific!
>
> Some day I'll have the courage to say, "Thank you for calling (Falcon
_____
> / Commander _______ ). Your call is very important to us. No one is in
to
> take your call right now, but if you leave your Center name, frequency and
a
> brief message, we'll get back to you as soon as we can. Again, thank you
for
> calling and wait for the beep."
>
> Have to pick the right Center ... Albuquerque would like it, but I think
> Cleveland will just hang up and not leave a message.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
Message 6
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
Fellows be careful jabbing back at center too hard. Remember they are in
control of your arrival and can give you a heading toward never never land
for a long arrival. I have seen this happen too many times. Those
controllers are just human and you have nice ones and you have not so nice
ones. I have used "over" when they would not answer and it does work and it
did work for me.
"Over" is still used with the boating people. Their procedures are out of
the 30's.
Jim Addington
N444BD
----
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Calling center |
--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Gents:
As my voice gets older I have noticed that always starting each transmission
with "and," and the use of words such as tallyho, Roger, wilco, over, and
"with you" work much better than they did 20 years ago, although the fraze
"Roger Wilco, over and out" does not seem to get me any points with approach
when they give me long winded instructions, and advise me to call Hawthorne
tower.
I agree with always being courtious to ATC. Several years ago Ontario (CA)
approach told me to "hold in right turns and expect call back in 20 minutes"
when I called and asked permission to "clip the corner of their ARSA".
Moe Mills
N680RR
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Calling center |
--> Commander-List message posted by: andrew.bridget@shaw.ca
Hmmm, I dug out my old "Radio Telephony for Pilots" manual and read through it
- apparently in 1972 (when it was published - hey wasn't that around the time
Noah built his ark?) "over" was still being used, but only in certain circumstances
- and that appears to be when the pilot is giving an estimate. They also
use "out", "roger", and "wilco". The manual specifically says never to use "over"
and "out" together - i.e. "over and out" as this is a contradiction in terms
- "over" means you are ending your transmission and you expect a reply, whereas
"out" means you are ending your transmission and you do not expect a reply.
The manual has an example of a written flight plan (on a form) but, alas, not an
example of a verbal flight plan - although it has every conceivable other form
of R/T conversation, including the whole Q-Code list.
Direct from the manual:
"Approach Alpha Bravo Charlie airborne Jan Smuts two one climbing to flight level
one zero zero estimating Mike Tango three three over"
And for you, Nico - it is also available in Afrikaans!
"Nadering Alpha Bravo Charlie opgestyg Jan Smuts twee een, klim na vlugvlak een
zero zero, bereken Mike Tango drie drie oor."
Regards,
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Calling center
> --> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
>
> Gents:
>
> As my voice gets older I have noticed that always starting each
> transmission
> with "and," and the use of words such as tallyho, Roger, wilco,
> over, and
> "with you" work much better than they did 20 years ago, although
> the fraze
> "Roger Wilco, over and out" does not seem to get me any points
> with approach
> when they give me long winded instructions, and advise me to call
> Hawthorne
> tower.
>
> I agree with always being courtious to ATC. Several years ago
> Ontario (CA)
> approach told me to "hold in right turns and expect call back in
> 20 minutes"
> when I called and asked permission to "clip the corner of their ARSA".
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Calling center |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Stephen Crow <k4cpx@arrl.net>
Get a scanner and do like the Romans.....Steve C.
================================================
----- Original Message -----
From: andrew.bridget@shaw.ca
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Calling center
--> Commander-List message posted by: andrew.bridget@shaw.ca
Hmmm, I dug out my old "Radio Telephony for Pilots" manual and read through it
- apparently in 1972 (when it was published - hey wasn't that around the time
Noah built his ark?) "over" was still being used, but only in certain circumstances
- and that appears to be when the pilot is giving an estimate. They also
use "out", "roger", and "wilco". The manual specifically says never to use
"over" and "out" together - i.e. "over and out" as this is a contradiction in
terms - "over" means you are ending your transmission and you expect a reply,
whereas "out" means you are ending your transmission and you do not expect a reply.
The manual has an example of a written flight plan (on a form) but, alas, not
an example of a verbal flight plan - although it has every conceivable other
form of R/T conversation, including the whole Q-Code list.
Direct from the manual:
"Approach Alpha Bravo Charlie airborne Jan Smuts two one climbing to flight level
one zero zero estimating Mike Tango three three over"
And for you, Nico - it is also available in Afrikaans!
"Nadering Alpha Bravo Charlie opgestyg Jan Smuts twee een, klim na vlugvlak een
zero zero, bereken Mike Tango drie drie oor."
Regards,
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Date: Friday, May 16, 2003 10:58 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Calling center
> --> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
>
> Gents:
>
> As my voice gets older I have noticed that always starting each
> transmission
> with "and," and the use of words such as tallyho, Roger, wilco,
> over, and
> "with you" work much better than they did 20 years ago, although
> the fraze
> "Roger Wilco, over and out" does not seem to get me any points
> with approach
> when they give me long winded instructions, and advise me to call
> Hawthorne
> tower.
>
> I agree with always being courtious to ATC. Several years ago
> Ontario (CA)
> approach told me to "hold in right turns and expect call back in
> 20 minutes"
> when I called and asked permission to "clip the corner of their ARSA".
>
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Tragedy in Eastern Canada
Gander NFLD (CP) Canada's Worst Air Disaster occurred earlier today when a Cessna
152, a small two-seater plane, crashed into a cemetery early this morning in
central Newfoundland.
Newfie search and rescue workers have recovered 826 bodies so far, and expect that
number to climb as digging continues into the evening.
Tom F.
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