Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:52 AM - Re: V-Speeds (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
2. 08:39 AM - Re: V-Speeds (css nico)
3. 08:58 AM - Re: V-Speeds (Tom Fisher)
4. 10:30 AM - Re: V-Speeds (Bill Bow)
5. 10:46 AM - Re: V-Speeds (Deneal Schilmeister (iMac))
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
CloudCraft@aol.com writes:
etc.
Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
Thanks, great refresher! jb
Message 2
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
I cannot remember all the v-limitations any longer but I loved flying
thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps like
in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust in
the carpets. The theory is that the wings would rather stall than bend at
that speed and there is just not sufficient vertical or lateral velocity to
bend the fuselage. Even with that approach I was sucked up as much as 10,000
feet into the storm on several occasions trying to contain the airspeed and
if I didn't fly through the cell to the other side, it probably would have
taken me much higher. Storm cells are usually very small and squall lines
and large storms are made up of many cells through which one can fly if you
want to go up and down more than forward. Provided you don't pick up hail,
of course. That will pick you apart like a Lego building.
Microbursts became familiar to me only after that airliner crashed close to
the runway a couple of years ago (I believe it was during a landing) and
then I realized that I flew microbursts on many occasions in the past. Every
time it happened I kept my cool by considering what it is that nature is
giving me for free and when will she take it back again. So, I would not be
lulled into trying to maintain glide angle or approach speeds. And sure
enough, not long afterwards nature would take back what she gave out. I
realize moving a small plane (7000# or less) around in the atmosphere is
much less dramatic than a 300K# airliner, so I am not trying to diminish the
seriousness of the phenomenon, but they can be flown in certain
circumstances.
A debate that has never been resolved, as far as I know at least, is whether
one would drop the undercarriage on CB penetration or not. Some say the
extra appendages hanging below the wings cause further stress on the
fuselage while others say the extra drag would prevent sudden overspeeding.
I preferred to keep the undercarriage tucked in. What say you, wise ones?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> CloudCraft@aol.com writes:
> etc.
> Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
> Thanks, great refresher! jb
>
>
Message 3
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
After reading this Email, (although I love the details), this smart pilot
will continue to stay out of the thunder storms.
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> I cannot remember all the v-limitations any longer but I loved flying
> thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps
like
> in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust
in
> the carpets. The theory is that the wings would rather stall than bend at
> that speed and there is just not sufficient vertical or lateral velocity
to
> bend the fuselage. Even with that approach I was sucked up as much as
10,000
> feet into the storm on several occasions trying to contain the airspeed
and
> if I didn't fly through the cell to the other side, it probably would have
> taken me much higher. Storm cells are usually very small and squall lines
> and large storms are made up of many cells through which one can fly if
you
> want to go up and down more than forward. Provided you don't pick up hail,
> of course. That will pick you apart like a Lego building.
> Microbursts became familiar to me only after that airliner crashed close
to
> the runway a couple of years ago (I believe it was during a landing) and
> then I realized that I flew microbursts on many occasions in the past.
Every
> time it happened I kept my cool by considering what it is that nature is
> giving me for free and when will she take it back again. So, I would not
be
> lulled into trying to maintain glide angle or approach speeds. And sure
> enough, not long afterwards nature would take back what she gave out. I
> realize moving a small plane (7000# or less) around in the atmosphere is
> much less dramatic than a 300K# airliner, so I am not trying to diminish
the
> seriousness of the phenomenon, but they can be flown in certain
> circumstances.
> A debate that has never been resolved, as far as I know at least, is
whether
> one would drop the undercarriage on CB penetration or not. Some say the
> extra appendages hanging below the wings cause further stress on the
> fuselage while others say the extra drag would prevent sudden
overspeeding.
> I preferred to keep the undercarriage tucked in. What say you, wise ones?
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > CloudCraft@aol.com writes:
> > etc.
> > Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
> > Thanks, great refresher! jb
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
YOU'RE NUTS!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "css nico"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com>
>
> I cannot remember all the v-limitations any longer but I loved flying
> thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps
like
> in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust
in
> the carpets. The theory is that the wings would rather stall than bend at
> that speed and there is just not sufficient vertical or lateral velocity
to
> bend the fuselage. Even with that approach I was sucked up as much as
10,000
> feet into the storm on several occasions trying to contain the airspeed
and
> if I didn't fly through the cell to the other side, it probably would have
> taken me much higher. Storm cells are usually very small and squall lines
> and large storms are made up of many cells through which one can fly if
you
> want to go up and down more than forward. Provided you don't pick up hail,
> of course. That will pick you apart like a Lego building.
> Microbursts became familiar to me only after that airliner crashed close
to
> the runway a couple of years ago (I believe it was during a landing) and
> then I realized that I flew microbursts on many occasions in the past.
Every
> time it happened I kept my cool by considering what it is that nature is
> giving me for free and when will she take it back again. So, I would not
be
> lulled into trying to maintain glide angle or approach speeds. And sure
> enough, not long afterwards nature would take back what she gave out. I
> realize moving a small plane (7000# or less) around in the atmosphere is
> much less dramatic than a 300K# airliner, so I am not trying to diminish
the
> seriousness of the phenomenon, but they can be flown in certain
> circumstances.
> A debate that has never been resolved, as far as I know at least, is
whether
> one would drop the undercarriage on CB penetration or not. Some say the
> extra appendages hanging below the wings cause further stress on the
> fuselage while others say the extra drag would prevent sudden
overspeeding.
> I preferred to keep the undercarriage tucked in. What say you, wise ones?
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: V-Speeds
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 3/8/2004 11:33:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > CloudCraft@aol.com writes:
> > etc.
> > Anything else we can help with? Anything anyone can add?
> > Thanks, great refresher! jb
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals@sbcglobal.net>
On 3/9/04 10:35, "css nico" <nico@cybersuperstore.com> wrote:
> but I loved flying
> thunderstorms back in Africa, where they could be quite a ride, perhaps like
> in the South West here in the States. The most memorable ones were in a
> Seneca II, AC500, and a single Comanche. Approaching a CB I would reduce
> speed to about 1.5 to 2 times stalling speed and belt down even the dust in
> the carpets.
NICO:
Are you old?
YOUR STORY Reminds me of a time when I flew cargo in a C402 five nights a
week. I had the boss on board, and we had to hold beneath a Tstorm right
over the Midway Airport in Chicago. De plane was bucking like a bull,
rising and dropping as we flew around in the holding pattern.
I was scared to death, but the boss as standing up behind the pilots seat,
slapping me on the back, gleefully shouting "ride em cowboy... Whoohoo!!!"
26 years later its a memory I can't seem to forget.
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet--(OLD, NOT BOLD)
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
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