Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:20 AM - NBAA Convention Las Vegas, Oct 12-14 (George J. Yundt III)
2. 10:24 AM - NBAA Convention Las Vegas, Oct 12-14 (George J. Yundt III)
3. 10:26 AM - Re: Re: Prayer (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
4. 10:27 AM - Re: NBAA Convention Las Vegas, Oct 12-14 (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
5. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (Bobby Sather)
6. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (Martini Luc J.R.)
7. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (nico css)
8. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (Bobby Sather)
9. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
10. 07:43 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (Martini Luc J.R.)
11. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (William Boelte)
12. 08:38 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (Bobby Sather)
13. 09:55 PM - Re: Re: Prayer (nico css)
14. 10:25 PM - Oh come on, Martini. (nico css)
15. 10:42 PM - Re: Oh come on, Martini. (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | NBAA Convention Las Vegas, Oct 12-14 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "George J. Yundt III" <yundt@speakeasy.net>
I will be at NBAA for the entire week. As I am a "worker bee" for my
company, please drop by and see me (and some very cool new Falcon Jets) at
the Falcon Jet Static Display on Tuesday AM until noon, or in the North
Convention Hall, Booth #3634, all day Wednesday and all day Thursday. We
will have the new EASy cockpit on display for the Falcon 900EX and 2000EX,
as well as detailed info on the new 7X, the first Fly by Wire corporate
aircraft (first flight this Spring) That's my post assignment!
Also, anyone interested in a FREE breakfast and a wonderful morning program,
that ends just as the Hall omens up, feel free to come to the Dassault
Family Breakfast at the Hilton Hotel Ballroom (next door to the Convention
Center) at 7:15 AM Wednesday. While passes were requested, we always have
ample room for walk-ins and never turn anyone away. (tell anyone who asks
that you are my guest...but no one will bother!)
George J. Yundt III
Dassault Falcon Jet Corp.
Cell Phone while in LAS: 312-371-7551
Twin Commander 685, N74CP Owner
george.yundt@falconjet.com
http://www.falconjet.com
////////////////////////////////////////////////
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 10/08/04: 1
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 05:46:37 PM PST US
From: CloudCraft@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 07-Oct-04 22:05:17 Pacific Daylight Time,
tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net writes:
> Any one going to NBAA this year?
> I will be there starting next Tuesday.
> Wing Commander, Will you be in Las Vegas that week?
>
I pray that I don't have to fly that week.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Message 2
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| Subject: | NBAA Convention Las Vegas, Oct 12-14 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "George J. Yundt III" <yundt@speakeasy.net>
I will be at NBAA for the entire week. As I am a "worker bee" for my
company, please drop by and see me (and some very cool new Falcon Jets) at
the Falcon Jet Static Display on Tuesday AM until noon, or in the North
Convention Hall, Booth #3634, all day Wednesday and all day Thursday. We
will have the new EASy cockpit on display for the Falcon 900EX and 2000EX,
as well as detailed info on the new 7X, the first Fly by Wire corporate
aircraft (first flight this Spring) That's my post assignment!
Also, anyone interested in a FREE breakfast and a wonderful morning program,
that ends just as the Hall omens up, feel free to come to the Dassault
Family Breakfast at the Hilton Hotel Ballroom (next door to the Convention
Center) at 7:15 AM Wednesday. While passes were requested, we always have
ample room for walk-ins and never turn anyone away. (tell anyone who asks
that you are my guest...but no one will bother!)
George J. Yundt III
Dassault Falcon Jet Corp.
Cell Phone while in LAS: 312-371-7551
Twin Commander 685, N74CP Owner
george.yundt@falconjet.com
http://www.falconjet.com
////////////////////////////////////////////////
================================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
================================================
Commander-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 10/08/04: 1
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 05:46:37 PM PST US
From: CloudCraft@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 07-Oct-04 22:05:17 Pacific Daylight Time,
tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net writes:
> Any one going to NBAA this year?
> I will be there starting next Tuesday.
> Wing Commander, Will you be in Las Vegas that week?
>
I pray that I don't have to fly that week.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Message 3
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:13:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
rocket@swmrmc.org writes:
To my knowledge this is an aviation (twin commander) oriented list.
Religion belongs in the heart, the home, and church. Not on this list.
Not everyone who peruses this forum is a Christian and not everyone is as
devoutly religious as some.
This most recent diatribe about a Christian prater group is innappropriate
and offensive.
Dave
I missed the original post (Was doing a prey-buy on a 560F) I PRAY EVER
TIME I FLY, EVERY TIME. I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU DO TOO. If anyone on this list
is in the least offended by the mention of prayer, I suggest you find another
aviation list. You are not required to accept any other opinion, but when
it comes to prayer, you would be strongly advised to do so, it works. God
Bless Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: NBAA Convention Las Vegas, Oct 12-14 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 10/9/2004 10:25:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
yundt@speakeasy.net writes:
I will be at NBAA for the entire week.
HI GEORGE!! I really enjoyed seeing you again at this years flyin, thanks
for coming!! Have a great week a NBAA jb
Message 5
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
God belongs in all places and lest you forget, You would not be here if not
for God. Better take him with your where ever you go. You will probably
need him. Can't humble your self to that fact. Well hang around awhile and
he'll help you.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:13:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> rocket@swmrmc.org writes:
>
>
> To my knowledge this is an aviation (twin commander) oriented list.
>
> Religion belongs in the heart, the home, and church. Not on this list.
>
> Not everyone who peruses this forum is a Christian and not everyone is as
> devoutly religious as some.
>
> This most recent diatribe about a Christian prater group is
innappropriate
> and offensive.
>
> Dave
>
>
> I missed the original post (Was doing a prey-buy on a 560F) I PRAY EVER
> TIME I FLY, EVERY TIME. I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU DO TOO. If anyone on
this list
> is in the least offended by the mention of prayer, I suggest you find
another
> aviation list. You are not required to accept any other opinion, but
when
> it comes to prayer, you would be strongly advised to do so, it works.
God
> Bless Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
Message 6
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil@comcast.net>
I'll second that motion that this religious BS is inappropriate in this
group which is supposed to be aircraft oriented, not politically or
religiously.
The atheist, agnostics and those you regard as heathens seem to get along
just fine in this world without your version of God or Religion, and have
done so for far longer than your version of God and Religion has been
around; and lest you forget, if science was left in the hand of your
religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
center of the universe; so take it to your church where it belongs and lets
get back to airplanes!
Luc Martini
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
>
> God belongs in all places and lest you forget, You would not be here if
> not
> for God. Better take him with your where ever you go. You will probably
> need him. Can't humble your self to that fact. Well hang around awhile
> and
> he'll help you.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
>> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:13:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>> rocket@swmrmc.org writes:
>>
>>
>> To my knowledge this is an aviation (twin commander) oriented list.
>>
>> Religion belongs in the heart, the home, and church. Not on this list.
>>
>> Not everyone who peruses this forum is a Christian and not everyone is
>> as
>> devoutly religious as some.
>>
>> This most recent diatribe about a Christian prater group is
> innappropriate
>> and offensive.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> I missed the original post (Was doing a prey-buy on a 560F) I PRAY EVER
>> TIME I FLY, EVERY TIME. I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU DO TOO. If anyone on
> this list
>> is in the least offended by the mention of prayer, I suggest you find
> another
>> aviation list. You are not required to accept any other opinion, but
> when
>> it comes to prayer, you would be strongly advised to do so, it works.
> God
>> Bless Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
You mean the earth is not flat?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R."
<martinil@comcast.net>
>
> I'll second that motion that this religious BS is inappropriate in this
> group which is supposed to be aircraft oriented, not politically or
> religiously.
> The atheist, agnostics and those you regard as heathens seem to get along
> just fine in this world without your version of God or Religion, and have
> done so for far longer than your version of God and Religion has been
> around; and lest you forget, if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
> center of the universe; so take it to your church where it belongs and
lets
> get back to airplanes!
>
> Luc Martini
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather"
<sather@charter.net>
> >
> > God belongs in all places and lest you forget, You would not be here if
> > not
> > for God. Better take him with your where ever you go. You will
probably
> > need him. Can't humble your self to that fact. Well hang around awhile
> > and
> > he'll help you.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> >
> >
> >> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:13:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >> rocket@swmrmc.org writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> To my knowledge this is an aviation (twin commander) oriented list.
> >>
> >> Religion belongs in the heart, the home, and church. Not on this list.
> >>
> >> Not everyone who peruses this forum is a Christian and not everyone is
> >> as
> >> devoutly religious as some.
> >>
> >> This most recent diatribe about a Christian prater group is
> > innappropriate
> >> and offensive.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> I missed the original post (Was doing a prey-buy on a 560F) I PRAY
EVER
> >> TIME I FLY, EVERY TIME. I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU DO TOO. If anyone on
> > this list
> >> is in the least offended by the mention of prayer, I suggest you find
> > another
> >> aviation list. You are not required to accept any other opinion, but
> > when
> >> it comes to prayer, you would be strongly advised to do so, it works.
> > God
> >> Bless Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
Not going too. How does that hit you Martoni
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R."
<martinil@comcast.net>
>
> I'll second that motion that this religious BS is inappropriate in this
> group which is supposed to be aircraft oriented, not politically or
> religiously.
> The atheist, agnostics and those you regard as heathens seem to get along
> just fine in this world without your version of God or Religion, and have
> done so for far longer than your version of God and Religion has been
> around; and lest you forget, if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
> center of the universe; so take it to your church where it belongs and
lets
> get back to airplanes!
>
> Luc Martini
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather"
<sather@charter.net>
> >
> > God belongs in all places and lest you forget, You would not be here if
> > not
> > for God. Better take him with your where ever you go. You will
probably
> > need him. Can't humble your self to that fact. Well hang around awhile
> > and
> > he'll help you.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> >
> >
> >> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 10/7/2004 8:13:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> >> rocket@swmrmc.org writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> To my knowledge this is an aviation (twin commander) oriented list.
> >>
> >> Religion belongs in the heart, the home, and church. Not on this list.
> >>
> >> Not everyone who peruses this forum is a Christian and not everyone is
> >> as
> >> devoutly religious as some.
> >>
> >> This most recent diatribe about a Christian prater group is
> > innappropriate
> >> and offensive.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> I missed the original post (Was doing a prey-buy on a 560F) I PRAY
EVER
> >> TIME I FLY, EVERY TIME. I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU DO TOO. If anyone on
> > this list
> >> is in the least offended by the mention of prayer, I suggest you find
> > another
> >> aviation list. You are not required to accept any other opinion, but
> > when
> >> it comes to prayer, you would be strongly advised to do so, it works.
> > God
> >> Bless Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
martinil@comcast.net writes:
if science was left in the hand of your
religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
center of the universe;
Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science. The
scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth" Hardly
flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It goes on
the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't that
how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right?? Sorry to
hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information here.
Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
Message 10
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil@comcast.net>
Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those in
"time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet the
Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run thought
with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered universe"
etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently, I
can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers, haven't
got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the words
of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes back
only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each by
bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine engineering,
and let's see gets to hell first.
Martini
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> martinil@comcast.net writes:
>
> if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
> center of the universe;
>
>
> Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
> The
> scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth" Hardly
> flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> goes on
> the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
> that
> how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> Sorry to
> hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
> here.
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
>
Message 11
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "William Boelte" <n55bz@cox-internet.com>
Vaya con Dios.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martini
Luc J.R.
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R."
<martinil@comcast.net>
Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those
in
"time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
the
Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
thought
with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
universe"
etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently,
I
can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
haven't
got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
words
of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes
back
only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each
by
bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine
engineering,
and let's see gets to hell first.
Martini
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> martinil@comcast.net writes:
>
> if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
the
> center of the universe;
>
>
> Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with
science.
> The
> scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
Hardly
> flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> goes on
> the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow,
isn't
> that
> how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> Sorry to
> hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great
information
> here.
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 12
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bobby Sather" <sather@charter.net>
I call B***S***. If you are all that you say you are. How do you think you
got here in the first place. Did buzzard crap you on a rock and the sun
hatch you. I think you are a legend in your own mind. I have faith that you
will know in the end and then it will be to late for you. Where do you
think this all came from. I fine man with your intelligence should have an
answer for that with the superb education you say you have. It always
amazes me that a person can have all the intelligence in the world and still
not have brain one. I think you may be caught up in the big me me me I I I
syndrome. Your me me me I I I last only as long as the Supreme God will
allow. I'll keep my eye open for your flame out. Good Luck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R."
<martinil@comcast.net>
>
> Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
> By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
> which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those in
> "time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
the
> Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
thought
> with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
> opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
universe"
> etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently, I
> can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
haven't
> got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
> sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
> reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
words
> of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes back
> only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each by
> bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
> And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine engineering,
> and let's see gets to hell first.
>
> Martini
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > martinil@comcast.net writes:
> >
> > if science was left in the hand of your
> > religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
the
> > center of the universe;
> >
> >
> > Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
> > The
> > scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
Hardly
> > flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> > goes on
> > the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
> > that
> > how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> > Sorry to
> > hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
> > here.
> > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
It's misconceptions that warps the truth.
----- Original Message -----
From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> martinil@comcast.net writes:
>
> if science was left in the hand of your
> religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and the
> center of the universe;
>
>
> Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
The
> scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth" Hardly
> flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
goes on
> the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
that
> how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
Sorry to
> hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
here.
> Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Oh come on, Martini. |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Oh come on, Martini.
If you want to leave, it would be a pity but that's your privilege Let's
just put some facts on the table before you do so, ok? If you don't believe
what the Bible says, that's fine, and getting all hot under the collar,
insulting folks, will not bring anyone anywhere. This is why I believe what
the Bible teaches, for what it is worth.
We study the scriptures in the ancient languages, Hebrew and Greek, and
verify and alter what the translations say about it. If one would only
believe what is taught in English, it would not necessarily alter the
overall doctrine, but literary unity of what was written is almost always
lost. You may ask why is the literary unity important? It is for the very
sake of proving that the scriptures are true. Without this we are reduced to
supernatural dogma and you may, rightly so, believe that we are a bunch of
bigots. However, if you look at the principles, you will see that its
testimony is true, even for a rational scrutiny.
This is what I mean:
There are five principles upon which the interpretation (or call it belief)
of the scriptures rest:
1. The testimony of two or more witnesses.
2. Prophecy and outcome.
3. The thread of salvation history running throughout the entire book.
4. Miracles that were testified that happened.
5. Consistent signs and metaphors.
It is a lengthy lecture to explain all five principles in detail, with which
I will not bore you. Suffice to briefly summarize them as follows, so that
you may grasp the concept that Christians and Jews have very good, solid
reasons for believing as they do.
1. Nowhere, ever, is there any declaration of doctrine that is not verified
by other, independent witnesses. (Granted, these witnesses are all found in
the Bible, but I will come to that in point 5.) Our society and legal system
rely heavily on witnesses; the Bible does the same thing.
2. If a someone foretells that something will happen, and it happens exactly
in that manner, then such a person is called a prophet. The difference
between accurately forecasting something (which appears to be the same thing
as prophecy) and being a prophet in Biblical terms is that forecasting is a
process of deductive reasoning, which cannot be 100% accurate, while
Biblical prophecy by true prophets are error free. That sets them apart from
other self-declared prophets in history.
3. The scriptures speak consistently, from the very beginning to the very
end, about one thing in principle and one thing only, and that is that God
gathers for himself a people who will glorify him out of their own free
will, forever. Any deviation from that is false, such as the teachings of
Islam, the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormons, and the Jehovah's Witnesses.
They, and many others, are in varying degrees, guilty of adding to or
subtracting from what is writing in the scriptures and it is clearly
discernable if one cares to look at the original languages also.
4. Miracles are the most difficult thing to explain and their occurrences
are based upon all the points mentioned. It will need more time and space
that we have here to do justice to the topic.
5. In the original languages, there is a diverse, yet brilliant poetry and
imagery that fits the same template throughout the Bible. Any falsification,
regardless of how minute, is immediately discernable. Witnesses testify in a
particular manner, back then and even today. It is common practice for a
linguist to identify whether something was written by one person, or whether
another tampered with the writing or added to it. It is a scientific process
that is used in our courts today. So, we are able to determine that the
different witnesses actually wrote these accounts of what they saw, hear,
and experienced. The fact that the scriptures were not written by one person
or a committee, is an established fact, which makes the testimony of it
indisputable.
The Bible teaches a unique doctrine; the only one that admonishes its
proponents to not believe slavishly, but go and find out whether what it
says is true. If one finds that it is not true, the Gospel demands that you
leave but if you find it is true, it is equally adamant that you should
believe what it says. The same principle goes for the "flat earth" routine.
If you stray above 1,500' evidence that the earth is flat begins to
disappear. If you don't want to go high enough to observe the truth, that's
ok, but if you do, whether you are at ground level or not, you are compelled
to believe.
So, Martini, we are not at all bigots. We have good reason to believe what
the scriptures teach. There are many hypocrites among us and they do not
care if they kill others, I am referring to the terrible things that have
been done in Christ's name. Surely, that is not Christianity. Just as I know
what the Quran says and from that can make reasonable predictions about how
a Muslim would interact with me, so I am able to categorically say that
Christians are humble, honest folks, based on what the Bible teaches. Those
who act outside of what the Bible teaches cannot be called Christians and
they act contrary to Christ's teachings. However, having said that, we also
acknowledge that we are loaded down with faults and sin, which could cause
others on the outside to believe that we are a bunch of hypocrites.
Stay with the list if you wish, we are just a happy bunch who likes to talk
about what is dear to us. Aviation is one of them, Commanders is another.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R."
<martinil@comcast.net>
>
> Glad to oblige leaving such a bigoted group.
> By for further enlightenment... are the "scriptures" y you refer to (of
> which there were at least 3 different versions), were right, but those in
> "time and place" weren't as enlightened as you are 2000 years later; yet
the
> Peer Group sought fit to burn at the stake, asunder on the rack, run
thought
> with red hot irons, etc. etc. tens of thousands of those that had other
> opinions on such subjects as the "flat earth" the "earth centered
universe"
> etc. etc. And, as a linguist who speaks 7 foreign languages fluently, I
> can give expert opinion, that YOU and most likely any of your peers,
haven't
> got a clue what those scriptures actually say, much less what the
> sociological context of the words were; not to mention that what you are
> reading (in Elizabethan English - and you no doubt don't know half the
words
> of that although it is the basis of the language you speak that goes back
> only about 150 years), was the product of at least 3 translations, each by
> bigots with unmistakable agendas.... So BELIEVE and DREAM on!
> And by all means pray rather than believe in science and fine engineering,
> and let's see gets to hell first.
>
> Martini
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <YOURTCFG@aol.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: re: Prayer
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/9/2004 1:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > martinil@comcast.net writes:
> >
> > if science was left in the hand of your
> > religious peers, you would still believe that the earth was flat and
the
> > center of the universe;
> >
> >
> > Actually that is not true. The Bible lines up perfectly with science.
> > The
> > scriptures state that the "God sits above the sphere of the earth"
Hardly
> > flat. Infact, Columbus sailed because he read and believed that. It
> > goes on
> > the state that "The earth hangs as if suspended by nothing" Wow, isn't
> > that
> > how it really looks. I wonder how the Bible scholars got it right??
> > Sorry to
> > hear you will be leaving the list, there is a lot of great information
> > here.
> > Jim Metzger, Director, Twin Commander Flight Group
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oh come on, Martini. |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 10/9/2004 10:26:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:
Stay with the list if you wish, we are just a happy bunch who likes to talk
about what is dear to us. Aviation is one of them, Commanders is another.
THANKS NICO....That was amazing!! How is you Commander doing these days??
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