Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - Re: Panel (Bill Bow)
2. 04:22 AM - Re: Panel (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
3. 10:48 AM - Re: Panel (nico css)
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Commander Gordon,
Over the years there have been a lot of really clever, well thought out,
layouts. (the row of switches behind the control colum on the early Bonanza
comes to mind) That doesn't mean that as panels have evolved that they have
been changed. An example would be the "T" layout of the instruments, which
didn't show up until pilots had been flying instruments for 30 years.
I would prefer my engine instruments up across the top, too. Even at my
advanced age I can still remember which lever makes which gauge move.
Just a thought.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 15-Feb-05 15:54:39 Pacific Standard Time,
> bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com writes:
>
>> I am looking for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it
>> is
>> visible, accessable, tuneable, etc.
>
> I love spending other people's money so I'm going to offer my free opinion
> (worth every penny).
>
> One of the natural and maybe intentional layouts of the Commander panel
> was
> to have the manifold pressure gauge above the throttles, the RPM gauge
> above
> the prop levers and the fuel flow gauge above the mixture levers.
>
> When I was a guest in many client's newly upgraded aircraft, I was
> distressed
> by how the engine group got spread out willy-nilly to accommodate some
> Buck
> Rogers box or another.
>
> I've nothing against Buck Rogers, but PLEASE keep the original ergonomics
> of
> engine gauges and controls. And if you can keep the hydraulic pressure
> gauge
> from being totally lost in some odd corner of the panel, do that, too.
>
> Obviously, I've seen a lot of panels created by Dr. Frankenstein ...
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
>
Message 2
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Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:22:09 -0600
--> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala@msn.com>
BK, PLEASE CALL GARY KROMER AT COMMANDER AERO, WE JUST COMPLETED NEW PANEL FOR
2001M AND HE HAS THE DIGITAL PICTURES AVAILABLE. YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED. MASON
----- Original Message -----
From: tylor.hall<mailto:tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:50 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Panel
--> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net<mailto:tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>>
Bill,
This is a link to N501TC. The engine instruments are arranged under the
glare shield in a logical order at the top of the panel. They fit because
they are short in depth.
This top panel held the radio heads for black box radios that have been
replaced.
Being a 500B, the panel is somewhat different from your 560. You may be
able to arch the glare shield up some to make room.
I like this arrangement because they are easy to glance at on takeoff roll.
Engine health and airspeed seem to me to be most important during those
brief moments.
http://www.pioneerone.net/AeroCommander.htm<http://www.pioneerone.net/AeroCommander.htm>
That is my two cents. And yes, Wing Commander also makes cents.
Tylor Hall
Nico,
When I say at the top in a horizontal arrangement I mean at the very top,
just below the panel sunshade, or whatever you call it. This places the
tachometers and the manifold pressure just above the artificial horizon and
the fuel flow, temp. and hyd. pressure gages all up on top. When things get
really busy I just don't look at this panel as often. The entire radio
stack then can be in the middle, above and below the engine controls
(throttle, props, & mixture). This is of course a matter of personal
preference, but if the engine instruments are above the engine controls, it
doesn't seem possible to get all of the radios in one neat orderly stack. As
mentioned before it is nice to have the important stuff up at the top, and
my back up GPS is almost at the floor. Just like I prefer to have the
pilots and co-pilots panel to be mirror images of each other, rather than
having them the same. For some reason if my air speed indicator fails and
it is on the top row to the left I seem more adept at looking at the top row
to the extreme right on the co-pilots side to quickly find it. In both
instances they are at the top next to the side wall.
Probably the best thing to do is sit in the pilots seat and find the spots
that are easiest to see. I, being rather tall from the waste up have a spot
on the pilots side that is really hard to see (I have to duck big time).
This is where the air-conditioning controls are at the bottom center.
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com>>
To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com>>
>
> Moe
>
> It is interesting that you prefer the engine instruments across the top of
> the panel while, if I remember correctly, it has been a custom practice of
> manufacturers to arrange the engine instruments vertically above the
engine
> controls. What are your thoughts on that arrangement?
>
> Nico
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I like
> all
> > of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio
stack
> > in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down and
the
> > remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an autopilot,
and
> > if so where is it located?
> >
> > Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing must
go
> at
> > the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > Moe
> > N680RR
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Kirkwood" <bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com<mailto:bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com>>
> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> > Subject: Commander-List: Panel
> >
> >
> > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood"
> > <bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com<mailto:bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com>>
> > >
> > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B,
> > Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane
> > while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am
looking
> > for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible,
> > accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new
radios,
> > but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me?
> > > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com<mailto:bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
The "T" arrangement became a necessity when crews had to fly many different
planes and it just made sense to have a standardized layout and instrument
scan to safely increase crew portability.
With private ownership, I accept that instrument layout is firstly dictated
by practical reasons (you don't have to duck and dive to read critical
instruments) and secondly by personal preference. Nobody else ought to fly
one's plane unless carefully selected and approved. With part 135 equipment,
it is another matter.
That's my two-bits worth.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" <Kamala@msn.com>
>
> BK, PLEASE CALL GARY KROMER AT COMMANDER AERO, WE JUST COMPLETED NEW
PANEL FOR 2001M AND HE HAS THE DIGITAL PICTURES AVAILABLE. YOU MIGHT BE
INTERESTED. MASON
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tylor.hall<mailto:tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
> To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Panel
>
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall"
<tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net<mailto:tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>>
>
> Bill,
> This is a link to N501TC. The engine instruments are arranged under the
> glare shield in a logical order at the top of the panel. They fit
because
> they are short in depth.
> This top panel held the radio heads for black box radios that have been
> replaced.
> Being a 500B, the panel is somewhat different from your 560. You may be
> able to arch the glare shield up some to make room.
> I like this arrangement because they are easy to glance at on takeoff
roll.
> Engine health and airspeed seem to me to be most important during those
> brief moments.
>
http://www.pioneerone.net/AeroCommander.htm<http://www.pioneerone.net/AeroCommander.htm>
>
> That is my two cents. And yes, Wing Commander also makes cents.
> Tylor Hall
>
>
> Nico,
>
> When I say at the top in a horizontal arrangement I mean at the very
top,
> just below the panel sunshade, or whatever you call it. This places the
> tachometers and the manifold pressure just above the artificial horizon
and
> the fuel flow, temp. and hyd. pressure gages all up on top. When things
get
> really busy I just don't look at this panel as often. The entire radio
> stack then can be in the middle, above and below the engine controls
> (throttle, props, & mixture). This is of course a matter of personal
> preference, but if the engine instruments are above the engine controls,
it
> doesn't seem possible to get all of the radios in one neat orderly
stack. As
> mentioned before it is nice to have the important stuff up at the top,
and
> my back up GPS is almost at the floor. Just like I prefer to have the
> pilots and co-pilots panel to be mirror images of each other, rather
than
> having them the same. For some reason if my air speed indicator fails
and
> it is on the top row to the left I seem more adept at looking at the top
row
> to the extreme right on the co-pilots side to quickly find it. In both
> instances they are at the top next to the side wall.
>
> Probably the best thing to do is sit in the pilots seat and find the
spots
> that are easiest to see. I, being rather tall from the waste up have a
spot
> on the pilots side that is really hard to see (I have to duck big time).
> This is where the air-conditioning controls are at the bottom center.
>
> Moe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nico css"
<nico@cybersuperstore.com<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com>>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
> <nico@cybersuperstore.com<mailto:nico@cybersuperstore.com>>
> >
> > Moe
> >
> > It is interesting that you prefer the engine instruments across the
top of
> > the panel while, if I remember correctly, it has been a custom
practice of
> > manufacturers to arrange the engine instruments vertically above the
> engine
> > controls. What are your thoughts on that arrangement?
> >
> > Nico
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
> > To:
<commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel
> >
> >
> > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe"
<moe@rosspistons.com<mailto:moe@rosspistons.com>>
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I
like
> > all
> > > of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio
> stack
> > > in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down
and
> the
> > > remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an
autopilot,
> and
> > > if so where is it located?
> > >
> > > Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing
must
> go
> > at
> > > the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem
> > > elsewhere.
> > >
> > > Moe
> > > N680RR
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill Kirkwood"
<bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com<mailto:bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com>>
> > > To:
<commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>>
> > > Subject: Commander-List: Panel
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood"
> > > <bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com<mailto:bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com>>
> > > >
> > > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B,
> > > Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the
plane
> > > while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am
> looking
> > > for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is
visible,
> > > accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new
> radios,
> > > but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me?
> > > > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com<mailto:bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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