Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:38 AM - On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink (George J. Yundt III)
2. 08:03 AM - Re: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
3. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: fuel shut off valve overhaul (Bill Bow)
4. 06:00 PM - Re: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink ()
5. 06:41 PM - Re: Need window moldings for a 681 (W J R HAMILTON)
6. 08:02 PM - Re: Need window moldings for a 681 (Brock Lorber - VegasFC)
7. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: fuel shut off valve overhaul (W J R HAMILTON)
8. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: fuel shut off valve overhaul (W J R HAMILTON)
Message 1
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| Subject: | On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "George J. Yundt III" <yundt@speakeasy.net>
Mr. Hancock & TCFG readers,
My Commander 685 aircraft is blessed with a current generation Bendix-King
4-Color Vertical Profile Stabilized Weather Radar, a Stormscope 500A, and
Bendix-King VDL Mode-2 Datalink Receiver providing National NextRad images,
plus Metars, Tafs, Pireps, etc. To make all the info manageable and provide
maximum awareness, all three weather "sensor" sources are displayed
(overlaying my position and course) on my Bendix-King IHAS 8000 System's
KMD-850 Multi-Function Display. As such, I hope I can add a perspective
that may be helpful in your decision-making process. Since you asked about
the first two technologies, and a few other members added info on the later,
I thought I would provide my thoughts on all three. (My experience with
weather radar is over 30 years, Stormscope 25 years, and NextRad Datalink 2
years. I hold an ATP and 10,500 hrs. PIC)
First of all, while the goal of each of the three technologies attempts to
give the pilot a pretty good idea of the weather threat confronting the
flight, in reality each technology gives the pilot only "a piece of the
puzzle, but NONE of the technologies give whole picture"! I personally
taker them (along with a good pre-flight weather briefing) as COMPLEMENTARY
sources of info, and are best when used in concert. That being said, and
recognizing that not everyone will choose to install all three technologies,
here is a brief synopsis:
1) NextRad is the ideal STRATEGIC Avoidance tool (whether airborne
datalinked into the cockpit, or looking at the computer at the FBO right
before departure). It should be used to get the "big Picture", and to plan
routing so as to avoid the WX totally, or at least choose the least
obstructed routing. Depending on whose device and service you have, you
must remember that it is aged information (usually 6 minutes) and therefore
NOT REAL-TIME! Also, it aggregates the reflectivity through the entire
vertical section (or the largest portion) of the storm, NOT necessarily the
altitude you may actually be penetrating at. In a rapidly changing
thunderstorm, this information has little value if you are up-close and
personal, and are trying to pick your way through a line with more than 30%
coverage. Again, it is a GREAT AVOIDANCE TOOL! By the way, we used to ask
Center for this "big picture" advice...but this is FAR better!
2) OnBoard Weather Radar is the most widely used TACTICAL tool used by the
Pro's, and (if operated and interpreted correctly) is the single best thing
to have if you choose pick your way through a scattered or broken line, or
if you absolutely must, even penetrate the weather. However, due to inherit
design of relatively low RF power, beam- and Pulse-width errors, attenuation
and X-Band's ability to only "see liquid phase" moisture (No, it can't see
heavy snow below, ice pellets nor hail below -5C, and CERTAINLY IT CANNOT
SEE TURBULENCE!), it definitely does have its limitations. The ONLY thing
experience with tilt and gain, intuition, and good use of your eyeballs
(yes, the ORIGINAL weather avoidance system God gave each of us!) to glean
the maximum amount if information available from an airborne radar system.
One other word of advice: Very few light twin aircraft have good quality
Radomes. Most OEM's provide a fiberglass nosecone....It AIN'T necessarily a
good Radome! In my experience, Norton / St. Gobaine makes the best Radome
for a Commander, but you can expect to pay over $10K for even a good
re-conditioned one. Specifically, look for something that has the geometry
for a 12" flat plate antenna (approx 40% more gain than a 10"), as well as
proper honeycomb construction for good RF transmissivity. The world's best
radar isn't worth 10 cents if you don't have a good radome! P.S. There are
a few large aircraft radars that also have a Doppler feature. Today, they
can actually "predict" turbulence but only out to about 10 miles ahead.
Maybe we will have them added to light aircraft radar systems in the next 10
years or so.
3) Stormscope's recommended use depends whether it is stand alone (then it
should be used only as a STRATEGIC Avoidance Tool) or, if it is used in
conjunction with either the two above technologies (then it CAN be used
collectively as TACTICAL Tool). Let me explain. Stormscope plots
electrical activity on the display ONLY, presenting the pilot with azimuth
and "pseudo-range" (it uses algorithms to calculate and plot "range" as a
function of RF strength of the static discharge (lightning strike). Since
some strikes are much stronger than others (which it will plot the strike
closer than it actually is), and some are weaker (plotting them further away
than they really are), it can only "approximate" the true location of the
storm cell. The later Stormscope models eliminate a good portion of the
"radial spread phenomena" by providing a "Cell Mode". The good news is that
it has "conservatism built in", i.e., it shows the strongest storms closer
than they actually are, warning the Stormscope ONLY equipped pilot to steer
a wider deviation (which is prudent!). In my opinion, there is one thing
that Stormscope predicts quite well (perhaps better than ANYTHING
ELSE!)...and that is moderate to severe Turbulence. The reason is simple:
In order to generate enough molecular friction to generate a lightning
strike, you MUST have significant convective activity. Where there is
LIGHTING, there IS USUALLY SIGNIFICANT TRUBULENCE! This is why I believe
that a Stormscope is the ideal partner to have with Weather Radar.
So, there is NO one single system available to the light twin owner today
that gives the full, complete story. However, if you combine two, or better
yet, all three of the technologies above, you have superb weather avoidance
capability. Hope that this helps! Feel free to call if you have any
further questions!
George J. Yundt III
708.349.2121
yundt@speakeasy.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
Thank you for an excellent discission of the available systems. I feel
better educated about my options.
Randy Dettmer
680F/N6253X
So, there is NO one single system available to the light twin owner today
> that gives the full, complete story. However, if you combine two, or
better
> yet, all three of the technologies above, you have superb weather
avoidance
> capability. Hope that this helps!
>
> George J. Yundt III
> 708.349.2121
> yundt@speakeasy.net
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Posts like this are nice to see. To me, this is what the list is all about.
Thanks
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Dickey" <jdickey@radictech.com>
Subject: Commander-List: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Scott Dickey"
<jdickey@radictech.com>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Fuel gate valves can be overhauled by Aircraft Accessories in OK.
> 800-255-9924. Cost is about $450. Aircraft Accessories overhauls just
about
> all other valves and related components such as hydraulic pumps, de-ice
> valves, etc. They do a good job and their warranty policy is excellent -
no
> questions asked, they just make it right ASAP.
>
>
> Here is some other component overhaul repair trivia:
>
>
> Power brake valves - if the bore of your power brake valve cylinder is
worn
> beyond limits and resealing didn't stop the leaks, you can buy a new one
> from TCAC for about $4000 or Higher Planes of Conroe, TX (936-494-1717)
will
> use their FAA approved process to re-anodize the bore to new limits. Cost
is
> about $2500.
>
>
> 3:1 gauges - These can be done by a variety of companies, but Aero Motive
> Equipment of Oklahoma City, OK has a good supply of parts and can
completely
> rebuild, remark, and match your 3:1 gauges. Kelley Instruments of Wichita,
> KS can probably do it also. Kelley is a good source for gyros and other
> stuff like a/s indicators. I had them re-mark my a/s indicator in knots
and
> add blue/red lines.
>
>
> Question: Does anyone know where to get a windshield hotplate
> repaired/overhauled?
>
>
> Scott
>
>
Message 4
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<commander-list@matronics.com>, <radialpower@cox.net>
| Subject: | Re: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink |
--> Commander-List message posted by: <radialpower@cox.net>
George,
That was a very informative dissertation on the three technologies available
for weather detection and avoidance. What was not addressed was my
question of given the choice between one of two technologies, which is the
more useful choice?
From the answers received it seems that for guys like me who'd rather do
the "end around" than the fullback up the middle, in-flight weather is the
way to go. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to accomplish the
following things...
1) Allows a picture of the weather and trends of what it is doing.
2) Provides enough infomormation to avoid the nasty stuff.
3) Is more useful than a stormscope, unless you're already in the hard
stuff.
4) Provides allows for game planning hundreds of miles in advance.
Seems to me that if you have to choose one technology, in-flight weather is
the most useful.
Thanks to all who replied, I hope it enlightened all of us a little...
Cheers,
Barry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Need window moldings for a 681 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
Folks,
There is an Australian company that makes a vast range of plastic mouldings
including for various Commanders, if there is any interest I can dig up the
contact details.
The products meet all necessary certification standards, I presume an
Export Certificate of Airworthiness is available.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 05:54 12/02/2004, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
>swperk@earthlink.net wrote:
> > http://www.urethanesupply.com/aircraftrepair.html
> >
> > Is this the article you remember?
>
>That looks like the same article Stan. The finished part looks really
>good doesn't it? I'm sure you probably were not looking for a project
>like that, but welcome to "classic" airplane ownership...
>
>Chris
>
>
COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note.
The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton,
Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is:
<wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
<fighterf@ozemail.com.au> will remain valid for about three months.
All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Need window moldings for a 681 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Brock Lorber - VegasFC" <blorber@vegasfc.com>
Bill:
Please do.
Thanks!
> --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON
<wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Folks,
> There is an Australian company that makes a vast range of plastic
mouldings
> including for various Commanders, if there is any interest I can dig up
the details
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul |
--> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
All,
Another source for instruments is Heritage Aero at Chino, CA.
Jeff Pearson ( used to be with Southwest Instruments before he started his
own show) has things like the 3 in 1 guages new old stock for our aircraft,
plus just about any instrument from 1939 through to the present.
His cell phone is 818 371 9848.
Email is < Roundengine@yahoo.com>
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 04:37 15/02/2004, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Scott Dickey" <jdickey@radictech.com>
>
>Hi,
>
>
>Fuel gate valves can be overhauled by Aircraft Accessories in OK.
>800-255-9924. Cost is about $450. Aircraft Accessories overhauls just about
>all other valves and related components such as hydraulic pumps, de-ice
>valves, etc. They do a good job and their warranty policy is excellent - no
>questions asked, they just make it right ASAP.
>
>
>Here is some other component overhaul repair trivia:
>
>
>Power brake valves - if the bore of your power brake valve cylinder is worn
>beyond limits and resealing didn't stop the leaks, you can buy a new one
>from TCAC for about $4000 or Higher Planes of Conroe, TX (936-494-1717) will
>use their FAA approved process to re-anodize the bore to new limits. Cost is
>about $2500.
>
>
>3:1 gauges - These can be done by a variety of companies, but Aero Motive
>Equipment of Oklahoma City, OK has a good supply of parts and can completely
>rebuild, remark, and match your 3:1 gauges. Kelley Instruments of Wichita,
>KS can probably do it also. Kelley is a good source for gyros and other
>stuff like a/s indicators. I had them re-mark my a/s indicator in knots and
>add blue/red lines.
>
>
>Question: Does anyone know where to get a windshield hotplate
>repaired/overhauled?
>
>
>Scott
>
>
COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note.
The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton,
Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is:
<wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
<fighterf@ozemail.com.au> will remain valid for about three months.
All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about
three months, the date will be notified.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul |
--> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
All,
Another source for instruments is Heritage Aero at Chino, CA.
Jeff Pearson ( used to be with Southwest Instruments before he started his
own show) has things like the 3 in 1 guages new old stock for our aircraft,
plus just about any instrument from 1939 through to the present.
His cell phone is 818 371 9848.
Email is < Roundengine@yahoo.com>
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
At 04:37 15/02/2004, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Scott Dickey" <jdickey@radictech.com>
>
>Hi,
>
>
>Fuel gate valves can be overhauled by Aircraft Accessories in OK.
>800-255-9924. Cost is about $450. Aircraft Accessories overhauls just about
>all other valves and related components such as hydraulic pumps, de-ice
>valves, etc. They do a good job and their warranty policy is excellent - no
>questions asked, they just make it right ASAP.
>
>
>Here is some other component overhaul repair trivia:
>
>
>Power brake valves - if the bore of your power brake valve cylinder is worn
>beyond limits and resealing didn't stop the leaks, you can buy a new one
>from TCAC for about $4000 or Higher Planes of Conroe, TX (936-494-1717) will
>use their FAA approved process to re-anodize the bore to new limits. Cost is
>about $2500.
>
>
>3:1 gauges - These can be done by a variety of companies, but Aero Motive
>Equipment of Oklahoma City, OK has a good supply of parts and can completely
>rebuild, remark, and match your 3:1 gauges. Kelley Instruments of Wichita,
>KS can probably do it also. Kelley is a good source for gyros and other
>stuff like a/s indicators. I had them re-mark my a/s indicator in knots and
>add blue/red lines.
>
>
>Question: Does anyone know where to get a windshield hotplate
>repaired/overhauled?
>
>
>Scott
>
>
COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note.
The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton,
Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is:
<wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
<fighterf@ozemail.com.au> will remain valid for about three months.
All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about
three months, the date will be notified.
COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note.
The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton,
Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is:
<wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
<fighterf@ozemail.com.au> will remain valid for about three months.
All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about
three months, the date will be notified.
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