Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:07 PM - P-47's (Barry Hancock)
2. 03:09 PM - Re: (Barry Hancock)
3. 03:21 PM - Re: Re: (Jim Addington)
4. 06:07 PM - Re: Photo of 720 ali cruiser/Barry C from Rob (Chris Schuermann)
5. 06:36 PM - Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob (RRamm52@cs.com)
6. 06:49 PM - Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob (RRamm52@cs.com)
7. 06:58 PM - Aircraft conditions (Chris Schuermann)
8. 07:02 PM - Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob (Chris Schuermann)
9. 07:56 PM - Re: Aircraft conditions (RRamm52@cs.com)
10. 08:21 PM - Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob (RRamm52@cs.com)
Message 1
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Thanks, Bilbo! I am and will always remain indebted to those who
sacrificed so much for all of us and those under oppressive rule
Fun to watch....tho' there's nothing I hate more as a warbird
aficionado than hearing bogus and wimpy dubbed engine noises coming
from truly manly and powerful engines (R2800's)!!!!
It's akin to putting O-320 sound to GSO 480's!!!!
Cheers,
Barry
Message 2
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> I have wanted to build a 3/4 scale
> for years using an R-985, a Stearman frame, and wood or fiberglass
> wings.
> Thanks
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
Jim, are you crazy? Why do that when you can simply go out and buy an
original for a mere $2,000,000?????
:)-
Barry
Message 3
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
Well, it was all those zeros after the 2. I doubled the price of my car the
other day, I filled it with gas. Can you imagine
what it would cost to fill one of those with gas.
Jim A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry
Hancock
Subject: Commander-List: Re:
--> Commander-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> I have wanted to build a 3/4 scale
> for years using an R-985, a Stearman frame, and wood or fiberglass
> wings.
> Thanks
> Jim Addington
> N444BD
Jim, are you crazy? Why do that when you can simply go out and buy an
original for a mere $2,000,000?????
:)-
Barry
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Photo of 720 ali cruiser/Barry C from Rob |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
skyhawkC-172@comcast.net wrote:
> --> Commander-List message posted by: skyhawkC-172@comcast.net
>
> Hey guys,
> We are still seaching for a nice old piston Aero Commander...anyone know of
> one available for sale please let us know.
I love to see classic aircraft purchased and restored by a caring owner,
but.... I wrote this about ten years ago and I believe it's still valid.
(you might want to just about double all dollar values to get a better
idea of todays prices)
http://www.aerocommander.com/Documents/things.html
By all means, find a good $50k project and give it the TLC is needs to
get her back into top condition.... you will have a wonderful
airplane... just know that you're going to put a lot into it.
Good luck!
Chris
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
Chris,
I preach this to each bargain hunter I talk to. Buy that million dollar
commander for 125,000 thats been well kept, not the bargain for 45/50K and play
catch up.........
Buy the very best you can afford to begin with. And then be well educated on
the mechanics of the aircraft and involved in owner maintenance as much as
possible.
Regards,
Rob Munro AC50
In a message dated 3/13/2005 8:07:55 PM Central Standard Time,
cschuerm@cox.net writes:
> I love to see classic aircraft purchased and restored by a caring owner,
> but.... I wrote this about ten years ago and I believe it's still valid.
> (you might want to just about double all dollar values to get a better
> idea of todays prices)
> http://www.aerocommander.com/Documents/things.html
>
> By all means, find a good $50k project and give it the TLC is needs to
> get her back into top condition.... you will have a wonderful
> airplane... just know that you're going to put a lot into it.
>
> Good luck!
> Chris
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
In a message dated 3/13/2005 8:37:15 PM Central Standard Time, RRamm52@cs.com
writes:
> >By all means, find a good $50k project and give it the TLC is needs to
> >get her back into top condition.... you will have a wonderful
> >airplane... just know that you're going to put a lot into it.
Sorry, Chris/All
I really did not mean to be so negative about a cheaper aircraft[ I love
commanders as much as any of us], but these superior twins can overwhelm an unwary
buyer. I agree that a labor of love by a person that knows commanders is a
thing of beauty and one more flying is great, but pity the poor guy that wants
to fix up a poorly maintained one that knows little about it.
Best,
Rob
Message 7
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| Subject: | Aircraft conditions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
RRamm52@cs.com wrote:
> I preach this to each bargain hunter I talk to. Buy that million dollar
> commander for 125,000 thats been well kept, not the bargain for 45/50K and play
> catch up.........
> Rob Munro AC50
Thanks Rob.
Good to hear from another "realist" on the subject.
The reality is that most light twins are 40-ish years old. Most have
had not much more than the minimum maintanance required to keep them
flying. The majority of these airplanes require a lot more work than
the typical buyer is able to deal with, so the downward trend in
condition continues.
I purchased a pretty sweet little Piper Aztec about three years ago. It
was in good, flyable condition, but I knew it had the same issues. We
did a very VERY detailed annual, and I flew it and enjoyed it for a
year. After deciding that I liked it and wanted to keep it, we began a
total rebuild. The airplane has been totally disassembled and gutted
down to the bare structure. Every single nut, bolt, cable, wire, line,
hose, etc has been replaced with new. Even the nacelles were drilled
apart so that each part could be stripped, inspected and overhauled.
I'm now on the home stretch. The new engines should be complete within
another week. That should just about match up with the completion of
all the re-wiring and with luck the uppholstery guys will wrap up at the
same time. She'll be much better than the day she left the factory.
Yup, I'll have the most expensive Aztec in the world (still less than
the price of a new Cessna 182), but I'll have absolute confidence in it.
In my opinion, a complex airplane should have a total overhaul every 30+
year/5000 hours just like the big guys do to jets. I'm always amazed at
all the little problems we find during one of these restorations which
could have turned into major problems had they not been discovered. I
think the main nacelle trusses in the bathtub Commanders are a prime
example of that. Eventually, someone is going to actually have an
engine depart in flight and we'll get to watch the emergency ADs fly!
cheers
Chris
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
RRamm52@cs.com wrote:
> Sorry, Chris/All
> I really did not mean to be so negative about a cheaper aircraft
No need to appologize at all Rob. You're dead right!
Sadly, it's also the poor clueless owner who is the same one that's
going to have to pay someone else to do all the work rather than be able
to invest a 1000 hours of "sweat equity". I'm pretty sure we broke the
thousand hour mark on my old Commander. I shudder to think what the
bill would have been if I hadn't been able to do so much of the work
myself and with the expert assistance of my father!
chris
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft conditions |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
Chris,
That is one Aztec I would love to see. Where is she based.........?
Rob
In a message dated 3/13/2005 8:59:05 PM Central Standard Time,
cschuerm@cox.net writes:
>
> I purchased a pretty sweet little Piper Aztec about three years ago. It
> was in good, flyable condition, but I knew it had the same issues. We
> did a very VERY detailed annual, and I flew it and enjoyed it for a
> year. After deciding that I liked it and wanted to keep it, we began a
> total rebuild. The airplane has been totally disassembled and gutted
> down to the bare structure. Every single nut, bolt, cable, wire, line,
> hose, etc has been replaced with new. Even the nacelles were drilled
> apart so that each part could be stripped, inspected and overhauled.
> I'm now on the home stretch. The new engines should be complete within
> another week. That should just about match up with the completion of
> all the re-wiring and with luck the uppholstery guys will wrap up at the
> same time. She'll be much better than the day she left the factory.
> Yup, I'll have the most expensive Aztec in the world (still less than
> the price of a new Cessna 182), but I'll have absolute confidence in it.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Photo of 720 alti cruiser/Barry C from Rob |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
In a message dated 3/13/2005 9:03:03 PM Central Standard Time,
cschuerm@cox.net writes:
> Sadly, it's also the poor clueless owner who is the same one that's
> going to have to pay someone else to do all the work rather than be able
> to invest a 1000 hours of "sweat equity". I'm pretty sure we broke the
> thousand hour mark on my old Commander. I shudder to think what the
> bill would have been if I hadn't been able to do so much of the work
> myself and with the expert assistance of my father!
>
> chris
I learned much from my father as well. He's 87 now, but I still ask his
advice. Flying the mooney to Md. to see him friday, as a matter of fact!
I do 99% of my own maintenance and fiddle and improve on the aircraft
constantly. I'm in the back woods of La. and only 10 minutes from our little airport,
so I'm able to spend a lot of time working on my planes and a lot of time
flying them. I think the flight time is better than the TLC.........
I made the mistake once of telling one list that I paid 250.00 for my annual
on the bonanza. One guy said yeh, those pencil whipped annuals are dangerous,
my 25 hour annual cost 3XXX........
Well, I probably spent 200 hours on my Bo annual during the year, and my IA
knows it. I've seen many of the high dollar annualled planes on the ramp with
dry grease fittings in the landing gear.........rod end failure begging to
happen...
Cheers,
Rob
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