---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/01/04: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:05 AM - Oh So Many Great Comments... (Matt Dralle) 2. 12:09 PM - Fw: Fw: Spacecraft (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 3. 11:38 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:54 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Oh So Many Great Comments... --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, As I write this its still November 30th so technically the List Fund Raiser is still underway! :-) I've gotten so many nice comments from Listers in the last couple of days along with their Contributions that I just had to share them with the Lists. Guys, I really appreciate the kind words and great support that has come in the last few days. If you've been meaning to support your Lists this month but have just been putting it off until the last absolute minute, now's a perfect time to make that Contribution! http://www.matronics.com/contribution A special thank you to everyone that has already shown their support. I'm compiling the List of Contributors and will post it in a couple days. In the meantime, please read over some of the nice things people have been saying about the List along with their Contribution... Thank you!!! Matt Dralle List Administrator -------------- A Ton More Nice Comments ---------------- The number of times I've used the list (especially the archives) to answer a question I have definitely makes my contribution worth it. Jordan G. This list sure paves the way to a smoother building process. Tim B. Really enjoy the list and look forward to it every day. Darren F. Love the list, great diversion at work... Rich C. The [List] community much appreciates your well run list server. Donald K. Good list. Graham H. ...a wonderful service! Jon C. I should be building when I'm reading the list but I have to keep up with what's going on. Jerry I. ...fills in the gap between building and flying. Jerry B. It's how I start my day. Randy R. Keep up the this GREAT resource. Tom H. Keeps me in the loop while my airplane is down for a while. Tim G. wonderful service... Andrew J. ...an indispensable tool in building my airplane. Mark K. ...such a great service. Rex S. I'm hooked. Jerry I. [The List] makes building a lot easier and more fun! Eugene H. Great list! Sam P. Its nice to be ad free... Terry S. Its an excellent list. Jim G. What a tremendous resource... Bob C. A great help and an excellent service. Darren F. Great service... Patrick F. I am an information junkie, and the list gives me my fix every day! Mark S. Much useful information is exchanged. Graham H. An exceptional resource... Neal G. This list is a valuable tool for me. Grant F. ...such a valuable resource. Kevin B. Really enjoy the List... Michael W. ...such a great tool! John L. I have been done building my plane for three years now. I still get valuable information from this List. Don N. Better than the soaps at times! Jerry I. Thanks for a huge archive of information. Paul D. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:24 PM PST US From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" "commander-list" , "DAN BRUHL" , "JOE PACE" , "john chambers" , "john MCNULTY" , "MOE MILLS" , "SCOTT PARKER" , "TROY WELCH" , "W. Kent Riley" Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Fw: Spacecraft Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:08:53 -0600 --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" ----- Original Message ----- From: JOE BOND Subject: Fwd: Fw: Spacecraft --- Jpsullivan7@aol.com wrote: > From: Jpsullivan7@aol.com > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 21:54:27 EST > Subject: Fwd: Fw: Spacecraft > To: WFBalas@aol.com, wjendres@earthlink.net, > RJLAVENDER@PRODIGY.NET, > OutlawAv@aol.com, PAT.MCBRIDE@VERIZON.NET, > phreatdawg@yahoo.com, > S.BONNER@SBCGLOBAL.NET, > scottjoani@sbcglobal.net, SJROBERTS@FEDEX.COM, > DanMurphy07@aol.com, Fortflier@aol.com, > FRANKC@COX.NET, > FREDWHITNEY@SPRINTMAIL.COM, > GLENBOB1@YAHOO.COM, JOHNHATH@SBCGLOBAL.NET, > LTubor@aol.com, CRS98@OPTONLINE.NET, > b17drvr@earthlink.net, > B737JOCK@aol.com, BBATTLEY@CHARTER.NET, > BONDOUSA@YAHOO.COM, > michaelrees1@yahoo.com, > MIKEGRAHAM@HOUSTON.RR.COM > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > From: > > To: "Tom Simon" >, "Phil > Turnbull" >, > "Patrick A McBride" > >, > "Ken Lee" >, "Jim > Sullivan" >, > "Ian Moodie" >, "Graham" > >, > "Bradford" >, "Art > Pasquali" > > Subject: Fw: Spacecraft > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:53:34 -0600 > > > Compliments of Lou Lacy, one of our Capts....... > > Dale > > > I just had the extreme pleasure of speaking with > Mike Melvill > > yesterday, the pilot of SpaceShipOne's first two > flights above the > > Karman line of 100 km.MSL, and with his wife. He > gave a 45 minute > > presentation to the Aircraft Owners and Pilots > Association conference > > in Long Beach on Thursday, and got a > several-minute standing ovation. > > I was able to speak with him for a short while > after his talk. > > > Since he was speaking to pilots, he didn't have to > translate for the > > "general public" or pull many punches. He spent > almost half of his > > time going over the flight controls and the entire > cockpit layout > > inside of SpaceShipOne, explaining how it is > flown. I think this is > > the first time this has been explained publicly in > such detail, and it > > was amazing. There are actually four separate > flight regimes, and > > each is flown differently. Just after launch, it > flies like a piper > > cub, using a joystick and rudder pedals with > mechanical linkages to > > the controls (no hydraulic assists). When it goes > supersonic, the > > aerodynamic forces are too high to be able to move > the stick, and the > > controls are subject to flutter. So they use an > electrically powered > > trim system, flown using the "top hat" switch on > the joystick and a > > couple of grips on the arm rest of the pilot's > seat. (There are > > backup switches to the left of the instrument > panel, which had to be > > used on one flight.) This moves the entire > horizontal stabilizers, > > not just the elevons on the trailing edges. > Eventually, they get high > > enough and the air gets thin enough that they can > again use manual > > controls, although the response is totally > different than lower down. > > But that goes away as they exit the atmosphere; > the Reaction Control > > System nozzles are then used for maneuvering in > space. Coming back > > down, the pilot has to reverse the sequence. There > is no automated > > switchover of control systems; the pilot has to > remember to move from > > one system to the next at the right times. > > > The rudder pedals are not linked. Each controls > one of the two > > vertical stabilizer rudders separately. You can > push both rudder > > pedals at the same time, and get a fairly > effective speed brake, with > > both rudders canted outward. Push both fully > forward and they engage > > the wheel brakes. But these are not very effective > and are only > > really useful for steering input during rollout. > The real brake is on > > the nose skid: a piece of maple wood, with the > grain aligned down the > > centerline of the airplane. He said it was the > most effective braking > > material they could find. > > > Stephen, we talked about G forces on Tuesday, and > I got some of it > > wrong He says that he gets hit with about 3Gs > kicking him backwards > > as soon as he lights the rocket motor. He's > supersonic within about 9 > > seconds later. But he immediately starts to pull > up into an almost > > vertical climb. So he also gets over 4.3Gs > pushing him down into his > > seat just from that maneuver. The combined force > is "very stressful" > > and Mike says it's "important not to black out" at > that point. He's > > going 1880 knots straight up within 70 seconds. On > re-entry, the > > aircraft goes from being absolutely silent while > in space to > > generating a deafening roar as it hits the > atmosphere again. He's > > going about Mach 3.2 by that time, and has to > survive about 5.5Gs for > > over 30 seconds, and lesser G forces for longer > than that, as it slows > > back down. It sounds really intense, both as he > explains it and on > > the radio. > > > A couple of interesting side notes: SpaceShipOne > has a standard > > "N" registration number; but it is licensed as an > experimental "glider". > > Apparently there was a huge bureaucratic hassle > trying to license it > > as a rocket powered spacecraft, which they just > sidestepped by calling > > it a glider. I asked him if it had a yaw string; > he laughed and said > > that would have burned off. By the way, the > registration number is > > N328KF, where 328K is the number of Feet in 100km. > (White Knight is > > N318SL - Burt Rutan's 318th design.) > > > Mike says that the flight director system (called > a TINU) was > > developed completely in-house by a couple of > 28-year-old programmers, > > and is absolutely fantastic to fly. That's why > they don't need a yaw > > string. But I had heard over the radio that Brian > Binnie had > > re-booted the TINU just before the landing > approach during the X2 > > flight, and it took quite a while for it to come > back up. So I asked > > Mike what that was about. He says that during > re-entry, the TINU > > loses its GPS lock. So it keeps trying to go back > to catch up, > > re-interpolate and compensate for the missing > data, and this keeps it > > a little behind in its actual position > calculations. The pilot has no > > straight-ahead vision at all, so they have a real > issue landing: they > > can't see the runway! The way they do it is to fly > directly down the > > runway at 9000 feet; then they do a (military > style) break and fly a > > full 360 degree pattern right to the landing. The > TINU gives the > > pilot a "blue line" to follow and a target > airspeed (which produces a > > given rate of descent). If the pilot follows the > blue line, right to > > the break point and through the two 180 degree > turns, it will put him > > right onto the runway at what ever touchdown point > he selects. But > > the TINU has to be absolutely current when this is > going on. So at > > something above 15,000 feet they reboot the TINU > and get it re-synched > > with the GPS satellites again before setting up > for the landing! > > > He also talked in detail about the rocket motor, > and had photos of its > > insides after firing. The nozzle throat actually > ablates as the motor > > burns, enlarging the interior throat diameter as > the burn progresses. > > He described the problem they had on the June 21 > flight: The rocket > > motor nozzle was skewed by about =BD degree to one > side. This generated > > a surprisingly high lateral torque trying to turn > the aircraft. If it > > had been up or down pitch rather than lateral, the > controls could have > > handled it; but the lateral yawing forces were too > great for Mike to > > compensate as the atmosphere thinned. The result > was that he was > > pretty far off course. Mike says he reached > apogee, rolled the > > spacecraft over, and was surprised to see the > Palmdale VOR directly > > beneath him. That was 30 miles away from Mojave > and a long glide > > home. He says its amazing how fast a relatively > small deviation can > > produce large distances when you're going Mach 3! > > > For one of the static burn tests, they had fire > and safety crews all > > standing a mile away, ready to duck if anything > went wrong. In the > > middle of the test, Mike and Burt Rutan walked up > to the front of the > > motor assembly and felt the pressure vessel that > contains the N2O. > > Mike knew he was going to have this same thing > strapped onto his back > > soon, anyway, and he wanted to know how much it > vibrated, how hot it > > got, and how loud it was. It was deafening, > literally. It turns out > > that, with the nozzles they use at high altitudes, > it's actually not > > that noisy inside the spacecraft. But he still > wears hearing > > protection. > > > Scaled Composites seem to have fabricated quite a > bit of the rocket > > motor themselves, including the N2O tank (which is > also the structural > > core of the spacecraft) and the nozzle casings. It > would be > > interesting to hear from Michael's friend exactly > what parts SpaceDev > > designed and what they manufactured. > > > I took lots more notes. Very interesting stuff. > > > -- W. Thomas Wall > > wtwall@lightview.biz > > > > 949-498-3305" > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:09 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> Commander-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Lister, Please read over the Commander-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Commander-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Commander-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Commander-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. 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"Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. ------- [This is an automated posting.]