Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Re: Commander 500 - Automotive Fuel? (Curtis Perry)
2. 06:37 PM - Re: Commander 500 - Automotive Fuel? (W J R HAMILTON)
3. 07:12 PM - (Jim Addington)
4. 09:29 PM - AVGAS and Twin Commanders (tylor.hall)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 500 - Automotive Fuel? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry <cperry@subictel.com>
The following came from the Peterson Aviation Inc.,
984 K Road
Minden, Nebraska 68959
phone 308/832-2050
fax 308/832-2311
It shows the Lycoming engines approved for their STC. The O 540 A2B is
listed as approved for the 91 Octane STC, which is the engine I thought
was in the Commander 500. I did check and Peterson said they've never
tested the Commander 500 air frame.
Curt Perry
ENGINES APPROVED FOR AUTO FUEL
An asterisk denotes 91 octane minimum.
All others are 87 octane minimum, with the exception of some
R-1830's.Lycoming:
0-145-B1, -B2, -B3, -C1, -C2, GO-145-C1, -C2,-C3, -A1, -A2 0-235-C,
-C1, -C1B, -E1, -E1B, -C1C, -C1A, -H2C, -C2A, -C2B, -E2A, -E2B, -L2A*,
-L2C*, -M1*, -M2C*, -M3C*, -N2A*, -N2C*, -P1*, -P2A*, -P2C*, -P3C*
0-290, -A, -AP, -B, (0-290-1), -C, (0-290-3),-CP, -D, (0-290-11), -D2,
-D2A, -D2B, -D2C 0-320, 0-320-A1A, -A1B, -A2A, -A2B, -A2C,-A2D, -A3A,
-A3B, -A3C, -B1A*, -B1B*, -B2A*,-B2B*, -B2C*, -B3A*, -B3B*, -B3C*,
-C1A, -C1B, -C2A, -C2B, -C2C, -C3A,-C3B, -C3C, -D1A*, -D1B*, -D1C*,
-D1D*, -D1F*, -D2A*, -D2B*, -D2C*, -D2F*, -D2G*, -D2H*, -D2J*, -D3G*,
-E1A, -E1B,- E1C, -E1F, -E2A, -E2B, -E2C, -E2D, -E2F, -E2G,-E2H, -E3D,
-E3H,-E1J.
0-360-B1A, -B1B, -B2A, -B2B, -D1A, -D2A,-D2B, -A1A*, -A1AD*,
-A1D*,-A1F*,-A1F6*, -A1F6D*, A1H6*, -A1G*,-A1G6*, -A1G6D*, -A1H*,
-A1LD*, -A2A*, -A2D*, -A2E*, -A2F*, -A2G*, -A2H*,-A3A*, -A4D*,-A4N*,
-A3AD*, -A3D*,-A4A*, -A4AD*, -A4G*, -A4J*, -A4K*, -A4M*, -A5AD*, -C1A*,
-C1C*, -C1F*, -C1G*, -C2A*, -C2C*, -C1E*, -C2E*, -F1A6*, -G1A6*, -J2A*,
H0-360-C1A*
0-435, 0-435-A, 0-435-C (0-435-1),0-435-C1,(0-435-11), 0-435-C2
(0-435-13)
0-540-B1A5, -B1B5, -B1D5, -B2A5, -B2B5, -B2C5, -B4A5, -B4B5, -A1A*,
-A1A5*, -A1B5*,
-A1C5*, -A1D*, -A1D5*, -A2B*, -A3D5*, -A4A5*, -A4B5*, -A4C5*, -A4D5*,
-D1A5*,
-E4A5*, -E4B5*, -E4C5*, -G1A5*, -G2A5*, -H1A5*, -H2A5*, -H1A5D*,
-H2A5D*, -H1B5D*, -H2B5D* -F1B5*
On Tuesday, December 14, 2004, at 01:58 PM, CloudCraft@aol.com wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 12/13/04 4:33:49 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> cperry@subictel.com writes:
>
> << Are we correct the 500 is the only model that can use the MoGas
> STC? >>\
>
> This subject was reasearched by the Twin Commander Flight Group in
> 1997. My
> information dates back to that time.
>
> Lycoming will not allow any of their engines (or at least engine
> series that
> are powering Twin Commanders) to run on MoGas.
>
> A surprising fact was not one I expected: Lycoming does not like the
> chlorine
> content of MoGas and this is one of the main reasons they disallow
> their
> engines to operate on it.
>
> As Bill and Chris indicated, if Teledyne Continental will allow MoGas
> in the
> IO-470, the Commander 500A could be a candidate, but I doubt that an
> engine ot
> that power output is going to be found running on MoGas.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 500 - Automotive Fuel? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
Folks,
MOGAS STCs in general.
All of the MOGAS STCs for US built engines I have ever dealt with have been
established by individuals or companies as a commercial venture, as far as
I recall both TCM and Lycoming claim MOGAS as a nono.
The ASTM specifications for what constitutes avgas are relatively flexible,
in at least one instance of which I am aware, the 100LL (meets ASTM specs.
for 100/130) is from a refinery that produces "Premium unleaded", and a
very small amount of tetraethyl lead is added, about 10% of a typical lead
load in 100LL from many older refineries. In short, about the only problem
in running many older TCM engines (certified on 80/87) on this kind of
premium unleaded is potential exhaust seat/valve problems. It would seem
this is a "potential problem", the many mogas STCs experience has not
produced the valve seat problems experienced in old motor car engines..
Selling older aircraft in Australia, having a mogas STC is a VERY big
selling point, and it is availability, not price, which is the driver.
One of the reasons for the 500A is I hope to eventually visit a few places
around the Pacific Rim where supplied of avgas are nil. Hence the need to
run on mogas in some remote places, where you can't even have drum stock
positioned in advance, at any price.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 16:58 14/12/2004, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/13/04 4:33:49 PM Mountain Standard Time,
>cperry@subictel.com writes:
>
><< Are we correct the 500 is the only model that can use the MoGas STC? >>\
>
>This subject was reasearched by the Twin Commander Flight Group in 1997. My
>information dates back to that time.
>
>Lycoming will not allow any of their engines (or at least engine series that
>are powering Twin Commanders) to run on MoGas.
>
>A surprising fact was not one I expected: Lycoming does not like the chlorine
>content of MoGas and this is one of the main reasons they disallow their
>engines to operate on it.
>
>As Bill and Chris indicated, if Teledyne Continental will allow MoGas in the
>IO-470, the Commander 500A could be a candidate, but I doubt that an
>engine ot
>that power output is going to be found running on MoGas.
>
>Wing Commander Gordon
>
>
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Message 3
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1.16 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
MOGAS Depending on how long the legs are, if you have a plane ( C310 or
Baron etc.)that has several tanks and a tank selector you can carry avgas in
one tank and mogas in the others. You take off and land on the avgas and
when you get to crz and have reduced power, switch to the mogas. However
that does not work in the Commander because all tanks are joined. I don't
know that I would want to make an every day thing of that though.
Jim Addington
N444BD
Message 4
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| Subject: | AVGAS and Twin Commanders |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
I was looking at the www.eaa.org <http://www.eaa.org/> and their list of
STC for AVGAS. They stated that all of their STC are for only for engines
that run on 80/87 AVGAS.
On www.gami.com <http://www.gami.com/> (the injector people) you will find
that they are working on an ignition system that reads the pressure inside
of the cylinders and adjusts the timing to eliminate detonation. This would
allow the engine to run on lower octane fuel. I have seen it work in a
prototype stage. Someone may want to call them and see how the STC process
is gong.
TEL or lead does two things in aviation engines. The first is to stop
detonation. The second is it lubricated the valves and seats. Lubrication
can be solved with additives in the gas. The first is part of the fuel or
the ignition system.
I recently got a report of the committee that is working on the unleaded
AVGAS problem. They are trying all kinds of different formulas to come up
with a fuel that will work in aviation engines without modification of the
engine. There is no solution in site yet.
Tylor Hall
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