Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (Jim Crunkleton)
2. 04:28 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (Jim Crunkleton)
3. 06:13 AM - Attn: K-Mart shoppers (Bill Bow)
4. 07:04 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
5. 07:50 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (Jim Crunkleton)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
7. 08:19 AM - Re: Attn: K-Mart shoppers (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
8. 08:22 AM - Re: Attn: K-Mart shoppers (Tom Fisher)
9. 09:29 AM - Wise Choice (CloudCraft@aol.com)
10. 09:39 AM - Re: Wise Choice ()
11. 09:50 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (John Vormbaum)
12. 10:39 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (MOEMILLS@aol.com)
13. 11:06 AM - Why all the negative Garrett talk? (Kerry Johnson)
14. 11:14 AM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (Jim Crunkleton)
15. 11:32 AM - Re: Why all the negative Garrett talk? (Tom Bijou)
16. 12:16 PM - Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION (css nico)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12@bellsouth.net>
Moe,
The mixture hasn't really changed, i.e., your still getting the same amount
of fuel you would normally get from the injector.The problem is that you're
not getting the normal amount of air, hence the black smoke from the
incomplete combustion.
The air is delivered to the cylinder from the intake pipes-the fuel is
delivered to the cylinder from the fuel divider block via the injector lines
to each cylinder.
We sucked a valve in the 520 (JET PAUL was flying) and it also had black
smoke coming out, but that was the result of incomplete combustion due to a
missing valve.
Trust this will make some sense of the matter.
Crunk
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12@bellsouth.net>
Moe,
I forgot to mention that with the carburated 520 we were getting a large
amount of oil into the cylinder as well.
Crunk
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Attn: K-Mart shoppers |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
An amazing(amazing to me) thing happened 2 weeks ago.
When the hydraulic switch that controls the aux pump crapped, out squirting
hydraulic fluid all over the place, I set out to find one. A serviceable
one would be fine since they are $680. each. Nobody on this list new where
there was one so I did a search on Google of "P10M-47" not expecting any
results. I was almost right. There was one hit, the commanderlist. It
refered to a list placed here in January by Tom Fisher for Cham Gill.
Thanks to Tom Fisher putting that info out, I was able to get a NOS switch
at a great price. His buddy Cham even Fed Exed it to me(it was cheaper
:>)).
I wanted to puplicly thank Tom, as he worked a great deal to get me in
contact with Cham and thank Cham who is not a list member yet.
Tom, people like you and Cham make lists like this work.
Thanks, I'll shut up now.
bilbo
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Dear Crunk,
Thank you very much for the reply, however, please keep in mind that the IGSO
540 B1A engine has only one large injector nozzle which sprays directly into
the blades of the mechanically driven supercharger. I experienced the type of
problem that you describe quite frequently when I was running my blown fuel
dragster a few years ago. One plugged nozzle will raise the line pressure to
all of the other nozzles. Problem is this thing has only one nozzle.
Any more ideas?
Best regards,
Moe
N680RR
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12@bellsouth.net>
Moe,
Interesting! Since you only have the one nozzle could it be that the
injector is still metering fuel/air at a mix for six cylinders into five
cylinders thus causing incomplete combustion?
Crunk
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/2003 7:51:13 AM Pacific Standard Time,
crunk12@bellsouth.net writes:
> Moe,
> Interesting! Since you only have the one nozzle could it be that the
> injector is still metering fuel/air at a mix for six cylinders into five
> cylinders thus causing incomplete combustion?
> Crunk
CRUNK, GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU!! Are you planing to be at the flyin?? It is
the best ever with lots of new faces. There is scheduled to be another 560F
in attendance. How is life?? How is Milt?? jb
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Attn: K-Mart shoppers |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/2003 6:13:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bowing74@earthlink.net writes:
> Thanks, I'll shut up now.
> bilbo
Thanks Bill. Great report!! jb
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Attn: K-Mart shoppers |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Thanks Bill, Commander lovers unite!
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Subject: Commander-List: Attn: K-Mart shoppers
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
>
> An amazing(amazing to me) thing happened 2 weeks ago.
>
> When the hydraulic switch that controls the aux pump crapped, out
squirting
> hydraulic fluid all over the place, I set out to find one. A serviceable
> one would be fine since they are $680. each. Nobody on this list new
where
> there was one so I did a search on Google of "P10M-47" not expecting any
> results. I was almost right. There was one hit, the commanderlist. It
> refered to a list placed here in January by Tom Fisher for Cham Gill.
>
> Thanks to Tom Fisher putting that info out, I was able to get a NOS switch
> at a great price. His buddy Cham even Fed Exed it to me(it was cheaper
> :>)).
>
> I wanted to puplicly thank Tom, as he worked a great deal to get me in
> contact with Cham and thank Cham who is not a list member yet.
>
> Tom, people like you and Cham make lists like this work.
>
> Thanks, I'll shut up now.
> bilbo
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
Hey guys, I think you'll get a kick out of this ...
I mentioned that I can't attend the Fly-In because I'm nurturing a new pilot
into the Falcon 20.
We decided to hire a full time copilot after using contract crews for several
months. We had a pageant, interviewing 4 applicants in one day. (Not at the
same time) I did the interviewing as the chief pilot "monitored."
One applicant had a handful of both King Air 200 and Turbo Commander time on
his resume.
So I burrowed into this detail and asked specific questions about the BE 200
and the Commander. It was very apparent he only had a few hours as a "guest
copilot" in these types and I understood his belief that we were hunting for
someone with significant turbine time -- which is not true.
Then I asked him The Question: "So which did you prefer? The King Air or
the Turbo Commander?"
He began extolling the virtues of the King Air ... and then stopped, looked
down and almost apologetically said, "The King Air is great, but I really liked
the Turbo Commander better."
The chief pilot exhaled a pent up breath with a whistle and said, "You lucked
out on that answer."
He was a bit confused. I simply said, "You have chosen wisely" and went on
with the interview.
And yes, he was the one we hired.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Commander-List message posted by: <service@commander-aero.com>
Sorry to here you're not going to be here Keith.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
CloudCraft@aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Wise Choice
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
Hey guys, I think you'll get a kick out of this ...
I mentioned that I can't attend the Fly-In because I'm nurturing a new pilot
into the Falcon 20.
We decided to hire a full time copilot after using contract crews for
several
months. We had a pageant, interviewing 4 applicants in one day. (Not at
the
same time) I did the interviewing as the chief pilot "monitored."
One applicant had a handful of both King Air 200 and Turbo Commander time on
his resume.
So I burrowed into this detail and asked specific questions about the BE 200
and the Commander. It was very apparent he only had a few hours as a
"guest
copilot" in these types and I understood his belief that we were hunting for
someone with significant turbine time -- which is not true.
Then I asked him The Question: "So which did you prefer? The King Air or
the Turbo Commander?"
He began extolling the virtues of the King Air ... and then stopped, looked
down and almost apologetically said, "The King Air is great, but I really
liked
the Turbo Commander better."
The chief pilot exhaled a pent up breath with a whistle and said, "You
lucked
out on that answer."
He was a bit confused. I simply said, "You have chosen wisely" and went on
with the interview.
And yes, he was the one we hired.
Wing Commander Gordon
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Except that on an IGSO, the injection is single-point, in the supercharger,
right? There are no divider lines? So I would guess that the fuel becomes
about 16% richer, which doesn't seem like enough to really get the black
smoke going....
/J
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton"
<crunk12@bellsouth.net>
>
> Moe,
> The mixture hasn't really changed, i.e., your still getting the same
amount
> of fuel you would normally get from the injector.The problem is that
you're
> not getting the normal amount of air, hence the black smoke from the
> incomplete combustion.
> The air is delivered to the cylinder from the intake pipes-the fuel is
> delivered to the cylinder from the fuel divider block via the injector
lines
> to each cylinder.
> We sucked a valve in the 520 (JET PAUL was flying) and it also had black
> smoke coming out, but that was the result of incomplete combustion due to
a
> missing valve.
> Trust this will make some sense of the matter.
> Crunk
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: MOEMILLS@aol.com
Crunk,
I am having a hard time understanding why the mixture would become richer,
because the blower is mechanically driven. If one intake valve is not opening
it will take neither gas or air, (the fuel is atomized in the hair drier)
therefore, it would seem that the air/fuel ratio would remain approximately the
same.
Moe
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Why all the negative Garrett talk? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry@kvelectric.com>
We are looking into buying a turboprop for a client and are running into
all sorts of negative comments from the local A&P and IA mechanics, when
I mention a Turbo Commander. They all claim that even the -10 engines
are a real pain and always breaking. At the same time these folks extol
the virtues of the PT-6 as found in a BE 200. Is this just ignorance on
their part? They are taking care of a very nice Conquest II and a King
Air 200 that is used for Life Flight, so they should know both power
plants very well.
I have known for quite some time that the TPE 331 can give a sloppy
pilot trouble, but there seems to be more to it than this for these
mechanics to be so slanted towards the PT-6. Any idea what's up here?
Kerry
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12@bellsouth.net>
Moe,
Not richer, just incomplete combustion due to the lack of 1/6 of the fire.
Crunk
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Why all the negative Garrett talk? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Bijou" <Tom@bhmassociates.com>
Kerry
I own 3 commanders a 695A a 695B and a 840 (it is a long story!). I have
also owned my share of PT6 powered aircraft over the years. I love the 331.
I must say that all the statistics support that if you are only going to
have one engine, you would like it to be a pt6, but I have never had a 331
problem that would cause me major concern or resulted in an in-flight
shutdown.
The things I like best are the lower fuel burn, ability to predict costs of
HSI and overhauls, the long TBO interval, the instant availability of power
and the simplicity of the engine. The bad things are that a bad shop can
really misrig the engine and make the aircraft a handful to fly ... I never
leave for a post maint. test flight with only one pilot in the aircraft.
Some people also complain about the noise, but they are mostly on the ramp!
Tom Bijou
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kerry
Johnson
Subject: Commander-List: Why all the negative Garrett talk?
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Kerry Johnson" <kerry@kvelectric.com>
We are looking into buying a turboprop for a client and are running into
all sorts of negative comments from the local A&P and IA mechanics, when
I mention a Turbo Commander. They all claim that even the -10 engines
are a real pain and always breaking. At the same time these folks extol
the virtues of the PT-6 as found in a BE 200. Is this just ignorance on
their part? They are taking care of a very nice Conquest II and a King
Air 200 that is used for Life Flight, so they should know both power
plants very well.
I have known for quite some time that the TPE 331 can give a sloppy
pilot trouble, but there seems to be more to it than this for these
mechanics to be so slanted towards the PT-6. Any idea what's up here?
Kerry
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
The loss of an inlet valve would cause the combusted air to be exhausted on
the last good cycle and after that the cylinder would operate with two
vacuum strokes on each cycle, sucking at whatever would leak into the
cylinder. After inlet valve failure, as soon as the exhaust valve opens, the
piston is at bdc and the vacuum will suck whatever is in the exhaust
manifold back into the cylinder. Since the exhaust manifold contains
incompletely combusted gases from the other cylinders (if there is a common
exhaust manifold, otherwise it will suck the gases from the previous
combustion back into the cylinder) the dead cylinder will fill up with this
mixture of very hot gas pumping it directly back into the exhaust manifold
during the exhaust stroke. After that the exhaust valve would close at tdc
and the cylinder would go back into another "vacuum" (inlet) stroke and
proceed to the compression stroke starting with a vacuum. At ignition,
perhaps very little will happen since there is no fuel nor any compression
and the power stroke will also be a vacuum stroke. I cannot imagine what
exactly would cause the black smoke unless some of the fuel accumulating
behind the inlet valve would be sucked in through imperfect seating of the
inlet valve and mess up the business real well. It is also possible that the
suction of the cylinder could actually suck the inlet valve open just enough
to let liquefied fuel into the cylinder. If non-vaporized fuel is mixed with
the hot exhaust gases sucked in from the exhaust manifold, it could cause a
secondary ignition inside the exhaust manifold, which will definitely cause
black smoke. That could make toast of exhaust packings and 'O' rings if the
condition is allowed to persist.
Not an answer, just a couple of thoughts.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Crunkleton" <crunk12@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IGSO 540 B1A QUESTION
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Crunkleton"
<crunk12@bellsouth.net>
>
> Moe,
> Not richer, just incomplete combustion due to the lack of 1/6 of the fire.
> Crunk
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|