---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/15/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 PM - fly by (Bill Bow) 2. 02:11 PM - Re: fly by (Barry Collman) 3. 03:51 PM - Panel (Bill Kirkwood) 4. 04:23 PM - Re: Panel (N560WM@aol.com) 5. 04:32 PM - Re: Panel (Moe) 6. 05:02 PM - Re: Panel (nico css) 7. 05:18 PM - Re: Panel (CloudCraft@aol.com) 8. 06:15 PM - Brakes (Jody Pillatzki) 9. 06:27 PM - Re: Panel (Moe) 10. 08:08 PM - Re: fly by (RRamm52@cs.com) 11. 08:51 PM - Re: Panel (tylor.hall) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:32 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Commander-List: fly by --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Was it anyone on this list that was going northbound about 1,000 ft, 30 east of the ORL VOR at about 1400L yesterday(2/14/05)? The Commander was White on top and Dark Blue on the bottom. bilbo ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:26 PM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: fly by --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Not guilty. I'm not allowed out on St Valentines Day! Barry C. (UK) !!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Commander-List: fly by | --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" | | Was it anyone on this list that was going northbound about 1,000 ft, 30 east of the ORL VOR at about 1400L yesterday(2/14/05)? The Commander was White on top and Dark Blue on the bottom. | | bilbo | | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:39 PM PST US From: "Bill Kirkwood" Subject: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B, Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am looking for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible, accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new radios, but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me? bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:43 PM PST US From: N560WM@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: N560WM@aol.com Good luck ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:15 PM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Bill, Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I like all of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio stack in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down and the remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an autopilot, and if so where is it located? Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing must go at the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem elsewhere. Moe N680RR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Kirkwood" Subject: Commander-List: Panel > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B, Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am looking for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible, accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new radios, but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me? > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:48 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" Moe It is interesting that you prefer the engine instruments across the top of the panel while, if I remember correctly, it has been a custom practice of manufacturers to arrange the engine instruments vertically above the engine controls. What are your thoughts on that arrangement? Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > > Bill, > > Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I like all > of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio stack > in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down and the > remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an autopilot, and > if so where is it located? > > Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing must go at > the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem > elsewhere. > > Moe > N680RR > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Kirkwood" > To: > Subject: Commander-List: Panel > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > > > > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B, > Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane > while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am looking > for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible, > accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new radios, > but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me? > > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:16 PM PST US From: CloudCraft@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com In a message dated 15-Feb-05 15:54:39 Pacific Standard Time, bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com writes: > I am looking for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is > visible, accessable, tuneable, etc. I love spending other people's money so I'm going to offer my free opinion (worth every penny). One of the natural and maybe intentional layouts of the Commander panel was to have the manifold pressure gauge above the throttles, the RPM gauge above the prop levers and the fuel flow gauge above the mixture levers. When I was a guest in many client's newly upgraded aircraft, I was distressed by how the engine group got spread out willy-nilly to accommodate some Buck Rogers box or another. I've nothing against Buck Rogers, but PLEASE keep the original ergonomics of engine gauges and controls. And if you can keep the hydraulic pressure gauge from being totally lost in some odd corner of the panel, do that, too. Obviously, I've seen a lot of panels created by Dr. Frankenstein ... Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:24 PM PST US From: "Jody Pillatzki" Subject: Commander-List: Brakes --> Commander-List message posted by: "Jody Pillatzki" Guys I am planning for my annual here in March on 411VV and I should upgrade my brakes. I know that Chris has just gotten one done and I need some information to plan for this. The kit that Cleveland wants to sell me is over 8000$ and I believe that I heard of an older kit that parts are still available for much less. Jody ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:20 PM PST US From: "Moe" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" Nico, When I say at the top in a horizontal arrangement I mean at the very top, just below the panel sunshade, or whatever you call it. This places the tachometers and the manifold pressure just above the artificial horizon and the fuel flow, temp. and hyd. pressure gages all up on top. When things get really busy I just don't look at this panel as often. The entire radio stack then can be in the middle, above and below the engine controls (throttle, props, & mixture). This is of course a matter of personal preference, but if the engine instruments are above the engine controls, it doesn't seem possible to get all of the radios in one neat orderly stack. As mentioned before it is nice to have the important stuff up at the top, and my back up GPS is almost at the floor. Just like I prefer to have the pilots and co-pilots panel to be mirror images of each other, rather than having them the same. For some reason if my air speed indicator fails and it is on the top row to the left I seem more adept at looking at the top row to the extreme right on the co-pilots side to quickly find it. In both instances they are at the top next to the side wall. Probably the best thing to do is sit in the pilots seat and find the spots that are easiest to see. I, being rather tall from the waste up have a spot on the pilots side that is really hard to see (I have to duck big time). This is where the air-conditioning controls are at the bottom center. Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > Moe > > It is interesting that you prefer the engine instruments across the top of > the panel while, if I remember correctly, it has been a custom practice of > manufacturers to arrange the engine instruments vertically above the engine > controls. What are your thoughts on that arrangement? > > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Moe" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > > > > Bill, > > > > Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I like > all > > of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio stack > > in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down and the > > remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an autopilot, and > > if so where is it located? > > > > Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing must go > at > > the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem > > elsewhere. > > > > Moe > > N680RR > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Kirkwood" > > To: > > Subject: Commander-List: Panel > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > > > > > > > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B, > > Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane > > while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am looking > > for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible, > > accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new radios, > > but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me? > > > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:17 PM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: fly by --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com In a message dated 2/15/2005 4:12:04 PM Central Standard Time, barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes: > Not guilty. I'm not allowed out on St Valentines Day! > > Barry C. (UK) !!! Hi, Barry I've found every photo of every plane I've owned from 1964 to now....except 401E! But it'll show up and I shall send it to you.... Rob Munro ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:30 PM PST US From: "tylor.hall" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" Bill, This is a link to N501TC. The engine instruments are arranged under the glare shield in a logical order at the top of the panel. They fit because they are short in depth. This top panel held the radio heads for black box radios that have been replaced. Being a 500B, the panel is somewhat different from your 560. You may be able to arch the glare shield up some to make room. I like this arrangement because they are easy to glance at on takeoff roll. Engine health and airspeed seem to me to be most important during those brief moments. http://www.pioneerone.net/AeroCommander.htm That is my two cents. And yes, Wing Commander also makes cents. Tylor Hall Nico, When I say at the top in a horizontal arrangement I mean at the very top, just below the panel sunshade, or whatever you call it. This places the tachometers and the manifold pressure just above the artificial horizon and the fuel flow, temp. and hyd. pressure gages all up on top. When things get really busy I just don't look at this panel as often. The entire radio stack then can be in the middle, above and below the engine controls (throttle, props, & mixture). This is of course a matter of personal preference, but if the engine instruments are above the engine controls, it doesn't seem possible to get all of the radios in one neat orderly stack. As mentioned before it is nice to have the important stuff up at the top, and my back up GPS is almost at the floor. Just like I prefer to have the pilots and co-pilots panel to be mirror images of each other, rather than having them the same. For some reason if my air speed indicator fails and it is on the top row to the left I seem more adept at looking at the top row to the extreme right on the co-pilots side to quickly find it. In both instances they are at the top next to the side wall. Probably the best thing to do is sit in the pilots seat and find the spots that are easiest to see. I, being rather tall from the waste up have a spot on the pilots side that is really hard to see (I have to duck big time). This is where the air-conditioning controls are at the bottom center. Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > Moe > > It is interesting that you prefer the engine instruments across the top of > the panel while, if I remember correctly, it has been a custom practice of > manufacturers to arrange the engine instruments vertically above the engine > controls. What are your thoughts on that arrangement? > > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Moe" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > > > > Bill, > > > > Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I like > all > > of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio stack > > in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down and the > > remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an autopilot, and > > if so where is it located? > > > > Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing must go > at > > the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem > > elsewhere. > > > > Moe > > N680RR > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Kirkwood" > > To: > > Subject: Commander-List: Panel > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > > > > > > > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B, > > Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane > > while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am looking > > for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible, > > accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new radios, > > but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me? > > > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > >