---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/22/03: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 11:57 AM - Re: Checklists anyone? (css nico) 2. 12:05 PM - Re: Maputo (css nico) 3. 12:07 PM - Re: Checklists anyone? (Robert Sather) 4. 12:52 PM - Re: Checklists anyone? (css nico) 5. 01:51 PM - Re: Checklists anyone? (Robert Sather) 6. 04:03 PM - Re: Checklists anyone? (Ricardo A. Otaola) 7. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Maputo (W J R HAMILTON) 8. 05:32 PM - Re: Re: Maputo (css nico) 9. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Maputo (Bill Bow) 10. 06:58 PM - Re: Checklists anyone? (Bill Bow) 11. 08:21 PM - Re: Re: Maputo (Andrew & Bridget Watson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 11:57:12 AM PST US From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" There are strong arguments for checklists by pros who have been practicing their craft safely for a long time and amateurs like me will do good to heed their advice. However, checklists appear to be only part of the story. Checklists, yes, but checklists alone, no way. And it is not as if the pros proposed that checklists are alone the cure for all fingertroubles, but they preached to me and folks who would strap a plane to their butts and blast off having followed some acronym and scanning the instrument panel from left to right touching each instrument and switch in an attempt to remain within the reality realm. Thanks Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > In a message dated 10/21/2003 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, > tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca writes: > > > Absolutely emergency drills in a single pilot environment have to be > > conducted from memory > > How about a "memory checklist" I use C-I-G-A-R T-I-P. As I ferry or write > about many different airplanes, many (most) don't have a reliable written > checklist. I believe firmly that a memory checklist is essential to safety. > Emergencies require it. There are also the items that are not currently found on > the Commander written checklist, such as turning off the aux hyd pump after TO > or checking the aux fuel valve operation prior to engine start. These items > are not found on the written checklist, but extremely important in the real > world. I have chosen to memorize them. There are certainly airplanes that are > to complex to commit their operation to memory, but Commander is not one of > them. Just my thoughts. jb > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:30 PM PST US From: "css nico" Subject: Commander-List: Re: Maputo --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" Well as they say in the classics, don't hold your breath. Africa is not much better today, Bill, they are trying to practice western standards in business, but as long as they believe that the rest of the world owes them a living, they will take and take and take attributing their misguided approach as their right to justice. It's a miracle that your planes stayed aloft to get the job done. I once waited at Maputo for taxi clearance and a 737 taxied past (Moz air, of course) with a piece of rubber flapping off one of the wheels of the main undercarriage. I called the tower to let the pilot know about the situation but the pilot reported that he knew about the tread coming off the one wheel and that it's still OK. He took off with pieces of rubber flying in all directions. Glad I sat in my 500 and not in that ship. Thanks Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Bow To: css nico Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:44 AM Subject: Re: Maputo I spent 30 days flying for Caladonian Airlines Inc. of Beruit, under contract to Air Tanzania. We were hired to start service from Dar es Salem to London in a Boeing 720. Instead we were flying troops, who had been in Rodesia, from Biera to Maputo. I'm still waiting for my paycheck from that "job" bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: css nico To: Bill Bow Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Maputo Yeah, huge prawns and Portuguese beer, I think it was Cocos or something. Someone remembers? We started flying in supplies to Inhaca soon after 1980. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Bow To: nico@cybersuperstore.com Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:02 PM Subject: Maputo Nico, I hadn't heard/seen that name in more than twenty years. I spent Christmas 1980 in Maputo. It was certainly a Christmas to remember. Bilbo ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:05 PM PST US From: "Robert Sather" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Sather" The point being????? ----- Original Message ----- From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > There are strong arguments for checklists by pros who have been practicing > their craft safely for a long time and amateurs like me will do good to heed > their advice. However, checklists appear to be only part of the story. > Checklists, yes, but checklists alone, no way. And it is not as if the pros > proposed that checklists are alone the cure for all fingertroubles, but they > preached to me and folks who would strap a plane to their butts and blast > off having followed some acronym and scanning the instrument panel from left > to right touching each instrument and switch in an attempt to remain within > the reality realm. > Thanks > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2003 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca writes: > > > > > Absolutely emergency drills in a single pilot environment have to be > > > conducted from memory > > > > How about a "memory checklist" I use C-I-G-A-R T-I-P. As I ferry or > write > > about many different airplanes, many (most) don't have a reliable written > > checklist. I believe firmly that a memory checklist is essential to > safety. > > Emergencies require it. There are also the items that are not currently > found on > > the Commander written checklist, such as turning off the aux hyd pump > after TO > > or checking the aux fuel valve operation prior to engine start. These > items > > are not found on the written checklist, but extremely important in the > real > > world. I have chosen to memorize them. There are certainly airplanes > that are > > to complex to commit their operation to memory, but Commander is not one > of > > them. Just my thoughts. jb > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:03 PM PST US From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" Oh, we are just talking about the practice of checklists versus memorized drills. Some folks adhere more rigorously to checklists than others. I was a total non-checklist pilot but has since converted, but the extent to which one ought to follow a checklist is the question. Obviously checklists are good verifiers, but the pilot should be able to complete all phases of the flight from memory. Otherwise, sorry, there's no point. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Sather" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Sather" > > > The point being????? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "css nico" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > > > > There are strong arguments for checklists by pros who have been practicing > > their craft safely for a long time and amateurs like me will do good to > heed > > their advice. However, checklists appear to be only part of the story. > > Checklists, yes, but checklists alone, no way. And it is not as if the > pros > > proposed that checklists are alone the cure for all fingertroubles, but > they > > preached to me and folks who would strap a plane to their butts and blast > > off having followed some acronym and scanning the instrument panel from > left > > to right touching each instrument and switch in an attempt to remain > within > > the reality realm. > > Thanks > > Nico > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2003 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca writes: > > > > > > > Absolutely emergency drills in a single pilot environment have to be > > > > conducted from memory > > > > > > How about a "memory checklist" I use C-I-G-A-R T-I-P. As I ferry or > > write > > > about many different airplanes, many (most) don't have a reliable > written > > > checklist. I believe firmly that a memory checklist is essential to > > safety. > > > Emergencies require it. There are also the items that are not currently > > found on > > > the Commander written checklist, such as turning off the aux hyd pump > > after TO > > > or checking the aux fuel valve operation prior to engine start. These > > items > > > are not found on the written checklist, but extremely important in the > > real > > > world. I have chosen to memorize them. There are certainly airplanes > > that are > > > to complex to commit their operation to memory, but Commander is not one > > of > > > them. Just my thoughts. jb > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:46 PM PST US From: "Robert Sather" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Sather" I agree. I just got lost in the communication. Seems like more that a few items and I forget. So I need a check list on everything I do anymore. bobby ----- Original Message ----- From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > Oh, we are just talking about the practice of checklists versus memorized > drills. Some folks adhere more rigorously to checklists than others. I was a > total non-checklist pilot but has since converted, but the extent to which > one ought to follow a checklist is the question. Obviously checklists are > good verifiers, but the pilot should be able to complete all phases of the > flight from memory. > Otherwise, sorry, there's no point. > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Sather" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Sather" > > > > > > The point being????? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "css nico" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > > > > > > > There are strong arguments for checklists by pros who have been > practicing > > > their craft safely for a long time and amateurs like me will do good to > > heed > > > their advice. However, checklists appear to be only part of the story. > > > Checklists, yes, but checklists alone, no way. And it is not as if the > > pros > > > proposed that checklists are alone the cure for all fingertroubles, but > > they > > > preached to me and folks who would strap a plane to their butts and > blast > > > off having followed some acronym and scanning the instrument panel from > > left > > > to right touching each instrument and switch in an attempt to remain > > within > > > the reality realm. > > > Thanks > > > Nico > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2003 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca writes: > > > > > > > > > Absolutely emergency drills in a single pilot environment have to be > > > > > conducted from memory > > > > > > > > How about a "memory checklist" I use C-I-G-A-R T-I-P. As I ferry or > > > write > > > > about many different airplanes, many (most) don't have a reliable > > written > > > > checklist. I believe firmly that a memory checklist is essential to > > > safety. > > > > Emergencies require it. There are also the items that are not > currently > > > found on > > > > the Commander written checklist, such as turning off the aux hyd pump > > > after TO > > > > or checking the aux fuel valve operation prior to engine start. These > > > items > > > > are not found on the written checklist, but extremely important in the > > > real > > > > world. I have chosen to memorize them. There are certainly airplanes > > > that are > > > > to complex to commit their operation to memory, but Commander is not > one > > > of > > > > them. Just my thoughts. jb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:36 PM PST US From: "Ricardo A. Otaola" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? --> Commander-List message posted by: "Ricardo A. Otaola" My penny's worth of advice: My instructor once asked me how many times I would go to the bathroom to take a leak a day? Well, I said anything between 5-10 times a day depending on the drinking. Then he says, That means you would do this at least 5 times a day per thrity days that would mean about 150. Of those times ,how many times have you forgotten to "Zip Up". ??? Think about it and read your checklist!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > Oh, we are just talking about the practice of checklists versus memorized > drills. Some folks adhere more rigorously to checklists than others. I was a > total non-checklist pilot but has since converted, but the extent to which > one ought to follow a checklist is the question. Obviously checklists are > good verifiers, but the pilot should be able to complete all phases of the > flight from memory. > Otherwise, sorry, there's no point. > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Sather" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Sather" > > > > > > The point being????? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "css nico" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > > > > > > > There are strong arguments for checklists by pros who have been > practicing > > > their craft safely for a long time and amateurs like me will do good to > > heed > > > their advice. However, checklists appear to be only part of the story. > > > Checklists, yes, but checklists alone, no way. And it is not as if the > > pros > > > proposed that checklists are alone the cure for all fingertroubles, but > > they > > > preached to me and folks who would strap a plane to their butts and > blast > > > off having followed some acronym and scanning the instrument panel from > > left > > > to right touching each instrument and switch in an attempt to remain > > within > > > the reality realm. > > > Thanks > > > Nico > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2003 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca writes: > > > > > > > > > Absolutely emergency drills in a single pilot environment have to be > > > > > conducted from memory > > > > > > > > How about a "memory checklist" I use C-I-G-A-R T-I-P. As I ferry or > > > write > > > > about many different airplanes, many (most) don't have a reliable > > written > > > > checklist. I believe firmly that a memory checklist is essential to > > > safety. > > > > Emergencies require it. There are also the items that are not > currently > > > found on > > > > the Commander written checklist, such as turning off the aux hyd pump > > > after TO > > > > or checking the aux fuel valve operation prior to engine start. These > > > items > > > > are not found on the written checklist, but extremely important in the > > > real > > > > world. I have chosen to memorize them. There are certainly airplanes > > > that are > > > > to complex to commit their operation to memory, but Commander is not > one > > > of > > > > them. Just my thoughts. jb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:52 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Maputo --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON All, Having operated a leased B707-338C, ex Qantas, for DETA out of Maputo, many years ago, sounds like the only thing that has changed is that it has got worse. At least we controlled our own maintenance. No problems with ATC, there wasn't any. I remember doing a route qual. on a chap who hadn't looked too closely at the charts, wanted to know where the VOR/DME frequencies were shown. The answer, "What VOR/DME , and by the way, the NDB is usually off, and don't ask about NOTAMs, there aren't any" elicited a rather funny reaction. Having top look out the window in anything bigger than a C-172 was obviously a new and unwelcome experience. Re the ATC,you'r not going to have a mid air with yourself, and the only other traffic in those days were the local eagles and the occasional high flying scrub turkey, and you should see what they do to a JT3B-3D. Cheers, Bill Hamilton. At 12:11 10/22/03 -0700, css nico wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > >Well as they say in the classics, don't hold your breath. Africa is not >much better today, Bill, they are trying to practice western standards in >business, but as long as they believe that the rest of the world owes them >a living, they will take and take and take attributing their misguided >approach as their right to justice. >It's a miracle that your planes stayed aloft to get the job done. I once >waited at Maputo for taxi clearance and a 737 taxied past (Moz air, of >course) with a piece of rubber flapping off one of the wheels of the main >undercarriage. I called the tower to let the pilot know about the >situation but the pilot reported that he knew about the tread coming off >the one wheel and that it's still OK. He took off with pieces of rubber >flying in all directions. Glad I sat in my 500 and not in that ship. >Thanks >Nico > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Bow > To: css nico > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:44 AM > Subject: Re: Maputo > > > I spent 30 days flying for Caladonian Airlines Inc. of Beruit, under > contract to Air Tanzania. We were hired to start service from Dar es > Salem to London in a Boeing 720. Instead we were flying troops, who had > been in Rodesia, from Biera to Maputo. I'm still waiting for my paycheck > from that "job" > > bilbo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: css nico > To: Bill Bow > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: Maputo > > > Yeah, huge prawns and Portuguese beer, I think it was Cocos or > something. Someone remembers? We started flying in supplies to Inhaca > soon after 1980. > Nico > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Bow > To: nico@cybersuperstore.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:02 PM > Subject: Maputo > > > Nico, > > I hadn't heard/seen that name in more than twenty years. I spent > Christmas 1980 in Maputo. It was certainly a Christmas to remember. > > Bilbo > > COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note. The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton, Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is: will remain valid for about three months. All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about three months, the date will be notified. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:33 PM PST US From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Maputo --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" Man, does this bring back memories. No wonder folks who have never flown there think we are a danger to aviation. But in all fairness, folks, as Bill said, there is no other traffic in the sky. I used to have a construction company and I commuted to Botswana from Lanseria in my Seneca II. After reaching TOC, I would set my alarm, the autopilot, my pillow and doze off for the 55 minute flight and wake up promptly at TOD. There was (is?) just nobody else in the sky. Here, especially in So CA, the pilot and pax look like cranes as they wring their necks around to look everywhere - and actually see stuff with wings. I remember the ATC at Wonderboom (near Pretoria) one day clearing the cricuit because Hugh Stocks flew in with his Lear. The only one in the county at the time, I believe. Poor Dirk Munnik, he was just not going to have a Cherokee closer than 20 miles to that Lear on his watch. Anyway. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "W J R HAMILTON" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Maputo > --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON > > All, > Having operated a leased B707-338C, ex Qantas, for DETA out of Maputo, many > years ago, sounds like the only thing that has changed is that it has got > worse. At least we controlled our own maintenance. No problems with ATC, > there wasn't any. I remember doing a route qual. on a chap who hadn't > looked too closely at the charts, wanted to know where the VOR/DME > frequencies were shown. The answer, "What VOR/DME , and by the way, the NDB > is usually off, and don't ask about NOTAMs, there aren't any" elicited a > rather funny reaction. Having top look out the window in anything bigger > than a C-172 was obviously a new and unwelcome experience. > Re the ATC,you'r not going to have a mid air with yourself, and the only > other traffic in those days were the local eagles and the occasional high > flying scrub turkey, and you should see what they do to a JT3B-3D. > Cheers, > Bill Hamilton. > > > At 12:11 10/22/03 -0700, css nico wrote: > >--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > > >Well as they say in the classics, don't hold your breath. Africa is not > >much better today, Bill, they are trying to practice western standards in > >business, but as long as they believe that the rest of the world owes them > >a living, they will take and take and take attributing their misguided > >approach as their right to justice. > >It's a miracle that your planes stayed aloft to get the job done. I once > >waited at Maputo for taxi clearance and a 737 taxied past (Moz air, of > >course) with a piece of rubber flapping off one of the wheels of the main > >undercarriage. I called the tower to let the pilot know about the > >situation but the pilot reported that he knew about the tread coming off > >the one wheel and that it's still OK. He took off with pieces of rubber > >flying in all directions. Glad I sat in my 500 and not in that ship. > >Thanks > >Nico > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Bow > > To: css nico > > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:44 AM > > Subject: Re: Maputo > > > > > > I spent 30 days flying for Caladonian Airlines Inc. of Beruit, under > > contract to Air Tanzania. We were hired to start service from Dar es > > Salem to London in a Boeing 720. Instead we were flying troops, who had > > been in Rodesia, from Biera to Maputo. I'm still waiting for my paycheck > > from that "job" > > > > bilbo > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: css nico > > To: Bill Bow > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:16 PM > > Subject: Re: Maputo > > > > > > Yeah, huge prawns and Portuguese beer, I think it was Cocos or > > something. Someone remembers? We started flying in supplies to Inhaca > > soon after 1980. > > Nico > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bill Bow > > To: nico@cybersuperstore.com > > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:02 PM > > Subject: Maputo > > > > > > Nico, > > > > I hadn't heard/seen that name in more than twenty years. I spent > > Christmas 1980 in Maputo. It was certainly a Christmas to remember. > > > > Bilbo > > > > > > > COMMUNICATIONS > CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note. > The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton, > Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is: > > will remain valid for about three months. > All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about > three months, the date will be notified. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:28 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Maputo --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" We had a piece of a laminated panel on the wing come off. It was about 3 feet by 8 feet. I said something about they should be able to get it from South African Airways and was shocked at their response. I wasn't very aware of the politics involved of the day. I can still remember Christmas dinner at the hotel. I opened the menu. There was fish on one side of the menu and pork on the other. I didn't want something looking back at me(the fish) so I ordered the pork. "Oh I'm sorry sir we are out of the pork" the waiter said. That only left the fish. I'm still confused why he gave us the menu. We had no choice. Jambo Bwana, bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "css nico" Subject: Commander-List: Re: Maputo > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > Well as they say in the classics, don't hold your breath. Africa is not much better today, Bill, they are trying to practice western standards in business, but as long as they believe that the rest of the world owes them a living, they will take and take and take attributing their misguided approach as their right to justice. > It's a miracle that your planes stayed aloft to get the job done. I once waited at Maputo for taxi clearance and a 737 taxied past (Moz air, of course) with a piece of rubber flapping off one of the wheels of the main undercarriage. I called the tower to let the pilot know about the situation but the pilot reported that he knew about the tread coming off the one wheel and that it's still OK. He took off with pieces of rubber flying in all directions. Glad I sat in my 500 and not in that ship. > Thanks > Nico > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Bow > To: css nico > Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:44 AM > Subject: Re: Maputo > > > I spent 30 days flying for Caladonian Airlines Inc. of Beruit, under contract to Air Tanzania. We were hired to start service from Dar es Salem to London in a Boeing 720. Instead we were flying troops, who had been in Rodesia, from Biera to Maputo. I'm still waiting for my paycheck from that "job" > > bilbo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: css nico > To: Bill Bow > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: Maputo > > > Yeah, huge prawns and Portuguese beer, I think it was Cocos or something. Someone remembers? We started flying in supplies to Inhaca soon after 1980. > Nico > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Bow > To: nico@cybersuperstore.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:02 PM > Subject: Maputo > > > Nico, > > I hadn't heard/seen that name in more than twenty years. I spent Christmas 1980 in Maputo. It was certainly a Christmas to remember. > > Bilbo > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:54 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" I think what people are missing in this thread is, priorities. Be it a three man crew or solo. For emergencies there are "memory items" and then there are checklist items. Memory item are the ones that can kill right away. Check list items may kill you later. It isn't one or the other, but a combination that has proven to be the most effective. Memory items when the engine fails(throttle, prop, mixture). All the rest can probably wait until later. bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "css nico" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > Oh, we are just talking about the practice of checklists versus memorized > drills. Some folks adhere more rigorously to checklists than others. I was a > total non-checklist pilot but has since converted, but the extent to which > one ought to follow a checklist is the question. Obviously checklists are > good verifiers, but the pilot should be able to complete all phases of the > flight from memory. > Otherwise, sorry, there's no point. > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Sather" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Robert Sather" > > > > > > The point being????? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "css nico" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" > > > > > > > > There are strong arguments for checklists by pros who have been > practicing > > > their craft safely for a long time and amateurs like me will do good to > > heed > > > their advice. However, checklists appear to be only part of the story. > > > Checklists, yes, but checklists alone, no way. And it is not as if the > > pros > > > proposed that checklists are alone the cure for all fingertroubles, but > > they > > > preached to me and folks who would strap a plane to their butts and > blast > > > off having followed some acronym and scanning the instrument panel from > > left > > > to right touching each instrument and switch in an attempt to remain > > within > > > the reality realm. > > > Thanks > > > Nico > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Checklists anyone? > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/21/2003 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca writes: > > > > > > > > > Absolutely emergency drills in a single pilot environment have to be > > > > > conducted from memory > > > > > > > > How about a "memory checklist" I use C-I-G-A-R T-I-P. As I ferry or > > > write > > > > about many different airplanes, many (most) don't have a reliable > > written > > > > checklist. I believe firmly that a memory checklist is essential to > > > safety. > > > > Emergencies require it. There are also the items that are not > currently > > > found on > > > > the Commander written checklist, such as turning off the aux hyd pump > > > after TO > > > > or checking the aux fuel valve operation prior to engine start. These > > > items > > > > are not found on the written checklist, but extremely important in the > > > real > > > > world. I have chosen to memorize them. There are certainly airplanes > > > that are > > > > to complex to commit their operation to memory, but Commander is not > one > > > of > > > > them. Just my thoughts. jb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:00 PM PST US From: Andrew & Bridget Watson Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Maputo --> Commander-List message posted by: Andrew & Bridget Watson > Jambo Bwana, For that part of the world (Southern Africa) I believe the correct closing greeting would be "Shala gahle, Nkosi" (literally "stay well, King"). "Jambo Bwana" is a Swahili greeting. :-) God bless, Andrew.