Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:29 AM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (TILLMAN333@aol.com)
2. 07:41 AM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (Bill Bow)
3. 08:22 AM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (Jim Addington)
4. 08:55 AM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (CloudCraft@aol.com)
5. 09:28 AM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (Alan Kucheck)
6. 12:12 PM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (Alan Kucheck)
7. 12:25 PM - Piston spares (Barry Collman)
8. 12:25 PM - MMEL's (Barry Collman)
9. 01:21 PM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (CloudCraft@aol.com)
10. 01:33 PM - Re: MMEL's (CloudCraft@aol.com)
11. 04:32 PM - Re: 680E for sale (Craig Lundborg)
12. 04:43 PM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (Jim Addington)
13. 07:38 PM - Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander (Alan Kucheck)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: TILLMAN333@aol.com
Alan:
In my opinion, the wise decision is the 500, or the 500A Colemill- as a
transition twin pilot...
I've owned both.
Currently I own a 500A Colemill.
These airplanes are easy to fix and parts are affordable
156 gal useable fuel is the same number as gear extension speed...156.
I have over 2000# useful load in the 500A.
These numbers are better than most Aztecs. Payload is almost 1100 #'s.
My last annual was $1754. (by a FAA Certified Mechanic).
The Commander Series Aircraft are the biggest bang for the $Buck$.
I'll be flying my family to the Grand Canyon in July with stops in Santa Fe,
etc.
Good Luck,
Gary Tillman
<A HREF="www.flysafeinsurance.com">www.flysafeinsurance.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Finally someone with good sense.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Kucheck" <Alan.Kucheck@borland.com>
Subject: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Alan Kucheck
<Alan.Kucheck@borland.com>
>
> All:
>
> I have been lurking for a while now, having joined TCFG a couple of months
> ago. I am looking for my first Twin Commander and I have to say, this
group
> has been a real education. I have begun to feel that I know a few of you
> already; at least your email personas. ;>)
>
> I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I am still trying to figure out
how
> to convince my wife that it is really essential to have TWO airplanes.
I'm
> instrument rated and current, a low-time guy [about 400 hours], just about
> to get my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole "geared vs.
direct"
> war [I am open to either], I would be interested in any thoughts about
> getting into one's first Commander: particular things to watch out for,
etc.
> Clearly a good pre-buy is essential.
>
> I have been watching the ads, talking to a few owners. There does not
> appear to be a lot of turnover right now - an occasional 500A, always a
few
> B models [though some very high time] and a handful of Shrikes. The
latter
> are clearly outside my budget. The B's seem to command higher prices [I
> suppose that Colemill-converted A's, with HP in the same league as that of
> the Bs command the same prices]. In fact, I have seen one B model [with
> ~13,000 hours TT] advertised for exactly the same price an A that had
10,000
> hours fewer TTAF.
>
> My interest has been piqued recently by a particular 500A. So to you "A"
> drivers out there:
>
> * Are you happy with your decision? Or do you have "B envy", and
> are just biding your time until you can get into a B, S, or maybe
something
> geared?
>
> * Can you tell me what you typically cruise at and what the fuel
> burn is? My missions don't typically involve high density-altitude
> departures; I will not be at max gross most of the time. I love speed as
> much as the next guy but also appreciate fuel economy when it can be had
> without compromising safety.
>
> * Going into SNA I am forever being asked to "keep my speed up"
til
> the FAF and the relatively high max gear extension speed of the Deb
[143Kts]
> helps quite a bit. Can you confirm max gear extension speed on the 500A is
> 156Kts?
>
> * Is the fact that there are so few "original" 500A's out there
> starting to cause any parts availability problems?
>
> My intent is to first acquire the right airplane and then 2 or 3 partners.
I
> am based in Orange County, CA [the Debonair is hangared at SNA], so if
there
> are potential partners out there, let's talk.
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Alan
>
>
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>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>All:
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I have been lurking for a while now, having joined TCFG
a
> couple of months ago. I am looking for my first Twin Commander and I have
> to say, this group has been a real education. I have begun to feel that I
> know a few of you already; at least your email personas. ;)
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I am still
trying to
> figure out how to convince my wife that it is really essential to have TWO
> airplanes. I'm instrument rated and current, a low-time guy [about 400
> hours], just about to get my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole
> "geared vs. direct" war [I am open to either], I would be
> interested in any thoughts about getting into one's first Commander:
> particular things to watch out for, etc. Clearly a good pre-buy is
essential.
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I have been watching the ads, talking to a few owners.
> There does not appear to be a lot of turnover right now - an occasional
> 500A, always a few B models [though some very high time] and a handful of
> Shrikes. The latter are clearly outside my budget. The B's
> seem to command higher prices [I suppose that Colemill-converted A's,
> with HP in the same league as that of the Bs command the same prices]. In
> fact, I have seen one B model [with ~13,000 hours TT] advertised for
exactly
> the same price an A that had 10,000 hours fewer TTAF.
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>My interest has been piqued recently by a particular
> 500A. So to you "A" drivers out there:
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size=2
> face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font
size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
> <span style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Are you happy with your decision? Or do you have
> "B envy", and are just biding your time until you can get into a B,
> S, or maybe something geared?
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size=2
> face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font
size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
> <span style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can you tell me what you typically cruise at and
what
> the fuel burn is? My
> missions don't typically involve high density-altitude departures; I will
> not be at max gross most of the time. I love speed as much as the next guy
but
> also appreciate fuel economy when it can be had without compromising
safety.
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size=2
> face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font
size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
> <span style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Going into SNA I am forever being asked to
> "keep my speed up" til the FAF and the relatively high max gear
> extension speed of the Deb [143Kts] helps quite a bit. Can you confirm max
gear
> extension speed on the 500A is 156Kts?
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size=2
> face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font
size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
> <span style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is the fact that there are so few
> "original" 500A's out there starting to cause any parts
> availability problems?
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>My intent is to first acquire the right airplane and
then 2
> or 3 partners. I am based in <span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Orange County<font
> size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>,
<font
> size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>CA<font
> size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [the
Debonair
> is hangared at SNA], so if there are potential partners out there, let's
> talk.
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>thanks,
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Alan
>
>
> <span style='font-size:
> 12.0pt'>
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
Alan,
I have a 500A that I bought April 1,1981 and have tried to trade it several
times and the wised up that I had a better plane than I was looking at for
my purposes. I have had up to five large people in mine and just reduced the
fuel load to make up the difference. I still have the IO-470's (260 hp)and
usually burn around 22 to 25 gph and cruse at from 175 to 185 mph. The plane
will land short and get out of a short field. I regularly go in out of a
2600 foot grass field. The cockpit is roomy and I had one large passenger
say, it was the only plane he had been in that he was comfortable. Some one
else stated that women could get in and still be a lady. I have often wanted
the larger engines but from a practical stand point for my needs the plane
does all I need. Any thing I can help you with let me know. I guess you
figured out I love my plane.
Jim Addington
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
Kucheck
Subject: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
--> Commander-List message posted by: Alan Kucheck
<Alan.Kucheck@borland.com>
All:
I have been lurking for a while now, having joined TCFG a couple of months
ago. I am looking for my first Twin Commander and I have to say, this group
has been a real education. I have begun to feel that I know a few of you
already; at least your email personas. ;>)
I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I am still trying to figure out how
to convince my wife that it is really essential to have TWO airplanes. I'm
instrument rated and current, a low-time guy [about 400 hours], just about
to get my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole "geared vs. direct"
war [I am open to either], I would be interested in any thoughts about
getting into one's first Commander: particular things to watch out for, etc.
Clearly a good pre-buy is essential.
I have been watching the ads, talking to a few owners. There does not
appear to be a lot of turnover right now - an occasional 500A, always a few
B models [though some very high time] and a handful of Shrikes. The latter
are clearly outside my budget. The B's seem to command higher prices [I
suppose that Colemill-converted A's, with HP in the same league as that of
the Bs command the same prices]. In fact, I have seen one B model [with
~13,000 hours TT] advertised for exactly the same price an A that had 10,000
hours fewer TTAF.
My interest has been piqued recently by a particular 500A. So to you "A"
drivers out there:
* Are you happy with your decision? Or do you have "B envy", and
are just biding your time until you can get into a B, S, or maybe something
geared?
* Can you tell me what you typically cruise at and what the fuel
burn is? My missions don't typically involve high density-altitude
departures; I will not be at max gross most of the time. I love speed as
much as the next guy but also appreciate fuel economy when it can be had
without compromising safety.
* Going into SNA I am forever being asked to "keep my speed up" til
the FAF and the relatively high max gear extension speed of the Deb [143Kts]
helps quite a bit. Can you confirm max gear extension speed on the 500A is
156Kts?
* Is the fact that there are so few "original" 500A's out there
starting to cause any parts availability problems?
My intent is to first acquire the right airplane and then 2 or 3 partners. I
am based in Orange County, CA [the Debonair is hangared at SNA], so if there
are potential partners out there, let's talk.
thanks,
Alan
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<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>All:
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I have been lurking for a while now, having joined TCFG a
couple of months ago. I am looking for my first Twin Commander and I have
to say, this group has been a real education. I have begun to feel that I
know a few of you already; at least your email personas. ;)
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I am still trying
to
figure out how to convince my wife that it is really essential to have TWO
airplanes. I'm instrument rated and current, a low-time guy [about 400
hours], just about to get my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole
"geared vs. direct" war [I am open to either], I would be
interested in any thoughts about getting into one's first Commander:
particular things to watch out for, etc. Clearly a good pre-buy is
essential.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I have been watching the ads, talking to a few owners.
There does not appear to be a lot of turnover right now - an occasional
500A, always a few B models [though some very high time] and a handful of
Shrikes. The latter are clearly outside my budget. The B's
seem to command higher prices [I suppose that Colemill-converted A's,
with HP in the same league as that of the Bs command the same prices]. In
fact, I have seen one B model [with ~13,000 hours TT] advertised for exactly
the same price an A that had 10,000 hours fewer TTAF.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My interest has been piqued recently by a particular
500A. So to you "A" drivers out there:
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Are you happy with your decision? Or do you have
"B envy", and are just biding your time until you can get into a B,
S, or maybe something geared?
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can you tell me what you typically cruise at and
what
the fuel burn is? My
missions don't typically involve high density-altitude departures; I will
not be at max gross most of the time. I love speed as much as the next guy
but
also appreciate fuel economy when it can be had without compromising safety.
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Going into SNA I am forever being asked to
"keep my speed up" til the FAF and the relatively high max gear
extension speed of the Deb [143Kts] helps quite a bit. Can you confirm max
gear
extension speed on the 500A is 156Kts?
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
<span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is the fact that there are so few
"original" 500A's out there starting to cause any parts
availability problems?
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>My intent is to first acquire the right airplane and then
2
or 3 partners. I am based in <span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Orange County<font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, <font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>CA<font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [the
Debonair
is hangared at SNA], so if there are potential partners out there, let's
talk.
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>thanks,
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Alan
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 06/11/03 21:16:39 Pacific Daylight Time,
Alan.Kucheck@borland.com writes:
> Are you happy with your decision? Or do you have "B envy", and
> are just biding your time until you can get into a B, S, or maybe something
> geared?
>
Hello Alan,
The "A" guys are quite happy with their models -- and for good reason.
They've been underappreciated (is that a legal word?) in the market shadow of the
"B."
Since I'm world famous for saying the unsaid, it gets down to engine
preference and stirs up the Lycoming vs. Continental hornet's nest.
I've found that the majority of Commander owners want(ed) a Lycoming powered
model and that's the overcast that hangs over the 500-A.
The 500-B is the darling of the fleet with this high useful load, Lycoming
and no requirement for the recurring spar inspection.
As a Debonair owner, you have an opinion about Continentals and if you've
been pleased with one of those powerplants, chances are you'll be pleased with
a
pair of them. Or three, if you can talk you wife into it. ;-)
System-wise and handling-wise, they're the same as the B, S and U models;
performance-wise the Colemill conversion levels the playing field in most
respects.
By the way, in the few weeks I've been around Commanders, I've observed a
common migration pattern from the Beech 33 and 35 models to Commanders. I would
have expected higher brand loyalty to the TravelAir and Barons. I guess Beech
boys can think for themselves.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 5
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| Subject: | New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Alan Kucheck <Alan.Kucheck@borland.com>
That's a first. Never been accused of that before...
Alan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Bow [mailto:bowing74@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:40 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow"
> --> <bowing74@earthlink.net>
>
> Finally someone with good sense.
>
> bilbo
>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
RE: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
That's a first. Never been accused of that before...
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bow [<A HREF="mailto:bowing74@earthlink.net">mailto:bowing74@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 7:40 AM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
-- Commander-List message posted by: Bill Bow
-- bowing74@earthlink.net
Finally someone with good sense.
bilbo
Message 6
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| Subject: | New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Alan Kucheck <Alan.Kucheck@borland.com>
> As a Debonair owner, you have an opinion about Continentals
> and if you've
> been pleased with one of those powerplants, chances are
> you'll be pleased with a
> pair of them. Or three, if you can talk you wife into it. ;-)
I haven't flown behind similarly-sized Lycomings, so I may not know what I'm
missing, but the IO-470K certainly has been extraordinarily kind to me. It
purrs along as smoothly as an electric motor. We have a JPI montitor and
once properly leaned at cruise the EGTs and CHTs are almost straight across
the gauge, even without GAMIs. Maybe I'm just lucky. I am very careful about
not shock-cooling it, but that is really very little effort. We are now
about 600 SMOH and we have had to do 1 cylinder [it was a judgment call, and
our mechanic is very picky]. The other compressions seem to be getting
better each year.
> By the way, in the few weeks I've been around Commanders,
> I've observed a
> common migration pattern from the Beech 33 and 35 models to
> Commanders. I would
> have expected higher brand loyalty to the TravelAir and
> Barons. I guess Beech
> boys can think for themselves.
Certainly a Baron was the first thought, but I have always been a little
cramped in the Deb [I'm about 6'3"] and going to the Baron that doesn't
change. I like the idea of cruising at 200Kts as one friend does [or claims
to] in his C Baron, but if I have the opportunity to trade 20-25Kts for
several hundred # of payload, I'll take the payload. Besides, it is so hard
to build that multi time when you are going so fast...
Alan
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
RE: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
As a Debonair owner, you have an opinion about Continentals
and if you've
been pleased with one of those powerplants, chances are
you'll be pleased with a
pair of them. Or three, if you can talk you wife into it. ;-)
I haven't flown behind similarly-sized Lycomings, so I may not know what I'm missing,
but the IO-470K certainly has been extraordinarily kind to me. It purrs
along as smoothly as an electric motor. We have a JPI montitor and once properly
leaned at cruise the EGTs and CHTs are almost straight across the gauge, even
without GAMIs. Maybe I'm just lucky. I am very careful about not shock-cooling
it, but that is really very little effort. We are now about 600 SMOH and
we have had to do 1 cylinder [it was a judgment call, and our mechanic is very
picky]. The other compressions seem to be getting better each year.
By the way, in the few weeks I've been around Commanders,
I've observed a
common migration pattern from the Beech 33 and 35 models to
Commanders. I would
have expected higher brand loyalty to the TravelAir and
Barons. I guess Beech
boys can think for themselves.
Certainly a Baron was the first thought, but I have always been a little cramped
in the Deb [I'm about 6'3] and going to the Baron that doesn't change. I like
the idea of cruising at 200Kts as one friend does [or claims to] in his C Baron,
but if I have the opportunity to trade 20-25Kts for several hundred # of
payload, I'll take the payload. Besides, it is so hard to build that multi time
when you are going so fast...
Alan
Message 7
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Guys!
A stock of piston Commander spares is available for sale here in the UK.
If anybody is interested, let me know and I'll put you in touch with the seller.
Best Regards,
Barry
Message 8
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi guys!
A number of Turbo Commander owners here in the UK are needing to create an MMEL
for their 'plane.
Can anybody help?
They need a list of 'M' & 'O' procedures and the Models run from the 690A
through to the 695B.
All suggestions gratefully received!
Very Best Regards,
Barry C.
UK CommanderLand Rep.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 06/12/03 12:13:33 Pacific Daylight Time,
Alan.Kucheck@borland.com writes:
> Besides, it is so hard
> to build that multi time when you are going so fast...
>
Good point!
I had a client about the same dimensions that you have and he went Commander
for the same reason -- 500-A Colemill, in fact.
The harsh truth about the 520 sized Continentals is that they crack.
Continental knows they crack and allows a certain amount of it. (We're talking
cases
here, not cylinders)
Most of the "light case" IO-520s are gone, replaced with the heavy cases, but
the client I mentioned had to do an engine replacement on his Commander.
(1993)
When you buy and then train in your Commander you'll not only get Max
Headroom and higher useful load, but superior systems as well. But you won't
really
appreciate that until you start flying a Commander.
Enough enticement. Start shopping.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
Sir Barry,
If your countrymen don't mind taking advice from the Colonials, go to this
FAA link.
<A HREF="http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/FINAL/smallac/G680TR6/G680TR6.DOC">http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/FINAL/smallac/G680TR6/G680TR6.DOC
If our email refelctor doesn't let HTML links through, the URL is:
http://www.opspecs.com/AFSDATA/MMELs/FINAL/smallac/G680TR6/G680TR6.DOC
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: 680E for sale |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Craig Lundborg" <dltafolk@inreach.com>
Barry,
How much are the repairs and how much is the asking price? I am only
20 miles due east of Stockton and I 'd like to look at it.
Craig Lundborg
dltafolk@inreach.com
www.LundborgLanding.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower@cox.net>
Subject: Commander-List: 680E for sale
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
> Hi again,
>
> Morris is currently doing the annual on my 680E. Unfortunately we have
> confirmed that the landing gear trusses and engine mounts need to be
> replaced. Otherwise it is a nice airplane.
>
> At this point I would like to sell the airplane at a reduced value based
> on the work that needs to be done. When the work is completed it will
> be the most mechanically sound 680E flying (or at least as good as
> JB's:).
>
> If anyone is interested in picking up a 680E with great running, lowish
> mid-time engines, a nice IFR avionics package, and a good interior at a
> reduced price, let me know. All AD's and SB's are current.
>
> Please email me off list or contact me via cell phone @ 949.300.5510
>
> Cheers,
>
> Barry
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
I have to agree with the head room and leg room. I am 5'10" and have to
slide down about two inches to get full rudder through. The systems are
about as simple as you can get. They are either on or off. If you lose and
engine you don't have to think about fuel transfer it is automatic as there
is basicly one tank. The biggest draw back I have is finding a hangar to put
it in. I have had to move several times due to the hangars being sold.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CloudCraft@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 06/12/03 12:13:33 Pacific Daylight Time,
Alan.Kucheck@borland.com writes:
> Besides, it is so hard
> to build that multi time when you are going so fast...
>
Good point!
I had a client about the same dimensions that you have and he went Commander
for the same reason -- 500-A Colemill, in fact.
The harsh truth about the 520 sized Continentals is that they crack.
Continental knows they crack and allows a certain amount of it. (We're
talking cases
here, not cylinders)
Most of the "light case" IO-520s are gone, replaced with the heavy cases,
but
the client I mentioned had to do an engine replacement on his Commander.
(1993)
When you buy and then train in your Commander you'll not only get Max
Headroom and higher useful load, but superior systems as well. But you
won't really
appreciate that until you start flying a Commander.
Enough enticement. Start shopping.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 13
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| Subject: | New to group; Looking for first Commander |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Alan Kucheck <Alan.Kucheck@borland.com>
Jim:
Thanks for the hard numbers - very helpful. About what I would have
expected but nice to get confirmation by "asking the man who owns one."
I'm open to other models [everything doesn't come onto the market all at
once], but I think the A would work just fine for what I want.
Alan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Addington [mailto:jtaddington@charter.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:22 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
> --> <jtaddington@charter.net>
>
> Alan,
>
> I have a 500A that I bought April 1,1981 and have tried to
> trade it several times and the wised up that I had a better
> plane than I was looking at for my purposes. I have had up to
> five large people in mine and just reduced the fuel load to
> make up the difference. I still have the IO-470's (260 hp)and
> usually burn around 22 to 25 gph and cruse at from 175 to 185
> mph. The plane will land short and get out of a short field.
> I regularly go in out of a 2600 foot grass field. The cockpit
> is roomy and I had one large passenger say, it was the only
> plane he had been in that he was comfortable. Some one else
> stated that women could get in and still be a lady. I have
> often wanted the larger engines but from a practical stand
> point for my needs the plane does all I need. Any thing I can
> help you with let me know. I guess you figured out I love my
> plane. Jim Addington N444BD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf
> Of Alan Kucheck
> To: 'commander-list@matronics.com'
> Subject: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Alan Kucheck
> <Alan.Kucheck@borland.com>
>
> All:
>
> I have been lurking for a while now, having joined TCFG a
> couple of months ago. I am looking for my first Twin
> Commander and I have to say, this group has been a real
> education. I have begun to feel that I know a few of you
> already; at least your email personas. ;>)
>
> I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I am still trying to
> figure out how to convince my wife that it is really
> essential to have TWO airplanes. I'm instrument rated and
> current, a low-time guy [about 400 hours], just about to get
> my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole "geared vs.
> direct" war [I am open to either], I would be interested in
> any thoughts about getting into one's first Commander:
> particular things to watch out for, etc. Clearly a good
> pre-buy is essential.
>
> I have been watching the ads, talking to a few owners. There
> does not appear to be a lot of turnover right now - an
> occasional 500A, always a few B models [though some very high
> time] and a handful of Shrikes. The latter are clearly
> outside my budget. The B's seem to command higher prices [I
> suppose that Colemill-converted A's, with HP in the same
> league as that of the Bs command the same prices]. In fact,
> I have seen one B model [with ~13,000 hours TT] advertised
> for exactly the same price an A that had 10,000 hours fewer TTAF.
>
> My interest has been piqued recently by a particular 500A.
> So to you "A" drivers out there:
>
> * Are you happy with your decision? Or do you have
> "B envy", and
> are just biding your time until you can get into a B, S, or
> maybe something geared?
>
> * Can you tell me what you typically cruise at and
> what the fuel
> burn is? My missions don't typically involve high
> density-altitude departures; I will not be at max gross most
> of the time. I love speed as much as the next guy but also
> appreciate fuel economy when it can be had without
> compromising safety.
>
> * Going into SNA I am forever being asked to "keep my
> speed up" til
> the FAF and the relatively high max gear extension speed of
> the Deb [143Kts] helps quite a bit. Can you confirm max gear
> extension speed on the 500A is 156Kts?
>
> * Is the fact that there are so few "original" 500A's
> out there
> starting to cause any parts availability problems?
>
> My intent is to first acquire the right airplane and then 2
> or 3 partners. I am based in Orange County, CA [the Debonair
> is hangared at SNA], so if there are potential partners out
> there, let's talk.
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Alan
>
>
> <style>
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>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>All:
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I have been lurking for a while now,
> having joined TCFG a couple of months ago. I am looking for
> my first Twin Commander and I have to say, this group has
> been a real education. I have begun to feel that I know a few
> of you already; at least your email personas. ;)
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I
> am still trying to figure out how to convince my wife that it
> is really essential to have TWO airplanes. I'm instrument
> rated and current, a low-time guy [about 400 hours], just
> about to get my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole
> "geared vs. direct" war [I am open to either], I would be
> interested in any thoughts about getting into one's first
> Commander: particular things to watch out for, etc. Clearly a
> good pre-buy is essential.
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>I have been watching the ads, talking to a
> few owners. There does not appear to be a lot of turnover
> right now - an occasional 500A, always a few B models [though
> some very high time] and a handful of Shrikes. The latter are
> clearly outside my budget. The B's seem to command higher
> prices [I suppose that Colemill-converted A's, with HP in the
> same league as that of the Bs command the same prices]. In
> fact, I have seen one B model [with ~13,000 hours TT]
> advertised for exactly the same price an A that had 10,000
> hours fewer TTAF.
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>My interest has been piqued recently by a
> particular 500A. So to you "A" drivers out there:
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal
> style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
> face=Symbol><span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New
> Roman"'> <span style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Are you happy with your decision?
> Or do you have "B envy", and are just biding your time until
> you can get into a B, S, or maybe something geared?
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal
> style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
> face=Symbol><span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New
> Roman"'> <span style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Can you tell me what you typically
> cruise at and what the fuel burn is? My missions don't
> typically involve high density-altitude departures; I will
> not be at max gross most of the time. I love speed as much as
> the next guy but also appreciate fuel economy when it can be
> had without compromising safety.
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal
> style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
> face=Symbol><span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New
> Roman"'> <span style='font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Going into SNA I am forever being
> asked to "keep my speed up" til the FAF and the relatively
> high max gear extension speed of the Deb [143Kts] helps quite
> a bit. Can you confirm max gear extension speed on the 500A is 156Kts?
>
>
> <p class=MsoNormal
> style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
> face=Symbol><span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>*<font size=1
> face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New
> Roman"'> <span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Is
> the fact that there are so few "original" 500A's out there
> starting to cause any parts availability problems?
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>My intent is to first acquire the right
> airplane and then 2 or 3 partners. I am based in <span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Orange
> County<span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, <font
> size=2 face=Arial><span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>CA<font
> size=2 face=Arial><span
> style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> [the Debonair is
> hangared at SNA], so if there are potential partners out
> there, let's talk.
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>thanks,
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Alan
>
>
> <span style='font-size:
> 12.0pt'>
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
RE: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
Jim:
Thanks for the hard numbers - very helpful. About what I would have expected but
nice to get confirmation by asking the man who owns one.
I'm open to other models [everything doesn't come onto the market all at once],
but I think the A would work just fine for what I want.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Addington [<A HREF"mailto:jtaddington@charter.net">mailto:jtaddington@charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:22 AM
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
-- Commander-List message posted by: Jim Addington
-- jtaddington@charter.net
Alan,
I have a 500A that I bought April 1,1981 and have tried to
trade it several times and the wised up that I had a better
plane than I was looking at for my purposes. I have had up to
five large people in mine and just reduced the fuel load to
make up the difference. I still have the IO-470's (260 hp)and
usually burn around 22 to 25 gph and cruse at from 175 to 185
mph. The plane will land short and get out of a short field.
I regularly go in out of a 2600 foot grass field. The cockpit
is roomy and I had one large passenger say, it was the only
plane he had been in that he was comfortable. Some one else
stated that women could get in and still be a lady. I have
often wanted the larger engines but from a practical stand
point for my needs the plane does all I need. Any thing I can
help you with let me know. I guess you figured out I love my
plane. Jim Addington N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[<A HREF"mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com">mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf
Of Alan Kucheck
To: 'commander-list@matronics.com'
Subject: Commander-List: New to group; Looking for first Commander
-- Commander-List message posted by: Alan Kucheck
Alan.Kucheck@borland.com
All:
I have been lurking for a while now, having joined TCFG a
couple of months ago. I am looking for my first Twin
Commander and I have to say, this group has been a real
education. I have begun to feel that I know a few of you
already; at least your email personas. ;)
I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I am still trying to
figure out how to convince my wife that it is really
essential to have TWO airplanes. I'm instrument rated and
current, a low-time guy [about 400 hours], just about to get
my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole geared vs.
direct war [I am open to either], I would be interested in
any thoughts about getting into one's first Commander:
particular things to watch out for, etc. Clearly a good
pre-buy is essential.
I have been watching the ads, talking to a few owners. There
does not appear to be a lot of turnover right now - an
occasional 500A, always a few B models [though some very high
time] and a handful of Shrikes. The latter are clearly
outside my budget. The B's seem to command higher prices [I
suppose that Colemill-converted A's, with HP in the same
league as that of the Bs command the same prices]. In fact,
I have seen one B model [with ~13,000 hours TT] advertised
for exactly the same price an A that had 10,000 hours fewer TTAF.
My interest has been piqued recently by a particular 500A.
So to you A drivers out there:
* Are you happy with your decision? Or do you have
B envy, and
are just biding your time until you can get into a B, S, or
maybe something geared?
* Can you tell me what you typically cruise at and
what the fuel
burn is? My missions don't typically involve high
density-altitude departures; I will not be at max gross most
of the time. I love speed as much as the next guy but also
appreciate fuel economy when it can be had without
compromising safety.
* Going into SNA I am forever being asked to keep my
speed up til
the FAF and the relatively high max gear extension speed of
the Deb [143Kts] helps quite a bit. Can you confirm max gear
extension speed on the 500A is 156Kts?
* Is the fact that there are so few original 500A's
out there
starting to cause any parts availability problems?
My intent is to first acquire the right airplane and then 2
or 3 partners. I am based in Orange County, CA [the Debonair
is hangared at SNA], so if there are potential partners out
there, let's talk.
thanks,
Alan
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span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'All:
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'I have been lurking for a while now,
having joined TCFG a couple of months ago. I am looking for
my first Twin Commander and I have to say, this group has
been a real education. I have begun to feel that I know a few
of you already; at least your email personas. ;)
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'I currently fly a 1964 Beech Debonair. I
am still trying to figure out how to convince my wife that it
is really essential to have TWO airplanes. I'm instrument
rated and current, a low-time guy [about 400 hours], just
about to get my multi. Without wanting to get into the whole
geared vs. direct war [I am open to either], I would be
interested in any thoughts about getting into one's first
Commander: particular things to watch out for, etc. Clearly a
good pre-buy is essential.
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'I have been watching the ads, talking to a
few owners. There does not appear to be a lot of turnover
right now - an occasional 500A, always a few B models [though
some very high time] and a handful of Shrikes. The latter are
clearly outside my budget. The B's seem to command higher
prices [I suppose that Colemill-converted A's, with HP in the
same league as that of the Bs command the same prices]. In
fact, I have seen one B model [with ~13,000 hours TT]
advertised for exactly the same price an A that had 10,000
hours fewer TTAF.
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'My interest has been piqued recently by a
particular 500A. So to you A drivers out there:
p classMsoNormal
style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'font size2
faceSymbolspan
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'*font size1
faceTimes New Romanspan style'font:7.0pt Times New
Roman' span style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'Are you happy with your decision?
Or do you have B envy, and are just biding your time until
you can get into a B, S, or maybe something geared?
p classMsoNormal
style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'font size2
faceSymbolspan
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'*font size1
faceTimes New Romanspan style'font:7.0pt Times New
Roman' span style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'Can you tell me what you typically
cruise at and what the fuel burn is? My missions don't
typically involve high density-altitude departures; I will
not be at max gross most of the time. I love speed as much as
the next guy but also appreciate fuel economy when it can be
had without compromising safety.
p classMsoNormal
style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'font size2
faceSymbolspan
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'*font size1
faceTimes New Romanspan style'font:7.0pt Times New
Roman' span style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'Going into SNA I am forever being
asked to keep my speed up til the FAF and the relatively
high max gear extension speed of the Deb [143Kts] helps quite
a bit. Can you confirm max gear extension speed on the 500A is 156Kts?
p classMsoNormal
style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'font size2
faceSymbolspan
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'*font size1
faceTimes New Romanspan style'font:7.0pt Times New
Roman' span style'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial'Is
the fact that there are so few original 500A's out there
starting to cause any parts availability problems?
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'My intent is to first acquire the right
airplane and then 2 or 3 partners. I am based in span
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'Orange
Countyfont size2 faceArialspan
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial', font
size2 faceArialspan
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'CAfont
size2 faceArialspan
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial' [the Debonair is
hangared at SNA], so if there are potential partners out
there, let's talk.
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'thanks,
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'Alan
span style'font-size:
12.0pt'
span style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'
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