Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:29 AM - Re: Paint work (Chris Schuermann)
2. 06:12 AM - 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay (aerocommander)
3. 06:18 AM - Re: flyin (Russell Legg)
4. 07:13 AM - Re: Paint work (MASON Chevaillier)
5. 08:09 AM - Re: flyin (nico css 2)
6. 08:13 AM - Re: flyin (Chris Schuermann)
7. 09:06 AM - Re: flyin (MRP)
8. 09:30 AM - Re: flyin (Chris Schuermann)
9. 10:18 AM - Re: flyin (nico css)
10. 10:41 AM - Re: flyin (Chris Schuermann)
11. 03:52 PM - Re: flyin (RnJThompson@aol.com)
12. 04:36 PM - Re: flyin (W J R HAMILTON)
13. 06:20 PM - Re: flyin (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
14. 06:30 PM - Re: flyin (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
Martini Luc J.R. wrote:
> While your at it, you might tell me about how you neutralized the Paint
> Stripper caustic compounds
You are quite correct that the pre-paint prep work is VERY important.
We used traditional chemical stripper for the majority of the airframe.
(with wooden scrapers and scotchbrite pads) The post strip cleanup was
very thourough. Every part was carefully washed with water and a
neutralizer, then washed again with a steam cleaner with special
attention to all the edges, gaps, and rivets. Every seam was "scrubbed"
with nylon bristle toothbrushes. After that, the airframe was scrubbed
with scotchbrite pads to give a good surface for the paint to adhere to.
A final cleaning with MEK was done next.
After that was completed, the airframe was treated with alodine, then
re-washed prior to the epoxy zinc chromate primer. Now that the paint
has fully cured, I'll be going back and "fogging" the interior with
ACF50 which will kill any possibility of corrosion from any chemicals
which may still have residual traces around. ACF50 is the most amazing
stuff - it will even penetrate around rivets and the tightest seams.
I have heard of horror stories resulting from using
> wirebrushes
Correct - use of any metalic brush will embed tiny pieces of the brush
material into the aluminum and absolutely WILL result in damaging
corrosion. Never ever use a metal brush of any type! A nylon bristle
brush is the best choice, but must be used with care as chemical
cleaners such as MEK will disolve the bristles and leave goo on the
airplane.
The whole process isn't perfect, but with sufficient care, the amount of
residual stripper can minimized. You'll note that we had the airplane
substantially disassembled during the process - this was to assure that
we could maximize the cleaning process. Short of drilling apart the
skins and prepping each part at the component level, I think that's the
best that can be done. As an alternative, there are some shops which
are using plastic media blasting to strip old paint. In my opinion,
that is a good technology, but without great care can damage thin
alumiinum skins. The Piper has a lot of pretty thin sheet metal since
it's mostly a non-stressed skin design, so I wasn't comfortable using
that method.
hope this helped
Chris
Message 2
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| Subject: | 1954 520 Aero Commander at Ebay |
--> Commander-List message posted by: aerocommander <salm@aerocommander.de>
Hello group,
May be You hav not yet recognized this fine gal at Ebay.
She looks like to be worth to be kept airworthy.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=2482527873&rd=1
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26428&item=2482527873&rd=1>
best regards from germany
Volkmar
Volkmar Salm
Phone +49 7802 980 500
Fax +49 7802 980 954
salm@aerocommander.de
Message 3
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Russell Legg <rlegg@austarnet.com.au>
G'day Chris,
We sure missed you last year at the Commander Aero show.
It is highly likely that your "Down-under" pals from Oz will be at Kansas
City Downtown this year; talking a lot about flying Commanders the "right
way up"!
Cheers from Oz
Russell
(still looking for a 560E or maybe a Straight 500)
On 24/6/04 10:15 AM, "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
> Anyone have any details on what the seminars are going to be for this
> years fly-in and who will be speaking?
>
> Any of my old friends going to be there?
>
> chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@msn.com>
there is also a process used by texas aerocolor in brady, tx that uses
hydrogenperoxide to strip plane w/o residue to corode. mason
>From: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list@matronics.com
>To: commander-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Paint work
>Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 07:37:43 -0500
>
>--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
>Martini Luc J.R. wrote:
> > While your at it, you might tell me about how you neutralized the Paint
> > Stripper caustic compounds
>
>You are quite correct that the pre-paint prep work is VERY important.
>We used traditional chemical stripper for the majority of the airframe.
> (with wooden scrapers and scotchbrite pads) The post strip cleanup was
>very thourough. Every part was carefully washed with water and a
>neutralizer, then washed again with a steam cleaner with special
>attention to all the edges, gaps, and rivets. Every seam was "scrubbed"
>with nylon bristle toothbrushes. After that, the airframe was scrubbed
>with scotchbrite pads to give a good surface for the paint to adhere to.
> A final cleaning with MEK was done next.
>After that was completed, the airframe was treated with alodine, then
>re-washed prior to the epoxy zinc chromate primer. Now that the paint
>has fully cured, I'll be going back and "fogging" the interior with
>ACF50 which will kill any possibility of corrosion from any chemicals
>which may still have residual traces around. ACF50 is the most amazing
>stuff - it will even penetrate around rivets and the tightest seams.
>
> I have heard of horror stories resulting from using
> > wirebrushes
>
>Correct - use of any metalic brush will embed tiny pieces of the brush
>material into the aluminum and absolutely WILL result in damaging
>corrosion. Never ever use a metal brush of any type! A nylon bristle
>brush is the best choice, but must be used with care as chemical
>cleaners such as MEK will disolve the bristles and leave goo on the
>airplane.
>
>The whole process isn't perfect, but with sufficient care, the amount of
>residual stripper can minimized. You'll note that we had the airplane
>substantially disassembled during the process - this was to assure that
>we could maximize the cleaning process. Short of drilling apart the
>skins and prepping each part at the component level, I think that's the
>best that can be done. As an alternative, there are some shops which
>are using plastic media blasting to strip old paint. In my opinion,
>that is a good technology, but without great care can damage thin
>alumiinum skins. The Piper has a lot of pretty thin sheet metal since
>it's mostly a non-stressed skin design, so I wasn't comfortable using
>that method.
>
>hope this helped
>Chris
>
>
Message 5
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css 2" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
What a nice project, Chris. It didn't help the other folks that it was
located next to a grave yard either, huh?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: flyin
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
> MRP wrote:
> > Hey Chris,
> > Have you ever found anything to replace your Bellanca?
>
> Hey Mark!
> Good to hear from you. I didn't know you were still around and on the
> list. I made the S.C. flyin, but missed last year. Just a bit too much
> trauma and too few $$$ available.
> Yes, I did acquire a new project/airplane - take a look at:
> http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/
> and tell me what you think.
>
> cheers
> chris
>
>
Message 6
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
nico css 2 wrote:
> What a nice project, Chris. It didn't help the other folks that it was
> located next to a grave yard either, huh?
Thanks Nico. This bird has really turned out to be an enjoyable
ownership experience. She's just treating me good, being very reliable,
and also economical at the same time.
You noticed the graves eh? :-) Kind of a strange location wasn't it?
chris
do not archive
Message 7
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--> Commander-List message posted by: MRP <mrp37@mindspring.com>
Chris,
All I can say is WOW!, but that doesn't quite cut it. AWESOME job!
The Fly-in forms are on my desk, and will go out today.
Jim, what's the count so far?
Mark
Message 8
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
MRP wrote:
> All I can say is WOW!, but that doesn't quite cut it. AWESOME job!
Thanks for the kind words Mark. I still have a lot of work to do, but
my goal is to get this airplane into better condition than it was the
day it left the factory. We've just about got it to "mechanically
perfect", but I ran out of $$$ before I could get the interior done and
all the avionics upgrades I wanted complete. One step at a time, right?
So, if I make the fly-in, I'm not going to be shunned for flying
something other than a Commander, right? :-)
chris
do not archive
Message 9
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Chris,
I have a bit of time in an Aztec, but not the older models. I did my ME on
an Apache, which crashed a week after I got my ticket, nearly killing the
instructor and the student. What I remember is that the later model Aztecs
had quite a pitch down when lowering the flaps and I always lowered the
flaps incrementally alternated with nose up trims. I cannot remember
whether the Apache had the same thing. Does the short-nose Aztec do the same
thing?
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: flyin
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
> nico css 2 wrote:
> > What a nice project, Chris. It didn't help the other folks that it was
> > located next to a grave yard either, huh?
>
> Thanks Nico. This bird has really turned out to be an enjoyable
> ownership experience. She's just treating me good, being very reliable,
> and also economical at the same time.
> You noticed the graves eh? :-) Kind of a strange location wasn't it?
>
> chris
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
nico css wrote:
> What I remember is that the later model Aztecs
> had quite a pitch down when lowering the flaps and I always lowered the
> flaps incrementally alternated with nose up trims. I cannot remember
> whether the Apache had the same thing. Does the short-nose Aztec do the same
> thing?
I can't say for certain about the plain Apache, but I can confirm that
the pitch change on my bird is quite pronounced. It's about the only
bad habit that the plane has, but you definitly need to be ready on the
trim handle when you toss those flaps out. I do the same "stepped"
thing with the flaps and rarely use more than 1/2 flaps for landing.
According to the service/parts books I have, the later Aztecs have a
spring system which ties the flap torque tube to the elevator controls -
I assume to minimize the effect. Never flown one like that though.
chris
do not archive
Message 11
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--> Commander-List message posted by: RnJThompson@aol.com
Chris,
Piper build fine aircraft.
Can not say the same for Cessna
I WOULD RATHER PUSH MY AERO COMMANDER THAN FLY A CESSNA!
Oops
( I own a Cessna)
Enough of that.
Back on the issue of noise.
I have teamed up with one of the formost experts in this field. we have
discovered that there are some glaring deficiencies in the test regimes of your
beloved FAA and others.
I am being forced to test my airplane to ICAO Annex 16 Chapter 6 regulations.
The main problem that has arisen is exactly what configuration the aircaft
has to be in .
The interesting thing is that our noise regulator Airservices have put
forward a set of parameters that they will accept. Our aircraft regulator CASA
has
decreed that the flight profile that the noise boys require is ILLEGAL interms
of Australian legislation. So I am beginning to enjoy all of this. It is
unusual to have the regulator on my side for once.
I will keep you all posted on events.
One thing that will happen is that the aircraft will be tested and certified
to be compliant in accordance with the ICAO rules.
I am going to make this information and all test results availiable to all of
you and to TCAC. So if anyone has this problem in the future you will have up
to date data to fight with.
Regards
Richard
Message 12
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--> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
Folks,
Just adding a little bit to Richard's noise story, in fact what the noise
nazi's want is the aircraft to be operated outside the FAA AFM Operating
Limitations, given that such tests were completed in this fashion, the test
results would be evidence for a charge of reckless and negligent operation
of the aircraft.
"Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
ZK-DCF
At 08:49 25/06/2004, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: RnJThompson@aol.com
>
>Chris,
>
>Piper build fine aircraft.
>Can not say the same for Cessna
>
>I WOULD RATHER PUSH MY AERO COMMANDER THAN FLY A CESSNA!
>
>Oops
>( I own a Cessna)
>
>Enough of that.
>Back on the issue of noise.
>I have teamed up with one of the formost experts in this field. we have
>discovered that there are some glaring deficiencies in the test regimes of
>your
>beloved FAA and others.
>I am being forced to test my airplane to ICAO Annex 16 Chapter 6 regulations.
>The main problem that has arisen is exactly what configuration the aircaft
>has to be in .
>The interesting thing is that our noise regulator Airservices have put
>forward a set of parameters that they will accept. Our aircraft regulator
>CASA has
>decreed that the flight profile that the noise boys require is ILLEGAL
>interms
>of Australian legislation. So I am beginning to enjoy all of this. It is
>unusual to have the regulator on my side for once.
>
>I will keep you all posted on events.
>One thing that will happen is that the aircraft will be tested and certified
>to be compliant in accordance with the ICAO rules.
>
>I am going to make this information and all test results availiable to all of
>you and to TCAC. So if anyone has this problem in the future you will have up
>to date data to fight with.
>
>Regards
>Richard
>
>
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Message 13
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 6/24/2004 4:36:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au writes:
"Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"
AMEN!! jb
Message 14
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 6/24/2004 9:07:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
mrp37@mindspring.com writes:
The Fly-in forms are on my desk, and will go out today.
Jim, what's the count so far?
We are approaching 30!! This is by far the most I have had registered at
this early time. This should be a GREAT flyin. Hope you can make it!! Is a
Commander in your future?? I know of a guy who might be interested in you
T-210. jb
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