---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/29/05: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Curtis Perry) 2. 12:05 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Curtis Perry) 3. 12:30 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (RRamm52@cs.com) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (nico css) 5. 09:04 AM - Re: Spinners? (N560WM@aol.com) 6. 12:21 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Bill Bow) 7. 03:03 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (RRamm52@cs.com) 8. 03:07 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Curtis Perry) 9. 03:16 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Curtis Perry) 10. 03:45 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Bill Bow) 11. 03:49 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Bill Bow) 12. 04:30 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (nico css) 13. 05:58 PM - 560A for sale in WA (Stan) 14. 06:06 PM - Re: 560A for sale in WA (nico css) 15. 10:02 PM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Curtis Perry) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:46 AM PST US From: Curtis Perry Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry To whom it may concern, we have no business interest with the owners of Aero Commander 500 N6291B S/N 683 and no disagreement with anyone. However, in January of this year we did have a complete pre-purchase inspection done on this aircraft which we think might be of interest to anyone interested in purchasing the aircraft. We offer it at a reduced price as a service to members of the wing who may be interested in purchasing the aircraft and would otherwise have to pay a significantly higher price for a second inspection. If anyone is interested we will detail the items covered. Curtis Perry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:49 AM PST US From: Curtis Perry Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry Rob, The aircraft was inspected by Kevin Coons, a long time member of the wing and a respected buyers agent for Twin Commanders. I would hope we were not "taken" and I believe the cost of the inspection was well worth it. Curt Perry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:30:19 AM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com Curt, Glad to meet you, If you paid for anything more than a 10 hour pre-buy, you wasted your money. less than 10 months before, $24,000 was spent fixing every little nut and bolt that had a hint of rust on it, as well as mostly new hydraulics....pages of details. We replaced one nose wheel line and a couple bolts in a trim tab that were too long. In the 50 hours I've flown it, she's not so much as hiccuped. Auto pilot rock steady. Starts instantly, fly's perfectly, and everything works on the next flight. And the comfort is amazing. 8 hours to Reno and not even a sore back. My Deville isn't that comfortable. 20 GPH at 190 MPH at 12000 ft.. Good to hear from you, Regards, Rob In a message dated 5/29/2005 2:08:14 AM Central Standard Time, cperry@subictel.com writes: > Rob, > > The aircraft was inspected by Kevin Coons, a long time member of the > wing and a respected buyers agent for Twin Commanders. I would hope we > were not "taken" and I believe the cost of the inspection was well > worth it. > > Curt Perry ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:37 AM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" Curtis, What's this $5,000 story? It sounds as if you were involved with the plane long before this sale and now try to rip folks off for your previous expenses. It is not the way things are done here, Dude. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com > > Curt, Glad to meet you, > If you paid for anything more than a 10 hour pre-buy, you wasted your money. > less than 10 months before, $24,000 was spent fixing every little nut and bolt > that had a hint of rust on it, as well as mostly new hydraulics....pages of > details. We replaced one nose wheel line and a couple bolts in a trim tab that > were too long. In the 50 hours I've flown it, she's not so much as hiccuped. > Auto pilot rock steady. Starts instantly, fly's perfectly, and everything works > on the next flight. And the comfort is amazing. 8 hours to Reno and not even > a sore back. My Deville isn't that comfortable. 20 GPH at 190 MPH at 12000 > ft.. Good to hear from you, > Regards, > Rob > > In a message dated 5/29/2005 2:08:14 AM Central Standard Time, > cperry@subictel.com writes: > > Rob, > > > > The aircraft was inspected by Kevin Coons, a long time member of the > > wing and a respected buyers agent for Twin Commanders. I would hope we > > were not "taken" and I believe the cost of the inspection was well > > worth it. > > > > Curt Perry > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:24 AM PST US From: N560WM@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Spinners? --> Commander-List message posted by: N560WM@aol.com I had one spinner repaired and had no problems. AB ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:08 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Did the $5,000.00 include an annual,,,,I hope? bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > Curtis, > What's this $5,000 story? It sounds as if you were involved with the plane > long before this sale and now try to rip folks off for your previous > expenses. It is not the way things are done here, Dude. > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > > >> --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com >> >> Curt, Glad to meet you, >> If you paid for anything more than a 10 hour pre-buy, you wasted your > money. >> less than 10 months before, $24,000 was spent fixing every little nut and > bolt >> that had a hint of rust on it, as well as mostly new hydraulics....pages > of >> details. We replaced one nose wheel line and a couple bolts in a trim tab > that >> were too long. In the 50 hours I've flown it, she's not so much as > hiccuped. >> Auto pilot rock steady. Starts instantly, fly's perfectly, and everything > works >> on the next flight. And the comfort is amazing. 8 hours to Reno and not > even >> a sore back. My Deville isn't that comfortable. 20 GPH at 190 MPH at >> 12000 >> ft.. Good to hear from you, >> Regards, >> Rob >> >> In a message dated 5/29/2005 2:08:14 AM Central Standard Time, >> cperry@subictel.com writes: >> > Rob, >> > >> > The aircraft was inspected by Kevin Coons, a long time member of the >> > wing and a respected buyers agent for Twin Commanders. I would hope we >> > were not "taken" and I believe the cost of the inspection was well >> > worth it. >> > >> > Curt Perry >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:14 PM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com According to the logs, Bilbo, nothing was done to her. The mechs. where we bought her said someone looked at the books and did a compression check. We had the oil changed, and a hydraulic hose on the nose wheel repaired before we flew her home. Thats all I know about. Thanks. Rob bowing74@earthlink.net writes: > > Did the $5,000.00 include an annual,,,,I hope? > > bilbo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "nico css" > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > > > >--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > >Curtis, > >What's this $5,000 story? It sounds as if you were involved with the plane > >long before this sale and now try to rip folks off for your previous > >expenses. It is not the way things are done here, Dude. > >Nico > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: > >Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > > > > > >>--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com > >> > >>Curt, Glad to meet you, > >>If you paid for anything more than a 10 hour pre-buy, you wasted your > >money. > >>less than 10 months before, $24,000 was spent fixing every little nut and > >bolt > >>that had a hint of rust on it, as well as mostly new hydraulics....pages > >of > >>details. We replaced one nose wheel line and a couple bolts in a trim tab > >that > >>were too long. In the 50 hours I've flown it, she's not so much as > >hiccuped. > >>Auto pilot rock steady. Starts instantly, fly's perfectly, and everything > >works > >>on the next flight. And the comfort is amazing. 8 hours to Reno and not > >even > >>a sore back. My Deville isn't that comfortable. 20 GPH at 190 MPH at > >>12000 > >>ft.. Good to hear from you, > >>Regards, > >>Rob > >> > >>In a message dated 5/29/2005 2:08:14 AM Central Standard Time, > >>cperry@subictel.com writes: > >>>Rob, > >>> > >>>The aircraft was inspected by Kevin Coons, a long time member of the > >>>wing and a respected buyers agent for Twin Commanders. I would hope we > >>>were not "taken" and I believe the cost of the inspection was well > >>>worth it. > >>> > >>>Curt Perry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:02 PM PST US From: Curtis Perry Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry That right dude, sorry I offended you. How do you do thing where you come from? Curt perry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:54 PM PST US From: Curtis Perry Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry The inspection includes a complete mechanical inspection by an independent IA familiar with the aircraft type flown in to inspect airframe, engines, and systems. A complete review of all aircraft repairs and modifications for correct execution. The report includes a review by Mr. Coons of all paper work to insure all ADs and modifications are correct and in order pursuant to an export C of A. The report is eight pages with attached photographs in support of all findings. And no, we did not proceed to annual which would have been required for the export C of A. Curt Perry ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:50 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" Oh. Guess I better stop before I make offend someone. bilbo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis Perry" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry > > The inspection includes a complete mechanical inspection by an > independent IA familiar with the aircraft type flown in to inspect > airframe, engines, and systems. A complete review of all aircraft > repairs and modifications for correct execution. The report includes a > review by Mr. Coons of all paper work to insure all ADs and > modifications are correct and in order pursuant to an export C of A. > The report is eight pages with attached photographs in support of all > findings. And no, we did not proceed to annual which would have been > required for the export C of A. > > Curt Perry > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:09 PM PST US From: "Bill Bow" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" (sorry didn't proof read) > Oh. Guess I better stop before I offend someone. > > bilbo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curtis Perry" > To: "not processed: message from valid local sender" > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > > >> --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry >> >> The inspection includes a complete mechanical inspection by an >> independent IA familiar with the aircraft type flown in to inspect >> airframe, engines, and systems. A complete review of all aircraft >> repairs and modifications for correct execution. The report includes a >> review by Mr. Coons of all paper work to insure all ADs and >> modifications are correct and in order pursuant to an export C of A. >> The report is eight pages with attached photographs in support of all >> findings. And no, we did not proceed to annual which would have been >> required for the export C of A. >> >> Curt Perry >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:20 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" Curt, This is where I am coming from: I infer nothing from any other source but what you and others have written on the subject. I am purely holding this up as a mirror to reflect back to you what you have written. Rob owns the plane, has spent money on her, flown her, and can personally testify as to her condition and the work done on her. We know that a pre-buy shouldn't cost more than a fraction of what your fee is for outdated services that do not rise to the level of a prudent pre-buy inspection. You, it appears now, have never consulted with the seller, but yet you are offering a bunch of paperwork and photographs for an outrageous sum of money. Your emails sound as if the service will be provided, but then you continue to speak as if it has already been completed in January. If the former, you must have an understanding with Mr. Coons that, after having flown "an independent IA familiar with the aircraft type" to the plane to inspect all sorts of systems, he will review, and certify, all paperwork to insure all matters have been complied with. If the latter, you must already be in possession of the report with Mr. Coons' signature on it. Either way, you are trying to sell unsolicited services that appear to mitigate some costs you incurred previously instead of a genuine benefit to the members. That, Dude, is what is not done here. If you have a genuine service of benefit to the members, we all will gladly listen and respond. This, however, won't fly. You didn't offend me. In my opinion your motives and business practices appear to be questionable. Perhaps the more relevant question should be "where are YOU coming from.." Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis Perry" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS > --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry > > That right dude, sorry I offended you. How do you do thing where you > come from? > > Curt perry > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:50 PM PST US From: "Stan" Subject: Commander-List: 560A for sale in WA --> Commander-List message posted by: "Stan" Hi everyone, I just got back from a trip to Twin Commander Aircraft in Arlington, WA. What a great group of people (but you already knew that)! Just in case this isn't already general knowledge: While I was at KAWO, I saw a pristine 560A that is for sale. It was owned by an avionics company that went out of business recently. Apparently, the plane was used by the company as an avionics test bed, and has what appears to be new paint, interior, and avionics. I don't know the condition of the engines, but I was told that this plane has been flown regularly and recently. I can provide several interior and exterior photos and the seller's contact information if anyone is interested. Regards, Stan ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:55 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 560A for sale in WA --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" Hi Stan, Even though I cannot entertain a purchase right now, it would be nice to have the pics since I am collecting Commander pics for my website. If you would send them directly to my email address, I will post them and let the list know so that everyone can enjoy them. Thanks Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan" Subject: Commander-List: 560A for sale in WA > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Stan" > > Hi everyone, > > I just got back from a trip to Twin Commander Aircraft in Arlington, WA. > What a great group of people (but you already knew that)! > > Just in case this isn't already general knowledge: > > While I was at KAWO, I saw a pristine 560A that is for sale. It was > owned by an avionics company that went out of business recently. > Apparently, the plane was used by the company as an avionics test bed, > and has what appears to be new paint, interior, and avionics. I don't > know the condition of the engines, but I was told that this plane has > been flown regularly and recently. I can provide several interior and > exterior photos and the seller's contact information if anyone is > interested. > > Regards, > Stan > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:17 PM PST US From: Curtis Perry Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry Nico, You seem speak for the wing on matters of ethics, prices, and practices. I've heard nothing particular from anyone other than yourself. Perhaps, it's a case of other's letting you do the speaking for them. For the sake of argument I'll assume you have a basis or authority for your representation of how things should be done, what things should cost and that you're experienced in the export of aircraft and clearly understand the requirements for FAA issuance of a C of A. I'll ignore the personal insults to myself and to the people who produced the report and simply state again the situation so it is clearly understood by everyone who's reading this exchange and they can be free to make their own determination. We have not offered any service, or requested any fees. We have not taken any position regarding the aircraft and we have clearly stated we have no business or other interest in the sale, or the purchase of the aircraft and that we have no bones to pick with anyone, including yourself. I'll assume you're in the same position. The inspection report was purchased from a reputable person with extensive knowledgeable in the aircraft type and the mechanical inspection was done by an independent mechanic knowledgeable on the aircraft type. We've stated what the report contains and when it was accomplished. Anyone who wants the report should clearly understand it reflects the work done as of 22 January 2005 and that some aspects of the aircraft obviously may have changed in the intervening time period. The price paid for any report is determined by market dictates -- as is any price. The price of any pre-purchase inspection report (or any Due Diligence report for that matter) normally reflects the amount of expertise, effort and detail which go into it. However, we have not claimed the the report was purchased at the best price available. We do believe it is a valuable asset which honestly represents the aircraft as it was on 22 January 2005. As it is a report we no longer have a use for we have offered it for sale, much as we sell parts we no longer have a use for. We have not offered the report at any specific price; we've simply said it is available. What is paid for any item is normally an agreement between knowledgeable buyers and sellers. This appears to offend to you and you are free to write your opinion. I see nothing wrong with it and believe it is an attempt to be helpful. What I do not see as helpful under any circumstances is personal insults and believe these should be kept off the site. If you wish to discuss it further. although I see little you want to offer that you've not already provided, please feel free to email me directly at cperry@subictel.com. Curt