---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/16/05: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:18 AM - Re: Panel (Bill Bow) 2. 04:22 AM - Re: Panel (MASON CHEVAILLIER) 3. 10:48 AM - Re: Panel (nico css) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:22 AM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Commander Gordon, Over the years there have been a lot of really clever, well thought out, layouts. (the row of switches behind the control colum on the early Bonanza comes to mind) That doesn't mean that as panels have evolved that they have been changed. An example would be the "T" layout of the instruments, which didn't show up until pilots had been flying instruments for 30 years. I would prefer my engine instruments up across the top, too. Even at my advanced age I can still remember which lever makes which gauge move. Just a thought. bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com > > In a message dated 15-Feb-05 15:54:39 Pacific Standard Time, > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com writes: > >> I am looking for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it >> is >> visible, accessable, tuneable, etc. > > I love spending other people's money so I'm going to offer my free opinion > (worth every penny). > > One of the natural and maybe intentional layouts of the Commander panel > was > to have the manifold pressure gauge above the throttles, the RPM gauge > above > the prop levers and the fuel flow gauge above the mixture levers. > > When I was a guest in many client's newly upgraded aircraft, I was > distressed > by how the engine group got spread out willy-nilly to accommodate some > Buck > Rogers box or another. > > I've nothing against Buck Rogers, but PLEASE keep the original ergonomics > of > engine gauges and controls. And if you can keep the hydraulic pressure > gauge > from being totally lost in some odd corner of the panel, do that, too. > > Obviously, I've seen a lot of panels created by Dr. Frankenstein ... > > Wing Commander Gordon > > Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:24 AM PST US From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 06:22:09 -0600 --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" BK, PLEASE CALL GARY KROMER AT COMMANDER AERO, WE JUST COMPLETED NEW PANEL FOR 2001M AND HE HAS THE DIGITAL PICTURES AVAILABLE. YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED. MASON ----- Original Message ----- From: tylor.hall To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:50 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" > Bill, This is a link to N501TC. The engine instruments are arranged under the glare shield in a logical order at the top of the panel. They fit because they are short in depth. This top panel held the radio heads for black box radios that have been replaced. Being a 500B, the panel is somewhat different from your 560. You may be able to arch the glare shield up some to make room. I like this arrangement because they are easy to glance at on takeoff roll. Engine health and airspeed seem to me to be most important during those brief moments. http://www.pioneerone.net/AeroCommander.htm That is my two cents. And yes, Wing Commander also makes cents. Tylor Hall Nico, When I say at the top in a horizontal arrangement I mean at the very top, just below the panel sunshade, or whatever you call it. This places the tachometers and the manifold pressure just above the artificial horizon and the fuel flow, temp. and hyd. pressure gages all up on top. When things get really busy I just don't look at this panel as often. The entire radio stack then can be in the middle, above and below the engine controls (throttle, props, & mixture). This is of course a matter of personal preference, but if the engine instruments are above the engine controls, it doesn't seem possible to get all of the radios in one neat orderly stack. As mentioned before it is nice to have the important stuff up at the top, and my back up GPS is almost at the floor. Just like I prefer to have the pilots and co-pilots panel to be mirror images of each other, rather than having them the same. For some reason if my air speed indicator fails and it is on the top row to the left I seem more adept at looking at the top row to the extreme right on the co-pilots side to quickly find it. In both instances they are at the top next to the side wall. Probably the best thing to do is sit in the pilots seat and find the spots that are easiest to see. I, being rather tall from the waste up have a spot on the pilots side that is really hard to see (I have to duck big time). This is where the air-conditioning controls are at the bottom center. Moe ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > Moe > > It is interesting that you prefer the engine instruments across the top of > the panel while, if I remember correctly, it has been a custom practice of > manufacturers to arrange the engine instruments vertically above the engine > controls. What are your thoughts on that arrangement? > > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Moe" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > > > > > Bill, > > > > Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I like > all > > of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio stack > > in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down and the > > remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an autopilot, and > > if so where is it located? > > > > Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing must go > at > > the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem > > elsewhere. > > > > Moe > > N680RR > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Kirkwood" > > > To: > > > Subject: Commander-List: Panel > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > > > > > > > > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B, > > Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane > > while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am looking > > for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible, > > accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new radios, > > but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me? > > > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:02 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" The "T" arrangement became a necessity when crews had to fly many different planes and it just made sense to have a standardized layout and instrument scan to safely increase crew portability. With private ownership, I accept that instrument layout is firstly dictated by practical reasons (you don't have to duck and dive to read critical instruments) and secondly by personal preference. Nobody else ought to fly one's plane unless carefully selected and approved. With part 135 equipment, it is another matter. That's my two-bits worth. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > --> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON CHEVAILLIER" > > BK, PLEASE CALL GARY KROMER AT COMMANDER AERO, WE JUST COMPLETED NEW PANEL FOR 2001M AND HE HAS THE DIGITAL PICTURES AVAILABLE. YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED. MASON > ----- Original Message ----- > From: tylor.hall > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 10:50 PM > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Panel > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" > > > Bill, > This is a link to N501TC. The engine instruments are arranged under the > glare shield in a logical order at the top of the panel. They fit because > they are short in depth. > This top panel held the radio heads for black box radios that have been > replaced. > Being a 500B, the panel is somewhat different from your 560. You may be > able to arch the glare shield up some to make room. > I like this arrangement because they are easy to glance at on takeoff roll. > Engine health and airspeed seem to me to be most important during those > brief moments. > http://www.pioneerone.net/AeroCommander.htm > > That is my two cents. And yes, Wing Commander also makes cents. > Tylor Hall > > > Nico, > > When I say at the top in a horizontal arrangement I mean at the very top, > just below the panel sunshade, or whatever you call it. This places the > tachometers and the manifold pressure just above the artificial horizon and > the fuel flow, temp. and hyd. pressure gages all up on top. When things get > really busy I just don't look at this panel as often. The entire radio > stack then can be in the middle, above and below the engine controls > (throttle, props, & mixture). This is of course a matter of personal > preference, but if the engine instruments are above the engine controls, it > doesn't seem possible to get all of the radios in one neat orderly stack. As > mentioned before it is nice to have the important stuff up at the top, and > my back up GPS is almost at the floor. Just like I prefer to have the > pilots and co-pilots panel to be mirror images of each other, rather than > having them the same. For some reason if my air speed indicator fails and > it is on the top row to the left I seem more adept at looking at the top row > to the extreme right on the co-pilots side to quickly find it. In both > instances they are at the top next to the side wall. > > Probably the best thing to do is sit in the pilots seat and find the spots > that are easiest to see. I, being rather tall from the waste up have a spot > on the pilots side that is really hard to see (I have to duck big time). > This is where the air-conditioning controls are at the bottom center. > > Moe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "nico css" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > > Moe > > > > It is interesting that you prefer the engine instruments across the top of > > the panel while, if I remember correctly, it has been a custom practice of > > manufacturers to arrange the engine instruments vertically above the > engine > > controls. What are your thoughts on that arrangement? > > > > Nico > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Moe" > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Panel > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" > > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > Do you have a sketch or a photo of what you have now? Personally I like > > all > > > of the engine instruments across the top of the panel, and the radio > stack > > > in the middle with the audio panel at the top, the MFD second down and > the > > > remainder in ascending order of importance. Do you have an autopilot, > and > > > if so where is it located? > > > > > > Having said this, the autopilot that Commander Aero is installing must > go > > at > > > the bottom of the panel on the pilots side, as depth was a problem > > > elsewhere. > > > > > > Moe > > > N680RR > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bill Kirkwood" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Commander-List: Panel > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Kirkwood" > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a Garmin 430 to install in my 560E along with the KX170B, > > > Transponder, and audio panel. I have the entire panel out of the plane > > > while waiting for the 2nd engine to come back from the shop. I am > looking > > > for suggestions for where to put all this stuff so that it is visible, > > > accessable, tuneable, etc. I have been seeing chat here about new > radios, > > > but I haven't seen any layouts. Can someone help me? > > > > bkirkwoo@elp.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >