---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/02/04: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:01 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (MASON Chevaillier) 2. 09:15 AM - Official Usage Guideline (Jim Hasler) 3. 09:31 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Phil Stubbs) 4. 09:45 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline (Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)) 5. 10:11 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline (Tom Fisher) 6. 10:23 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline (Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)) 7. 10:29 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline (nico css) 8. 11:02 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline (MASON Chevaillier) 9. 11:10 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline (Matt Dralle) 10. 11:58 AM - Re: Official Usage Guideline (Bill Bow) 11. 02:06 PM - 5606 (Chris Schuermann) 12. 04:53 PM - Re: 5606 (CloudCraft@aol.com) 13. 05:28 PM - Re: 5606 (Chris Schuermann) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:02 AM PST US From: "MASON Chevaillier" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" it seems to me that the members of the commander list are adult enough to set there own guide lines for communication. if we are not then we are indeed in trouble. mason chevaillier 817-877-4977 >From: Matt Dralle >Reply-To: commander-list@matronics.com >To: commander-list@matronics.com >Subject: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly >Posting] >Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 23:38:01 -0700 > >--> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > >Dear Lister, > >Please read over the Commander-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete >Commander-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the >following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html > >Thank you, > >Matt Dralle >Matronics Email List Administrator > > >****************************************************************************** > Commander-List Usage Guidelines >****************************************************************************** > >The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List. >You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. >Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result >in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > >Commander-List Policy Statement > >The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for >things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals >are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver >high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie >among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals >requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of >the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise >and > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > >------- > > >[This is an automated posting.] > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:59 AM PST US From: "Jim Hasler" Subject: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Hasler" As a new member you can take or leave what I have to say as I may not have the right experience with the group to make an informed response to what constitutes what should or should not be posted on our chat-site. However=85 It would seem to me that a member that has a service to offer the other members, one of which we can all derive a benefit from if we so choose to partake of this service and are willing to pay for that service, said member should be able to post that schedule of service for the other members to review if indeed that service is offered at an irregular basis. This is especially true for those services/products which promote safety in flight and improved performance of an aircraft. After all, we are asked when joining the Twin Commander Flight Group if in fact we have a =93service or discount=94 for the other members which can be posted in the membership listing. Hope to see you all in Kansas City in September. Jim Hasler JHasler@gte.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:56 AM PST US From: "Phil Stubbs" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] --> Commander-List message posted by: "Phil Stubbs" I think the founding fathers showed great wisdom by including free speech in the official usage guidelines for the United States. What kind of country, or list, would we have without it. Knowledge is power. Phil > [Original Message] > From: Matt Dralle > To: > Date: 8/2/2004 2:38:04 AM > Subject: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > Dear Lister, > > Please read over the Commander-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete > Commander-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the > following URL: > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html > > Thank you, > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > **************************************************************************** ** > Commander-List Usage Guidelines > **************************************************************************** ** > > The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List. > You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. > Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result > in the removal of the subscribers from the List. > > > Commander-List Policy Statement > > The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for > things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals > are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver > high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie > among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals > requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of > the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: > > > - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit > posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long > lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. > > - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be > relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. > > - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive > that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and > terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and > responses. > > - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, > aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line > about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid > bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary > space in the archive. > > - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is > easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the > web page or FAQ first. > > - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of > your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. > > - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your > response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the > reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that > quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive > can not be overstated! > > - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT > then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the > "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your > response to the original poster. You might have to actively address > your response with the original poster's email address. > > - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something > to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I > agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent > to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. > > - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to > comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly > contribute something valuable. > > - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone > polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack > other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously > controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that > will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. > > ------- > > > [This is an automated posting.] > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" --> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" I can't believe you guys are making an issue of this. It is common "Netiquette" for mailing list managers to post the guidelines for their mailing lists from time to time. They own the list and they are permitting to make the rules. Some lists I belong to mail a similar notice on the first day of each month, and even supply my password to their archives as a courtesy to forgetful listmembers. -- Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet St. Louis, Missouri USA http://homepage.mac.com/deneals ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:45 AM PST US From: "Tom Fisher" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" No one is making "an issue" out of this. One member accidentally posted something that he intended to go privately and he apologized for doing so. I responded that the topic he was talking about was beneficial to other members and I encouraged him to continue posting these types of Emails. Other members agreed and more still are adding their opinions, great!, that is what forums are all about. I do not see anyone objecting to staying within the guidelines. Tom F. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" > > I can't believe you guys are making an issue of this. > > It is common "Netiquette" for mailing list managers to post the guidelines > for their mailing lists from time to time. > > They own the list and they are permitting to make the rules. > > Some lists I belong to mail a similar notice on the first day of each month, > and even supply my password to their archives as a courtesy to forgetful > listmembers. > > > -- > Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet > St. Louis, Missouri USA > > http://homepage.mac.com/deneals > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" --> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" On 8/2/04 12:10, "Tom Fisher" wrote: > One member accidentally posted something that he intended to go privately > and he apologized for doing so. I guess I missed that part. DS ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:28 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" I believe that is a healthy practice and encouragement of the members to others is also healthy Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Hasler" Subject: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Hasler" > > As a new member you can take or leave what I have to say as > I may not have the right experience with the group to make an informed > response to what constitutes what should or should not be posted on our > chat-site. However=85 > > It would seem to me that a member that has a service to offer the other > members, one of which we can all derive a benefit from if we so choose > to partake of this service and are willing to pay for that service, said > member should be able to post that schedule of service for the other > members to review if indeed that service is offered at an irregular > basis. This is especially true for those services/products which promote > safety in flight and improved performance of an aircraft. After all, we > are asked when joining the Twin Commander Flight Group if in fact we > have a =93service or discount=94 for the other members which can be posted > in the membership listing. > > Hope to see you all in Kansas City in September. > > Jim Hasler > JHasler@gte.net > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:41 AM PST US From: "MASON Chevaillier" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" he should not have to appoligize for trying to help anyone in commander land. mason >From: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" >Reply-To: commander-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline >Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:21:57 -0500 > >--> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" > > >On 8/2/04 12:10, "Tom Fisher" wrote: > > > One member accidentally posted something that he intended to go >privately > > and he apologized for doing so. > >I guess I missed that part. > > >DS > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:10:22 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Hello Everyone, Its certainly not my intent to tick anyone off with the OUG. The monthly posting is something I've done on the Lists for years, and serves as a simple reminder that there are a few etiquette rules on the List. They are not directed at anyone specifically at the time they are posted, so don't let your conscious get the better of you! :-) Matt Dralle Matronics Email Admin. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:52 AM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Well this has sparked more discussion than we have had on this list in a year. Wish it was something to do with the planes we own. bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Dralle" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline > --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle > > > Hello Everyone, > > Its certainly not my intent to tick anyone off with the OUG. The monthly > posting is something I've done on the Lists for years, and serves as a > simple reminder that there are a few etiquette rules on the List. They are > not directed at anyone specifically at the time they are posted, so don't > let your conscious get the better of you! :-) > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email Admin. > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email > http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:46 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Commander-List: 5606 --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann Bill Bow wrote: > Well this has sparked more discussion than we have had on this list in a > year. Wish it was something to do with the planes we own. Hey, I try to toss a bone out into the yard from time to time just so we'll have something to chew on. How about this for a potential topic: I HATE MIL5606 hydraulic fluid. It gets gooey and nasty apparently after exposure to air. Is there anything that's approved as a better substitute? I'd think that many of the modern synthetic oils would work better.... JB, when we gonna see some updates on the web site? How about posting the fly-in information there? Chris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:09 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: 5606 --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 02-Aug-04 14:07:24 Pacific Daylight Time, cschuerm@cox.net writes: > How about this for a potential topic: I HATE MIL5606 hydraulic fluid. > It gets gooey and nasty apparently after exposure to air. Is there > anything that's approved as a better substitute? I'd think that many of > the modern synthetic oils would work better.... > What? A TPE-331 powered ice cream maker wasn't on topic? OK, then. How do you feel about MIL 83282? It's approved for MIL 5606 applications, but it properties are so close that it may not fix your sticky wickett. Besides, Chris, if we stopped using 5606, Commanders wouldn't smell the way they do. Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:47 PM PST US From: Chris Schuermann Subject: Re: Commander-List: 5606 --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann CloudCraft@aol.com wrote: > OK, then. How do you feel about MIL 83282? It's approved for MIL 5606 > applications, but it properties are so close that it may not fix your sticky > wickett. Thanks for sending me off on an interesting trek Keith! I've been studying this topic for the last hour and have interesting stuff to report. I had NO idea how many airplanes had burned to the ground due to 5606 fires! That stuff has a flash point of only 219 degrees F. You know how hot a brake disk gets after landing....sometime glowing orange on a Commander. A little leak in a brake caliper and 5606 also sustains combustion once ignited. The military got tired of burning airplanes and had several new fluids developed - one of which is 83282. The flash point is 458 degrees and it's self-extinguishing. According to Shell Petroleum, they're entirely interchangable as well even though the 83282 is synthetic. Yup, I think I'll be changing fluids. Not keen on all that highly flamable fluid circulating through my airplane and ending up just by my right knee above the electrical buss! Specs from Shell for anyone interested: http://193.113.209.166/aeroshell/aeroshellhydraulicfluids.pdf cheers, Chris