---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/21/03: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:29 AM - Re: pan (Bill Hamilton) 2. 05:56 AM - Re: pan (YOURTCFG@aol.com) 3. 08:19 AM - Re: pan (Bill Bow) 4. 08:41 AM - feathering (Nico van Niekerk) 5. 09:15 AM - Re: feathering (CloudCraft@aol.com) 6. 09:22 AM - Re: feathering (Kerry Johnson) 7. 09:30 AM - Re: feathering (Harry Merritt) 8. 01:23 PM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/20/03 (JETPAUL@aol.com) 9. 01:28 PM - Re: IO-470 Oil Pans (JETPAUL@aol.com) 10. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: IO-470 Oil Pans (Bill Bow) 11. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: IO-470 Oil Pans (Bill Bow) 12. 03:49 PM - AOL Bounce (Stephen Crow) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:35 AM PST US From: Bill Hamilton Subject: Re: Commander-List: pan --> Commander-List message posted by: Bill Hamilton Bill, I know of a pair of same, removed when the aircraft was upgraded to -520's. I will be at the hangar where they are next week, ( all going well) and will enquire. The engines are seriously shot, but at least oil pans don't wear, just maybe corrode. Cheers, Bill Hamilton. At 10:51 AM 20/05/03 -0400, you wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" > >Does anybody have an oil pan for an IO-470-M(found only on the 500A)? > >Spare me the "Call Morris" response. > >bilbo > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:01 AM PST US From: YOURTCFG@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: pan --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com In a message dated 5/21/2003 4:30:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, fighterf@ozemail.com.au writes: > I know of a pair of same, removed when the aircraft was upgraded to -520's. Aint this list a gerat resource!! jb ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:07 AM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: pan --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" We will see. bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: pan > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > In a message dated 5/21/2003 4:30:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, > fighterf@ozemail.com.au writes: > > > I know of a pair of same, removed when the aircraft was upgraded to -520's. > > Aint this list a gerat resource!! jb > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:35 AM PST US From: "Nico van Niekerk" Subject: Commander-List: feathering --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" Is there a reason why some turboprops would feather their props at shutdown, and others not? I always thought it a good idea to prevent the prop from being turned by the wind, which could damage the engine, but that cannot be the only reason (?) since props have to be secured anyway, no? Nico ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:01 AM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: feathering --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 05/21/03 08:41:57 Pacific Daylight Time, nico@cybersuperstore.com writes: > Is there a reason why some turboprops would feather their props at shutdown, > and others not? > We can divide the world of turbo props into 2 camps (with due respect to Rolls Royce, Lycoming, Allison and Astazu) Garrett vs. Pratt & Whitney. Garretts (this week a subsidiary of AlliedSignal) are fixed shaft, axial flow turbines, meaning the whole compressor / power turbine sections hang on a common shaft, turning the gearbox that turns the prop. Air enters the front, mixes w/ fuel, combusts and blows out the back. In order to start these engines, the starter/generator has to spin the whole kit and kaboodle. A "feathered" prop would add more drag. This is why the Garretts have "start locks" that below a certain centrifugal point, allow pins to slide into place and hold the props at a very fine pitch during shut down. (And why Garrett pilots hold the props in reverse during shut down: to allow the start locks to extend and then let the blades come to rest on them) Pratt & Whitney are reverse flow, free turbine engines. Air enters the back, turns 180 degrees, combusts, turns the power turbine and then drives a second turbine -- not connected to the power stage of the engine, driving the prop gear box. (and then gasses exhaust via another 180 degree turn at the front of the engine. So ... on the P&W engines, the prop in NOT connected to anything and thus the starter doesn't care if it's in a high drag setting or not. Note: This could be confusing because as a multi engine pilot you think of feather as a low drag configuration. Yes, it is ... while you're in flight. Think of the engine start process and a feathered prop is lots of drag. As on a piston engine, low oil pressure lets the blades move to feather position on turbo prop engines. P&Ws do this on shut down. Garretts have those start locks to hold the blades from feathering during shut down. A sure way to burn up a Garrett engine is to start it w/ a feathered prop. Did I make this whole thing confusing enough? I can go on .... Wing Commander Gordon ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:05 AM PST US From: "Kerry Johnson" Subject: RE: Commander-List: feathering --> Commander-List message posted by: "Kerry Johnson" If you're talking about Pratt PT-6's compared to Garrett TPE-331's. I don't think it's an option. As I understand it, the PT-6 feathers automatically so the props won't windmill in a breeze. Since the PT-6 is a "free turbine" design, the props would windmill with very little air movement, if they were not feathered. The Garrett's are not a free turbine and have a gearbox, so wind milling isn't the problem it is with the PT-6. Anyone? Correct me if I'm wrong. Kerry -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nico van Niekerk Subject: Commander-List: feathering --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" Is there a reason why some turboprops would feather their props at shutdown, and others not? I always thought it a good idea to prevent the prop from being turned by the wind, which could damage the engine, but that cannot be the only reason (?) since props have to be secured anyway, no? Nico ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:30:41 AM PST US From: "Harry Merritt" Subject: Re: Commander-List: feathering --> Commander-List message posted by: "Harry Merritt" PT 6 Engines Feather and Garett Have Gear Boxes ----- Original Message ----- From: Nico van Niekerk To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: Commander-List: feathering --> Commander-List message posted by: "Nico van Niekerk" Is there a reason why some turboprops would feather their props at shutdown, and others not? I always thought it a good idea to prevent the prop from being turned by the wind, which could damage the engine, but that cannot be the only reason (?) since props have to be secured anyway, no? Nico ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:55 PM PST US From: JETPAUL@aol.com Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 05/20/03 --> Commander-List message posted by: JETPAUL@aol.com In a message dated 5/21/2003 2:55:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, commander-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > Does anybody have an oil pan for an IO-470-M(found only on the 500A)? > And every Beach Bonanza from 57 to about 74 (when it went to a IO-520), And every Beach Baron 55 model (except the C which is a 520, and Every Cessna 310 untill the Q and R models (Which are 520's also I think.) Hey Bill, ohnestley, Call Graham Aircraft Engines and Services in Newnan, GA. He has a big wharehouse of parts piled up from buying out old inventory from guys who are going out of business. 770-252-9669 JetPaul ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:08 PM PST US From: JETPAUL@aol.com Subject: Commander-List: Re: IO-470 Oil Pans --> Commander-List message posted by: JETPAUL@aol.com In a message dated 5/21/2003 2:55:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, commander-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > My soon to be rebuilt engine had a different oil pan that did not > line up with the door. It required lining the nacelle with a garbage bag > to > cut down on the oil mess when changing oil. > WELL ALRIGHTY THEN. Just disregard that last post about all the other stuff being the same, and Call Graham anyway??? YOU NEVER KNOW JetPaul ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:53 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: IO-470 Oil Pans --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Hey Jet, Why is it that when I reply to JETPAUL@aol.com it comes back undeliverable? It does it over and over? bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Commander-List: Re: IO-470 Oil Pans > --> Commander-List message posted by: JETPAUL@aol.com > > In a message dated 5/21/2003 2:55:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > commander-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > > > My soon to be rebuilt engine had a different oil pan that did not > > line up with the door. It required lining the nacelle with a garbage bag > > to > > cut down on the oil mess when changing oil. > > > > WELL ALRIGHTY THEN. Just disregard that last post about all the other stuff > being the same, and Call Graham anyway??? YOU NEVER KNOW > > JetPaul > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:12 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: IO-470 Oil Pans --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Cancel the oil pan search. Zypher already has one coming. $700.00 :>( bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Commander-List: Re: IO-470 Oil Pans > --> Commander-List message posted by: JETPAUL@aol.com > > In a message dated 5/21/2003 2:55:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > commander-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > > > My soon to be rebuilt engine had a different oil pan that did not > > line up with the door. It required lining the nacelle with a garbage bag > > to > > cut down on the oil mess when changing oil. > > > > WELL ALRIGHTY THEN. Just disregard that last post about all the other stuff > being the same, and Call Graham anyway??? YOU NEVER KNOW > > JetPaul > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:07 PM PST US From: Stephen Crow Subject: Commander-List: AOL Bounce --> Commander-List message posted by: Stephen Crow I sent a test to Jetpaul abt 15 mins. ago. So far, no bounce. But Bilbo, it is AOL and they are notorious for E/M bounces! If so want to get only 85% of you E/M....go with AOL.!! Steve. C. ============================================== --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Hey Jet, Why is it that when I reply to JETPAUL@aol.com it comes back undeliverable? It does it over and over? bilbo