Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:29 AM - Re: COMMANDER LIST (Moe)
2. 06:47 AM - Re: COMMANDER LIST (Deneal Schilmeister (Portege))
3. 07:19 AM - Re: Glide Ratios (Larry Wokral)
4. 07:22 AM - Performance Charts (Larry Wokral)
5. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Glide Ratios (John Vormbaum)
6. 08:06 AM - Re: Performance Charts (John Vormbaum)
7. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: Glide Ratios (BobsV35B@aol.com)
8. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Glide Ratios (Moe)
9. 08:29 AM - Re: Performance Charts (John Vormbaum)
10. 09:02 AM - Re: Performance Charts (CloudCraft@aol.com)
11. 10:26 AM - Re: Performance Charts (Deneal Schilmeister (iMac))
12. 02:54 PM - Re: Performance Charts (JBOBSTER@aol.com)
13. 03:35 PM - Re:USA Visit (RnJThompson@aol.com)
14. 05:29 PM - Re: Performance Charts (tylor.hall)
15. 05:53 PM - Re: COMMANDER LIST (W J R HAMILTON)
16. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Glide Ratios (Bill Bow)
17. 06:39 PM - Re: Performance Charts (Bill Bow)
18. 06:55 PM - Re: Performance Charts (CloudCraft@aol.com)
19. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: Glide Ratios (Phil Stubbs)
20. 07:41 PM - Two Engine Out (Jim Addington)
21. 08:44 PM - Re: Two Engine Out (W J R HAMILTON)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: COMMANDER LIST |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Chris,
Thanks, we will do it the old fashoned way and send it to each indivudal
seperatly. Each person can add their info and send it back to us, and we
will merg the data and send it back to whoever wants it.
Regards,
Moe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Schuermann" <cschuerm@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: COMMANDER LIST
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
>
>
> Moe wrote:
> > Please open up the enclosed attachment
>
> Moe,
> You can't post an attachment to the list. That's a feature to keep out
> viruses (viruii?) and other nasties...
>
> Chris
>
>
Message 2
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (Portege)" <deneals@sbcglobal.net>
Moe:
I don't post much, but would like to be listed so people can find me!
___________________________
Deneal Schilmeister
St. Louis - Cincinnati
1997 SL500
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
-----Original Message-----
On Behalf Of Moe
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Chris,
Thanks, we will do it the old fashoned way and send it to each indivudal
seperatly. Each person can add their info and send it back to us, and we
will merg the data and send it back to whoever wants it.
Regards,
Moe
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Glide Ratios |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
The owner of the 685 here on my field is about to take a BFR now that his
annual inspection and spar cap inspection is finished. His instructor gave
him a question list for him to complete for the oral portion. One was what
is the engines out glide ratio and at what IAS. He says that he has looked
through his owners manual and can't find the glide ratio anywhere. For that
matter, I couldn't find it listed in mine for my 500B either.
Any clues? We are guessing that it is about 6 to 1, but something better
than a guess would be nice.
Thanks,
Larry Wokral
Message 4
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| Subject: | Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
What? Takeoff & landing at 14K in a stock 500B. That must be exciting!
Larry Wokral
>From: barshalom@aol.com
Subject: Commander-List: Performance charts
--> Commander-List message posted by: barshalom@aol.com
Anybody out there have any suggestions as to where to obtain takeoff/landing
performance
charts/tables for a stock 500B at field elevations up to 14,000 feet?
Bill
N69PT>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Glide Ratios |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
I myself would love to know, but I think his instructor needs to
double-check the requirements for multi-engine testing. As I recall, there
are no requirements for a mfr. to publish a glide ratio for a twin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
<l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
>
> The owner of the 685 here on my field is about to take a BFR now that his
> annual inspection and spar cap inspection is finished. His instructor gave
> him a question list for him to complete for the oral portion. One was what
> is the engines out glide ratio and at what IAS. He says that he has looked
> through his owners manual and can't find the glide ratio anywhere. For
that
> matter, I couldn't find it listed in mine for my 500B either.
>
> Any clues? We are guessing that it is about 6 to 1, but something better
> than a guess would be nice.
>
> Thanks,
> Larry Wokral
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Not to mention a great trivia question....how many 14,000MSL airfields are
there in the USA?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Commander-List: Performance Charts
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
<l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
>
> What? Takeoff & landing at 14K in a stock 500B. That must be exciting!
>
> Larry Wokral
>
> >From: barshalom@aol.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Performance charts
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: barshalom@aol.com
>
> Anybody out there have any suggestions as to where to obtain
takeoff/landing
> performance
> charts/tables for a stock 500B at field elevations up to 14,000 feet?
>
> Bill
> N69PT>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Glide Ratios |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Morning John,
It is fairly easy to get a ball park figure.
Set up a glide at best L/D speed and note the rate of descent.
If you want more accuracy, you could time the altitude loss
to check on the accuracy of the VSI.
After you have found the numbers with the engines at idle,
try it with them both set at the zero thrust figure as used for
simulating a feathered engine. You could also try the exercise
with the propellors set for maximum pitch as well as minimum
pitch. On many airplanes that do not have full feathering
propellors, the glide ratio can be increased dramatically by
pulling the props back to max pitch (low RPM).
After the rate of descent has been noted, calculate the TAS
and convert that to feet per minute. Using that and the rate of
descent the glide angle is easy to calculate.
I would say that the Aero Commander with props feathered
should have glide ratio around seventeen or eighteen to one.
With throttles closed and props set at cruise, I would expect
something around ten or twelve to one. Let us know what
you find out!
Haven't flown a Commander in at least forty years.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
In a message dated 4/20/2005 9:49:24 A.M. Central Standard Time,
john@vormbaum.com writes:
I myself would love to know, but I think his instructor needs to
double-check the requirements for multi-engine testing. As I recall, there
are no requirements for a mfr. to publish a glide ratio for a twin.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Glide Ratios |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
Gents:
This engine out glide info. also does not appear to be available for
680F(p). I have always felt that about one mile of glide (minimum) per
1,000 feet at gross (8,000 lbs.) would probably be a pretty good guess.
Does anyone have a better suggestion?
Moe
608F(p)
N680RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>
> I myself would love to know, but I think his instructor needs to
> double-check the requirements for multi-engine testing. As I recall, there
> are no requirements for a mfr. to publish a glide ratio for a twin.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
> <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> >
> > The owner of the 685 here on my field is about to take a BFR now that
his
> > annual inspection and spar cap inspection is finished. His instructor
gave
> > him a question list for him to complete for the oral portion. One was
what
> > is the engines out glide ratio and at what IAS. He says that he has
looked
> > through his owners manual and can't find the glide ratio anywhere. For
> that
> > matter, I couldn't find it listed in mine for my 500B either.
> >
> > Any clues? We are guessing that it is about 6 to 1, but something better
> > than a guess would be nice.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Larry Wokral
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
So far on Google, the highest I've been able to find is the Breckenridge, CO
STOL port (considered STOL even with a 4,000' runway because of its
altitude) at 9,401 MSL. Anyone know any that are higher?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Performance Charts
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>
> Not to mention a great trivia question....how many 14,000MSL airfields are
> there in the USA?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "Commander e-mail list" <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: Performance Charts
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
> <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> >
> > What? Takeoff & landing at 14K in a stock 500B. That must be exciting!
> >
> > Larry Wokral
> >
> > >From: barshalom@aol.com
> > Subject: Commander-List: Performance charts
> >
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: barshalom@aol.com
> >
> > Anybody out there have any suggestions as to where to obtain
> takeoff/landing
> > performance
> > charts/tables for a stock 500B at field elevations up to 14,000 feet?
> >
> > Bill
> > N69PT>
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
> > __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.nod32.com
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 20-Apr-05 08:07:38 Pacific Daylight Time,
john@vormbaum.com writes:
Not to mention a great trivia question....how many 14,000MSL airfields are
there in the USA?
Zero.
La Paz, Bolivia: 13,325'
Sounds like the instructor is using an single engine airplane template for
his Flight Review.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)" <deneals@sbcglobal.net>
On 4/20/05 10:28 AM, "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> wrote:
> So far on Google, the highest I've been able to find is the Breckenridge, CO
> STOL port (considered STOL even with a 4,000' runway because of its
> altitude) at 9,401 MSL. Anyone know any that are higher?
http://www.leadvilleairport.com/
Elevation 9927' - Highest Airport in North America
Lake County - Leadville Airport is the highest airport in North America and
the third highest in the world. Two higher airports exist in the South
American Andean Mountains. This "highest" distinction is very important
because the performance of an aircraft (ability to take off and climb well)
deteriorates rapidly with altitude. In fact, many aircraft are operating
above their manufacturer's specification altitudes when flying in Leadville.
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: JBOBSTER@aol.com
check Leadville, CO
Jim Carroll
Seattle
Message 13
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--> Commander-List message posted by: RnJThompson@aol.com
Hi All,
The wife and I will be visiting the Good Ol US of A from 1 May thru 14 May.
We apparently are going to some gambling joint in the desert, followed by a
visit for a couple of days to a large hole in the ground and a reasonably large
puddle.
we then proceed in a NE direction ending up in the clutches of one Buddy
Windham.and visits to a place of rapids and the home of one a Capone.
The question I have to ask is. What is the weather like in Vegas and Chicago
at this time of year? ( Once again experiencing the prospect of standing up
right and having the seasons at the right time of year).
Anyone wanting to get together for a couple of pints in Vegas,give us a mail
with contact details and we will go and test that stuff you call beer.
Regards
Richard
I would rather push my Commander than fly a Cessna!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
I put the AVGAS and Jet A tank at Leadville about 5 years ago.
Even a turbocharged airplane uses a lot of runway up there.
You can land during the day, but plan on taking off in the early AM.
DA in the summer can reach over 13,000'.
Richard,
If you are flying from Las Vegas to Chicago, you may be flying by
Albuquerque.
Stop and say "Goo' Day"
Tylor Hall
> So far on Google, the highest I've been able to find is the Breckenridge,
CO
> STOL port (considered STOL even with a 4,000' runway because of its
> altitude) at 9,401 MSL. Anyone know any that are higher?
http://www.leadvilleairport.com/
Elevation 9927' - Highest Airport in North America
Lake County - Leadville Airport is the highest airport in North America and
the third highest in the world. Two higher airports exist in the South
American Andean Mountains. This "highest" distinction is very important
because the performance of an aircraft (ability to take off and climb well)
deteriorates rapidly with altitude. In fact, many aircraft are operating
above their manufacturer's specification altitudes when flying in Leadville.
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: COMMANDER LIST |
--> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
Moe,
No attachment ?
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 09:41 20/04/2005, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Moe" <moe@rosspistons.com>
>
>Commander Folks:
>
>As some of you may remember, last week I inquired if anyone was interested
>in a list of those who use this forum fairly often. I for one can't seem
>to keep the cast of characters straight sometimes (is that the guy in
>California, or the guy in Australia?)
>
>My assistant Alma has started a list in Microsoft Excel which lists the
>email address of recent posters. Please open up the enclosed attachment
>in Excel, add your info., and email it back to moe@rosspistons.com. When
>it is filled in Alma will spam everyone.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Moe Mills
>N680RR
>680F(p)
>
>
CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE
W.J.R.Hamilton,Glenalmond Group Companies,Fighter Flights Internet Services
and Warbirds.Net. & <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>.
This message is intended for and should only be used by the addressee. It
is confidential and may contain legally privileged information.If you are
not the intended recipient any use distribution,disclosure or copying of
this message is strictly prohibited.Confidentiality and legal privilege
attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of the
mistaken delivery to you.If you have received this message in error, please
notify us immediately to Australia 61 (0)408 876 526
Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Glide Ratios |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
What the hell did we spend all this money to avoid? Get a new instructor!
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
>
> I myself would love to know, but I think his instructor needs to
> double-check the requirements for multi-engine testing. As I recall, there
> are no requirements for a mfr. to publish a glide ratio for a twin.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
>
>
>> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
> <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
>>
>> The owner of the 685 here on my field is about to take a BFR now that his
>> annual inspection and spar cap inspection is finished. His instructor
>> gave
>> him a question list for him to complete for the oral portion. One was
>> what
>> is the engines out glide ratio and at what IAS. He says that he has
>> looked
>> through his owners manual and can't find the glide ratio anywhere. For
> that
>> matter, I couldn't find it listed in mine for my 500B either.
>>
>> Any clues? We are guessing that it is about 6 to 1, but something better
>> than a guess would be nice.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Larry Wokral
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.nod32.com
>>
>>
>> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
>>
>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> http://www.nod32.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Hey Gordon,
Have we annexed Bolivia?
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <CloudCraft@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Performance Charts
> --> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 20-Apr-05 08:07:38 Pacific Daylight Time,
> john@vormbaum.com writes:
> Not to mention a great trivia question....how many 14,000MSL airfields are
> there in the USA?
> Zero.
>
> La Paz, Bolivia: 13,325'
>
> Sounds like the instructor is using an single engine airplane template for
> his Flight Review.
>
> Wing Commander Gordon
>
> Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Charts |
--> Commander-List message posted by: CloudCraft@aol.com
In a message dated 20-Apr-05 18:40:28 Pacific Daylight Time,
bowing74@earthlink.net writes:
Hey Gordon,
Have we annexed Bolivia?
Yes, but it didn't get much press.
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Glide Ratios |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Phil Stubbs" <br549phil@mindspring.com>
Two engines would generally make the point of the question mute. Glide
ratios are published for all singles, but with the exception of the MD80
manual, I have not seen it included among the multis.
> [Original Message]
> From: Bill Bow <bowing74@earthlink.net>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/20/2005 9:37:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
>
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
>
> What the hell did we spend all this money to avoid? Get a new instructor!
>
> bilbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
>
>
> > --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum"
<john@vormbaum.com>
> >
> > I myself would love to know, but I think his instructor needs to
> > double-check the requirements for multi-engine testing. As I recall,
there
> > are no requirements for a mfr. to publish a glide ratio for a twin.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Larry Wokral" <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> > To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Commander-List: RE: Glide Ratios
> >
> >
> >> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Larry Wokral"
> > <l.wokral@ix.netcom.com>
> >>
> >> The owner of the 685 here on my field is about to take a BFR now that
his
> >> annual inspection and spar cap inspection is finished. His instructor
> >> gave
> >> him a question list for him to complete for the oral portion. One was
> >> what
> >> is the engines out glide ratio and at what IAS. He says that he has
> >> looked
> >> through his owners manual and can't find the glide ratio anywhere. For
> > that
> >> matter, I couldn't find it listed in mine for my 500B either.
> >>
> >> Any clues? We are guessing that it is about 6 to 1, but something
better
> >> than a guess would be nice.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Larry Wokral
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
> >>
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> >> http://www.nod32.com
> >>
> >>
> >> __________ NOD32 1.1072 (20050420) Information __________
> >>
> >> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington" <jtaddington@charter.net>
The main reason to have two engines is you hope you only lose one. Bob
Hoover lost both and a crew on an Eastern L-1011 lost all three and I
believe a B-747 lost all four going through a volcano cloud at night so it
can happen.
Jim A
N444BD
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Two Engine Out |
--> Commander-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au>
Folks,
Let's not forget the Gimli Glider, the out of fuel B767, or the recent Air
Transat A330 dead stick onto a dot in the Atlantic.
Re. the volcano, the BA event (Mt. Gulangung, Java) received all the
publicity, including the Captain, on Australian network 9 TV, describing,
live to air, the night approach into Halim with two engines sort of
running, and almost 0 viz. through pumice blasted windscreens as ----"Like
negotiating your way up a badger's arsehole". ---- NO 2 second bleeb out
delays on TV, unlike talkback radio.
Interestingly, the following night, SQ had the same thing happen in almost
the same place, but news management in Singapore is tight, the second event
is almost unknown, except to those of us in the area.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.
At 12:41 21/04/2005, you wrote:
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Jim Addington"
><jtaddington@charter.net>
>
>
>The main reason to have two engines is you hope you only lose one. Bob
>Hoover lost both and a crew on an Eastern L-1011 lost all three and I
>believe a B-747 lost all four going through a volcano cloud at night so it
>can happen.
>
>Jim A
>N444BD
>
>
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