---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/15/04: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:38 AM - On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink (George J. Yundt III) 2. 08:03 AM - Re: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 3. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: fuel shut off valve overhaul (Bill Bow) 4. 06:00 PM - Re: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink () 5. 06:41 PM - Re: Need window moldings for a 681 (W J R HAMILTON) 6. 08:02 PM - Re: Need window moldings for a 681 (Brock Lorber - VegasFC) 7. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: fuel shut off valve overhaul (W J R HAMILTON) 8. 08:42 PM - Re: Re: fuel shut off valve overhaul (W J R HAMILTON) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:37 AM PST US From: "George J. Yundt III" Subject: Commander-List: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink --> Commander-List message posted by: "George J. Yundt III" Mr. Hancock & TCFG readers, My Commander 685 aircraft is blessed with a current generation Bendix-King 4-Color Vertical Profile Stabilized Weather Radar, a Stormscope 500A, and Bendix-King VDL Mode-2 Datalink Receiver providing National NextRad images, plus Metars, Tafs, Pireps, etc. To make all the info manageable and provide maximum awareness, all three weather "sensor" sources are displayed (overlaying my position and course) on my Bendix-King IHAS 8000 System's KMD-850 Multi-Function Display. As such, I hope I can add a perspective that may be helpful in your decision-making process. Since you asked about the first two technologies, and a few other members added info on the later, I thought I would provide my thoughts on all three. (My experience with weather radar is over 30 years, Stormscope 25 years, and NextRad Datalink 2 years. I hold an ATP and 10,500 hrs. PIC) First of all, while the goal of each of the three technologies attempts to give the pilot a pretty good idea of the weather threat confronting the flight, in reality each technology gives the pilot only "a piece of the puzzle, but NONE of the technologies give whole picture"! I personally taker them (along with a good pre-flight weather briefing) as COMPLEMENTARY sources of info, and are best when used in concert. That being said, and recognizing that not everyone will choose to install all three technologies, here is a brief synopsis: 1) NextRad is the ideal STRATEGIC Avoidance tool (whether airborne datalinked into the cockpit, or looking at the computer at the FBO right before departure). It should be used to get the "big Picture", and to plan routing so as to avoid the WX totally, or at least choose the least obstructed routing. Depending on whose device and service you have, you must remember that it is aged information (usually 6 minutes) and therefore NOT REAL-TIME! Also, it aggregates the reflectivity through the entire vertical section (or the largest portion) of the storm, NOT necessarily the altitude you may actually be penetrating at. In a rapidly changing thunderstorm, this information has little value if you are up-close and personal, and are trying to pick your way through a line with more than 30% coverage. Again, it is a GREAT AVOIDANCE TOOL! By the way, we used to ask Center for this "big picture" advice...but this is FAR better! 2) OnBoard Weather Radar is the most widely used TACTICAL tool used by the Pro's, and (if operated and interpreted correctly) is the single best thing to have if you choose pick your way through a scattered or broken line, or if you absolutely must, even penetrate the weather. However, due to inherit design of relatively low RF power, beam- and Pulse-width errors, attenuation and X-Band's ability to only "see liquid phase" moisture (No, it can't see heavy snow below, ice pellets nor hail below -5C, and CERTAINLY IT CANNOT SEE TURBULENCE!), it definitely does have its limitations. The ONLY thing experience with tilt and gain, intuition, and good use of your eyeballs (yes, the ORIGINAL weather avoidance system God gave each of us!) to glean the maximum amount if information available from an airborne radar system. One other word of advice: Very few light twin aircraft have good quality Radomes. Most OEM's provide a fiberglass nosecone....It AIN'T necessarily a good Radome! In my experience, Norton / St. Gobaine makes the best Radome for a Commander, but you can expect to pay over $10K for even a good re-conditioned one. Specifically, look for something that has the geometry for a 12" flat plate antenna (approx 40% more gain than a 10"), as well as proper honeycomb construction for good RF transmissivity. The world's best radar isn't worth 10 cents if you don't have a good radome! P.S. There are a few large aircraft radars that also have a Doppler feature. Today, they can actually "predict" turbulence but only out to about 10 miles ahead. Maybe we will have them added to light aircraft radar systems in the next 10 years or so. 3) Stormscope's recommended use depends whether it is stand alone (then it should be used only as a STRATEGIC Avoidance Tool) or, if it is used in conjunction with either the two above technologies (then it CAN be used collectively as TACTICAL Tool). Let me explain. Stormscope plots electrical activity on the display ONLY, presenting the pilot with azimuth and "pseudo-range" (it uses algorithms to calculate and plot "range" as a function of RF strength of the static discharge (lightning strike). Since some strikes are much stronger than others (which it will plot the strike closer than it actually is), and some are weaker (plotting them further away than they really are), it can only "approximate" the true location of the storm cell. The later Stormscope models eliminate a good portion of the "radial spread phenomena" by providing a "Cell Mode". The good news is that it has "conservatism built in", i.e., it shows the strongest storms closer than they actually are, warning the Stormscope ONLY equipped pilot to steer a wider deviation (which is prudent!). In my opinion, there is one thing that Stormscope predicts quite well (perhaps better than ANYTHING ELSE!)...and that is moderate to severe Turbulence. The reason is simple: In order to generate enough molecular friction to generate a lightning strike, you MUST have significant convective activity. Where there is LIGHTING, there IS USUALLY SIGNIFICANT TRUBULENCE! This is why I believe that a Stormscope is the ideal partner to have with Weather Radar. So, there is NO one single system available to the light twin owner today that gives the full, complete story. However, if you combine two, or better yet, all three of the technologies above, you have superb weather avoidance capability. Hope that this helps! Feel free to call if you have any further questions! George J. Yundt III 708.349.2121 yundt@speakeasy.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:26 AM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: Re: Commander-List: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink --> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Thank you for an excellent discission of the available systems. I feel better educated about my options. Randy Dettmer 680F/N6253X So, there is NO one single system available to the light twin owner today > that gives the full, complete story. However, if you combine two, or better > yet, all three of the technologies above, you have superb weather avoidance > capability. Hope that this helps! > > George J. Yundt III > 708.349.2121 > yundt@speakeasy.net > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:44 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Posts like this are nice to see. To me, this is what the list is all about. Thanks bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Dickey" Subject: Commander-List: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Scott Dickey" > > Hi, > > > Fuel gate valves can be overhauled by Aircraft Accessories in OK. > 800-255-9924. Cost is about $450. Aircraft Accessories overhauls just about > all other valves and related components such as hydraulic pumps, de-ice > valves, etc. They do a good job and their warranty policy is excellent - no > questions asked, they just make it right ASAP. > > > Here is some other component overhaul repair trivia: > > > Power brake valves - if the bore of your power brake valve cylinder is worn > beyond limits and resealing didn't stop the leaks, you can buy a new one > from TCAC for about $4000 or Higher Planes of Conroe, TX (936-494-1717) will > use their FAA approved process to re-anodize the bore to new limits. Cost is > about $2500. > > > 3:1 gauges - These can be done by a variety of companies, but Aero Motive > Equipment of Oklahoma City, OK has a good supply of parts and can completely > rebuild, remark, and match your 3:1 gauges. Kelley Instruments of Wichita, > KS can probably do it also. Kelley is a good source for gyros and other > stuff like a/s indicators. I had them re-mark my a/s indicator in knots and > add blue/red lines. > > > Question: Does anyone know where to get a windshield hotplate > repaired/overhauled? > > > Scott > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:24 PM PST US From: , Subject: Commander-List: Re: On-Board Wx Radar vs Stormscope vs NextRad Datalink --> Commander-List message posted by: George, That was a very informative dissertation on the three technologies available for weather detection and avoidance. What was not addressed was my question of given the choice between one of two technologies, which is the more useful choice? From the answers received it seems that for guys like me who'd rather do the "end around" than the fullback up the middle, in-flight weather is the way to go. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to accomplish the following things... 1) Allows a picture of the weather and trends of what it is doing. 2) Provides enough infomormation to avoid the nasty stuff. 3) Is more useful than a stormscope, unless you're already in the hard stuff. 4) Provides allows for game planning hundreds of miles in advance. Seems to me that if you have to choose one technology, in-flight weather is the most useful. Thanks to all who replied, I hope it enlightened all of us a little... Cheers, Barry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:38 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Re: Commander-List: Need window moldings for a 681 --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON Folks, There is an Australian company that makes a vast range of plastic mouldings including for various Commanders, if there is any interest I can dig up the contact details. The products meet all necessary certification standards, I presume an Export Certificate of Airworthiness is available. Cheers, Bill Hamilton. At 05:54 12/02/2004, you wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann > > >swperk@earthlink.net wrote: > > http://www.urethanesupply.com/aircraftrepair.html > > > > Is this the article you remember? > >That looks like the same article Stan. The finished part looks really >good doesn't it? I'm sure you probably were not looking for a project >like that, but welcome to "classic" airplane ownership... > >Chris > > COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note. The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton, Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is: will remain valid for about three months. All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about three months, the date will be notified. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:11 PM PST US From: "Brock Lorber - VegasFC" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Need window moldings for a 681 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Brock Lorber - VegasFC" Bill: Please do. Thanks! > --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON > > Folks, > There is an Australian company that makes a vast range of plastic mouldings > including for various Commanders, if there is any interest I can dig up the details ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:41 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON All, Another source for instruments is Heritage Aero at Chino, CA. Jeff Pearson ( used to be with Southwest Instruments before he started his own show) has things like the 3 in 1 guages new old stock for our aircraft, plus just about any instrument from 1939 through to the present. His cell phone is 818 371 9848. Email is < Roundengine@yahoo.com> Cheers, Bill Hamilton At 04:37 15/02/2004, you wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Scott Dickey" > >Hi, > > >Fuel gate valves can be overhauled by Aircraft Accessories in OK. >800-255-9924. Cost is about $450. Aircraft Accessories overhauls just about >all other valves and related components such as hydraulic pumps, de-ice >valves, etc. They do a good job and their warranty policy is excellent - no >questions asked, they just make it right ASAP. > > >Here is some other component overhaul repair trivia: > > >Power brake valves - if the bore of your power brake valve cylinder is worn >beyond limits and resealing didn't stop the leaks, you can buy a new one >from TCAC for about $4000 or Higher Planes of Conroe, TX (936-494-1717) will >use their FAA approved process to re-anodize the bore to new limits. Cost is >about $2500. > > >3:1 gauges - These can be done by a variety of companies, but Aero Motive >Equipment of Oklahoma City, OK has a good supply of parts and can completely >rebuild, remark, and match your 3:1 gauges. Kelley Instruments of Wichita, >KS can probably do it also. Kelley is a good source for gyros and other >stuff like a/s indicators. I had them re-mark my a/s indicator in knots and >add blue/red lines. > > >Question: Does anyone know where to get a windshield hotplate >repaired/overhauled? > > >Scott > > COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note. The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton, Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is: will remain valid for about three months. All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about three months, the date will be notified. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:41 PM PST US From: W J R HAMILTON Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: fuel shut off valve overhaul --> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON All, Another source for instruments is Heritage Aero at Chino, CA. Jeff Pearson ( used to be with Southwest Instruments before he started his own show) has things like the 3 in 1 guages new old stock for our aircraft, plus just about any instrument from 1939 through to the present. His cell phone is 818 371 9848. Email is < Roundengine@yahoo.com> Cheers, Bill Hamilton At 04:37 15/02/2004, you wrote: >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Scott Dickey" > >Hi, > > >Fuel gate valves can be overhauled by Aircraft Accessories in OK. >800-255-9924. Cost is about $450. Aircraft Accessories overhauls just about >all other valves and related components such as hydraulic pumps, de-ice >valves, etc. They do a good job and their warranty policy is excellent - no >questions asked, they just make it right ASAP. > > >Here is some other component overhaul repair trivia: > > >Power brake valves - if the bore of your power brake valve cylinder is worn >beyond limits and resealing didn't stop the leaks, you can buy a new one >from TCAC for about $4000 or Higher Planes of Conroe, TX (936-494-1717) will >use their FAA approved process to re-anodize the bore to new limits. Cost is >about $2500. > > >3:1 gauges - These can be done by a variety of companies, but Aero Motive >Equipment of Oklahoma City, OK has a good supply of parts and can completely >rebuild, remark, and match your 3:1 gauges. Kelley Instruments of Wichita, >KS can probably do it also. Kelley is a good source for gyros and other >stuff like a/s indicators. I had them re-mark my a/s indicator in knots and >add blue/red lines. > > >Question: Does anyone know where to get a windshield hotplate >repaired/overhauled? > > >Scott > > COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note. The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton, Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is: will remain valid for about three months. All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about three months, the date will be notified. COMMUNICATIONS CHANGES: All Recipients Please Note. The new email address for all Glenalmond Group Companies, W.J.R.Hamilton, Fighter Flights Internet Services and Warbirds.Net is: will remain valid for about three months. All phone numbers remain unchanged, but changes will take place in about three months, the date will be notified.