Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:01 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (nico css)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Curtis Perry)
3. 07:07 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Tom Fisher)
4. 07:29 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (nico css)
5. 09:17 AM - Re: /AC500 OWNERS COMMENTS/WHAT REALLY HAPPENED (RRamm52@cs.com)
6. 11:14 AM - Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS (Bill Bow)
7. 01:56 PM - Re: "THE fan" (Chris Schuermann)
8. 09:13 PM - Re: Re: "THE fan" ()
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Curtis,
I am not speaking for the list, and have nowhere inferred that I do. I went
through my responses again and found no insults in them but merely a
reflection of what you have said about yourself. Nothing more and nothing
less. If what you gave us to work with, when reflected back to you, sounded
to you like insults, imagine what a stretch it was for us to deal with,
having no knowledge of you nor your operation.
Curtis, I have no bone to pick with you or anyone else nor do I wish to
impugn anyone's integrity. Folks make a living in various ways which is
perfectly fine. It was rather odd, you must admit, that selling a couple of
reports and photographs, mentioning $5,000 as the price your paid for it,
stating that people would be flown in to inspect the plane, Mr. Coons to
review the paperwork, causing the owner to publish a disclaimer that they
have no knowledge of your involvement in the plane, did not testify
wholesomely of your operation. And you are the sole architect of that.
For instance, we now learn in this email that you bought the report from
someone else, while you led us to believe that you "did have a complete
pre-purchase inspection done". Which is it now? Do you see what I mean?
Other inconsistencies in your correspondence doesn't sound right and your
facts don't add up. Why should anyone on this list not take you on?
If you put what you wrote now next to what you wrote in your solicitation
for buyers, one would be hard-pressed to believe they were written by the
same operation for the same services.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Perry" <cperry@subictel.com>
<commander-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry <cperry@subictel.com>
>
> Nico,
>
> You seem speak for the wing on matters of ethics, prices, and
> practices. I've heard nothing particular from anyone other than
> yourself. Perhaps, it's a case of other's letting you do the speaking
> for them.
>
> For the sake of argument I'll assume you have a basis or authority for
> your representation of how things should be done, what things should
> cost and that you're experienced in the export of aircraft and clearly
> understand the requirements for FAA issuance of a C of A. I'll ignore
> the personal insults to myself and to the people who produced the
> report and simply state again the situation so it is clearly understood
> by everyone who's reading this exchange and they can be free to make
> their own determination.
>
> We have not offered any service, or requested any fees. We have not
> taken any position regarding the aircraft and we have clearly stated we
> have no business or other interest in the sale, or the purchase of the
> aircraft and that we have no bones to pick with anyone, including
> yourself. I'll assume you're in the same position.
>
> The inspection report was purchased from a reputable person with
> extensive knowledgeable in the aircraft type and the mechanical
> inspection was done by an independent mechanic knowledgeable on the
> aircraft type. We've stated what the report contains and when it was
> accomplished. Anyone who wants the report should clearly understand it
> reflects the work done as of 22 January 2005 and that some aspects of
> the aircraft obviously may have changed in the intervening time period.
>
> The price paid for any report is determined by market dictates -- as is
> any price. The price of any pre-purchase inspection report (or any Due
> Diligence report for that matter) normally reflects the amount of
> expertise, effort and detail which go into it. However, we have not
> claimed the the report was purchased at the best price available. We do
> believe it is a valuable asset which honestly represents the aircraft
> as it was on 22 January 2005. As it is a report we no longer have a
> use for we have offered it for sale, much as we sell parts we no longer
> have a use for. We have not offered the report at any specific price;
> we've simply said it is available. What is paid for any item is
> normally an agreement between knowledgeable buyers and sellers.
>
> This appears to offend to you and you are free to write your opinion.
> I see nothing wrong with it and believe it is an attempt to be helpful.
> What I do not see as helpful under any circumstances is personal
> insults and believe these should be kept off the site. If you wish to
> discuss it further. although I see little you want to offer that you've
> not already provided, please feel free to email me directly at
> cperry@subictel.com.
>
> Curt
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS |
--> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry <cperry@subictel.com>
Nico,
Now you are just flat not telling the truth Nico and there is nothing
worse than a liar except a coward.
> To begin with my email message of 5/28 said "If anyone is interested
> in the purchase of this aircraft we have a complete inspection report
> on Aero Commander 500 N6291B S/N 683 as well as documented history of
> the aircraft which we paid $5,000 for in January of 2005 (30 hours
> ago) which we'd provide for significantly less." Nothing more or
> less. What I said in the last message was " We have not offered any
> service, or requested any fees. We have not taken any position
> regarding the aircraft and we have clearly stated we have no business
> or other interest in the sale, or the purchase of the aircraft and
> that we have no bones to pick with anyone, including yourself. I'll
> assume you're in the same position.
The inspection report was purchased from a reputable person with
extensive knowledge in the aircraft type and the mechanical inspection
was done by an independent mechanic knowledgeable on the aircraft type.
We've stated what the report contains and when it was accomplished.
Anyone who wants the report should clearly understand it reflects the
work done as of 22 January 2005 and that some aspects of the aircraft
obviously may have changed in the intervening time period.
The price paid for any report is determined by market dictates -- as is
any price. The price of any pre-purchase inspection report (or any Due
Diligence report for that matter) normally reflects the amount of
expertise, effort and detail which go into it. However, we have not
claimed the the report was purchased at the best price available. We do
believe it is a valuable asset which honestly represents the aircraft
as it was on 22 January 2005. As it is a report we no longer have a
use for we have offered it for sale, much as we sell parts we no longer
have a use for. We have not offered the report at any specific price;
we've simply said it is available. What is paid for any item is
normally an agreement between knowledgeable buyers and sellers."
Your responses which use, among other words, extortion, fraud, rip off
and other terms are insulting as is your use of the term "dude" which
sounds like a refugee from the 60's long hair pot smoking crowd. What
are your grounds for terms like "now try to rip folks off" or "We know
that a pre-buy shouldn't cost more than a fraction of what your fee is"
if it is not to insult? If you don't presume to speak for the wing
what is your basis for saying " That, Dude, is what is not done here?"
Knock the crap off Nico, what's your interest in this?
I served America and the US Government for 15 years overseas in Asia
and have operated an FAA 145 repair station for a considerable time. I
don't look for a fight Nico, but I don't run either. I don't know what
sort of expert you are or what your motives are in this case, but if
you have the ca-hones let's make this real personal now. I've given
you my personal email address, now for further reference my phone
number is 011 6347 252 7042 and the mailing address is hanger 8324
Subic Bay International Airport SMBA -- I expect any man of substance
to respond in kind. Libel is still an offense, even in the USA and even
for a "Dude. " I'll be more than glad to have counsel contact you for
further discussion on your choice of words -- all the emails are in the
public domain and recorded and we will see who has violated which laws
and violates what ethics.
Curt Perry
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Both of you should stop this pissing contest, you are just making matters
worse.
Cut your losses and walk away from this escalating issue.....
Curt Perry is obviously upset that he paid $5,000.00 for something he did
not follow through with and is trying any opportunity to recover some of his
losses, nothing wrong with that if his intentions are clearly stated.
Nico thought there might be something fishy with the wording of Curt's Email
and merely pointed it out, nothing wrong with that.
What does "I served America and the US Government for 15 years overseas in
Asia" have anything to do with anything here?
Tom F.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Perry" <cperry@subictel.com>
<commander-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry <cperry@subictel.com>
>
> Nico,
>
> Now you are just flat not telling the truth Nico and there is nothing
> worse than a liar except a coward.
>
> > To begin with my email message of 5/28 said "If anyone is interested
> > in the purchase of this aircraft we have a complete inspection report
> > on Aero Commander 500 N6291B S/N 683 as well as documented history of
> > the aircraft which we paid $5,000 for in January of 2005 (30 hours
> > ago) which we'd provide for significantly less." Nothing more or
> > less. What I said in the last message was " We have not offered any
> > service, or requested any fees. We have not taken any position
> > regarding the aircraft and we have clearly stated we have no business
> > or other interest in the sale, or the purchase of the aircraft and
> > that we have no bones to pick with anyone, including yourself. I'll
> > assume you're in the same position.
>
> The inspection report was purchased from a reputable person with
> extensive knowledge in the aircraft type and the mechanical inspection
> was done by an independent mechanic knowledgeable on the aircraft type.
> We've stated what the report contains and when it was accomplished.
> Anyone who wants the report should clearly understand it reflects the
> work done as of 22 January 2005 and that some aspects of the aircraft
> obviously may have changed in the intervening time period.
>
> The price paid for any report is determined by market dictates -- as is
> any price. The price of any pre-purchase inspection report (or any Due
> Diligence report for that matter) normally reflects the amount of
> expertise, effort and detail which go into it. However, we have not
> claimed the the report was purchased at the best price available. We do
> believe it is a valuable asset which honestly represents the aircraft
> as it was on 22 January 2005. As it is a report we no longer have a
> use for we have offered it for sale, much as we sell parts we no longer
> have a use for. We have not offered the report at any specific price;
> we've simply said it is available. What is paid for any item is
> normally an agreement between knowledgeable buyers and sellers."
>
> Your responses which use, among other words, extortion, fraud, rip off
> and other terms are insulting as is your use of the term "dude" which
> sounds like a refugee from the 60's long hair pot smoking crowd. What
> are your grounds for terms like "now try to rip folks off" or "We know
> that a pre-buy shouldn't cost more than a fraction of what your fee is"
> if it is not to insult? If you don't presume to speak for the wing
> what is your basis for saying " That, Dude, is what is not done here?"
> Knock the crap off Nico, what's your interest in this?
>
> I served America and the US Government for 15 years overseas in Asia
> and have operated an FAA 145 repair station for a considerable time. I
> don't look for a fight Nico, but I don't run either. I don't know what
> sort of expert you are or what your motives are in this case, but if
> you have the ca-hones let's make this real personal now. I've given
> you my personal email address, now for further reference my phone
> number is 011 6347 252 7042 and the mailing address is hanger 8324
> Subic Bay International Airport SMBA -- I expect any man of substance
> to respond in kind. Libel is still an offense, even in the USA and even
> for a "Dude. " I'll be more than glad to have counsel contact you for
> further discussion on your choice of words -- all the emails are in the
> public domain and recorded and we will see who has violated which laws
> and violates what ethics.
>
> Curt Perry
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Curtis,
If there was any doubt in your initial correspondence, this one removed all
doubt.
I seek no confrontation with you but if you wish to have your legal counsel
waste your money, go ahead.
As far as I am concerned, this discussion is over.
Nico
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Perry" <cperry@subictel.com>
<commander-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS
> --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry <cperry@subictel.com>
>
> Nico,
>
> Now you are just flat not telling the truth Nico and there is nothing
> worse than a liar except a coward.
>
> > To begin with my email message of 5/28 said "If anyone is interested
> > in the purchase of this aircraft we have a complete inspection report
> > on Aero Commander 500 N6291B S/N 683 as well as documented history of
> > the aircraft which we paid $5,000 for in January of 2005 (30 hours
> > ago) which we'd provide for significantly less." Nothing more or
> > less. What I said in the last message was " We have not offered any
> > service, or requested any fees. We have not taken any position
> > regarding the aircraft and we have clearly stated we have no business
> > or other interest in the sale, or the purchase of the aircraft and
> > that we have no bones to pick with anyone, including yourself. I'll
> > assume you're in the same position.
>
> The inspection report was purchased from a reputable person with
> extensive knowledge in the aircraft type and the mechanical inspection
> was done by an independent mechanic knowledgeable on the aircraft type.
> We've stated what the report contains and when it was accomplished.
> Anyone who wants the report should clearly understand it reflects the
> work done as of 22 January 2005 and that some aspects of the aircraft
> obviously may have changed in the intervening time period.
>
> The price paid for any report is determined by market dictates -- as is
> any price. The price of any pre-purchase inspection report (or any Due
> Diligence report for that matter) normally reflects the amount of
> expertise, effort and detail which go into it. However, we have not
> claimed the the report was purchased at the best price available. We do
> believe it is a valuable asset which honestly represents the aircraft
> as it was on 22 January 2005. As it is a report we no longer have a
> use for we have offered it for sale, much as we sell parts we no longer
> have a use for. We have not offered the report at any specific price;
> we've simply said it is available. What is paid for any item is
> normally an agreement between knowledgeable buyers and sellers."
>
> Your responses which use, among other words, extortion, fraud, rip off
> and other terms are insulting as is your use of the term "dude" which
> sounds like a refugee from the 60's long hair pot smoking crowd. What
> are your grounds for terms like "now try to rip folks off" or "We know
> that a pre-buy shouldn't cost more than a fraction of what your fee is"
> if it is not to insult? If you don't presume to speak for the wing
> what is your basis for saying " That, Dude, is what is not done here?"
> Knock the crap off Nico, what's your interest in this?
>
> I served America and the US Government for 15 years overseas in Asia
> and have operated an FAA 145 repair station for a considerable time. I
> don't look for a fight Nico, but I don't run either. I don't know what
> sort of expert you are or what your motives are in this case, but if
> you have the ca-hones let's make this real personal now. I've given
> you my personal email address, now for further reference my phone
> number is 011 6347 252 7042 and the mailing address is hanger 8324
> Subic Bay International Airport SMBA -- I expect any man of substance
> to respond in kind. Libel is still an offense, even in the USA and even
> for a "Dude. " I'll be more than glad to have counsel contact you for
> further discussion on your choice of words -- all the emails are in the
> public domain and recorded and we will see who has violated which laws
> and violates what ethics.
>
> Curt Perry
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: /AC500 OWNERS COMMENTS/WHAT REALLY HAPPENED |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
This is an Email I got from Kevin Coons on 05-21. He and Curtis are bitter
because they screwed up. Period. The airplane is real nice.
Rob
In a message dated 5/21/2005 1:48:13 PM Central Standard Time,
kevincoons@cavucompanies.net writes:
>
> Rob,
>
>
> You guys just bought that 500 in January. I am really curious as to why you
> are selling it so soon.
>
>
> I looked at that plane 4 days before you purchased it and Barron Thomas
> being the low life that he is sold it even though I had a $7,000 deposit on the
> airplane. My ill will is not directed towards you, it is directed towards
> Barron.
>
>
> I just find it weird that you are selling it after you flew all over the
> country looking for the perfect airplane and everything that you have written
on
> the website indicates that you are very pleased with her.
>
>
> BTW, I have a CD from the FAA that has the complete history of your
> airplane. Even the 100 pounds or Mary Jane that some guys got busted with=20in
the 1980=E2=80=99
> s. If you give me your mailing address I=E2=80=99ll forward it to you so you
can
> pass along to the new owner.
>
>
> Kevin Coons
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Bill Bow" <bowing74@earthlink.net>
Wow! "It" hasn't hit the fan like this since the great "Sump" discussion of
'01.
bilbo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher"
> <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
>
> Both of you should stop this pissing contest, you are just making matters
> worse.
> Cut your losses and walk away from this escalating issue.....
>
> Curt Perry is obviously upset that he paid $5,000.00 for something he did
> not follow through with and is trying any opportunity to recover some of
> his
> losses, nothing wrong with that if his intentions are clearly stated.
>
> Nico thought there might be something fishy with the wording of Curt's
> Email
> and merely pointed it out, nothing wrong with that.
>
> What does "I served America and the US Government for 15 years overseas in
> Asia" have anything to do with anything here?
>
> Tom F.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curtis Perry" <cperry@subictel.com>
> To: "not processed: message from valid local sender"
> <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fly in/AC500 link/photos/OWNERS COMMENTS
>
>
>> --> Commander-List message posted by: Curtis Perry <cperry@subictel.com>
>>
>> Nico,
>>
>> Now you are just flat not telling the truth Nico and there is nothing
>> worse than a liar except a coward.
>>
>> > To begin with my email message of 5/28 said "If anyone is interested
>> > in the purchase of this aircraft we have a complete inspection report
>> > on Aero Commander 500 N6291B S/N 683 as well as documented history of
>> > the aircraft which we paid $5,000 for in January of 2005 (30 hours
>> > ago) which we'd provide for significantly less." Nothing more or
>> > less. What I said in the last message was " We have not offered any
>> > service, or requested any fees. We have not taken any position
>> > regarding the aircraft and we have clearly stated we have no business
>> > or other interest in the sale, or the purchase of the aircraft and
>> > that we have no bones to pick with anyone, including yourself. I'll
>> > assume you're in the same position.
>>
>> The inspection report was purchased from a reputable person with
>> extensive knowledge in the aircraft type and the mechanical inspection
>> was done by an independent mechanic knowledgeable on the aircraft type.
>> We've stated what the report contains and when it was accomplished.
>> Anyone who wants the report should clearly understand it reflects the
>> work done as of 22 January 2005 and that some aspects of the aircraft
>> obviously may have changed in the intervening time period.
>>
>> The price paid for any report is determined by market dictates -- as is
>> any price. The price of any pre-purchase inspection report (or any Due
>> Diligence report for that matter) normally reflects the amount of
>> expertise, effort and detail which go into it. However, we have not
>> claimed the the report was purchased at the best price available. We do
>> believe it is a valuable asset which honestly represents the aircraft
>> as it was on 22 January 2005. As it is a report we no longer have a
>> use for we have offered it for sale, much as we sell parts we no longer
>> have a use for. We have not offered the report at any specific price;
>> we've simply said it is available. What is paid for any item is
>> normally an agreement between knowledgeable buyers and sellers."
>>
>> Your responses which use, among other words, extortion, fraud, rip off
>> and other terms are insulting as is your use of the term "dude" which
>> sounds like a refugee from the 60's long hair pot smoking crowd. What
>> are your grounds for terms like "now try to rip folks off" or "We know
>> that a pre-buy shouldn't cost more than a fraction of what your fee is"
>> if it is not to insult? If you don't presume to speak for the wing
>> what is your basis for saying " That, Dude, is what is not done here?"
>> Knock the crap off Nico, what's your interest in this?
>>
>> I served America and the US Government for 15 years overseas in Asia
>> and have operated an FAA 145 repair station for a considerable time. I
>> don't look for a fight Nico, but I don't run either. I don't know what
>> sort of expert you are or what your motives are in this case, but if
>> you have the ca-hones let's make this real personal now. I've given
>> you my personal email address, now for further reference my phone
>> number is 011 6347 252 7042 and the mailing address is hanger 8324
>> Subic Bay International Airport SMBA -- I expect any man of substance
>> to respond in kind. Libel is still an offense, even in the USA and even
>> for a "Dude. " I'll be more than glad to have counsel contact you for
>> further discussion on your choice of words -- all the emails are in the
>> public domain and recorded and we will see who has violated which laws
>> and violates what ethics.
>>
>> Curt Perry
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann <cschuerm@cox.net>
Bill Bow wrote:
> Wow! "It" hasn't hit the fan like this since the great "Sump" discussion of
> '01.
Yup...and for the life of me, I'm still pretty baffled by the noise.
Interesting info about B-T though. I'd heard negative comments before
but always 3rd hand.
I wonder how many subscribers there are to the commander list these
days. Prior to the changeover to matronics, we had 182 subscribers.
Some days I get all nostalgic and want to work on a moderated list again
and renovate the web site with some new activity..... then I remember
what a pain it was and get on with my day :-)
Maybe it's time to create a PA23 type club - there doesn't seem to be
one in existance amazingly.
chris
Message 8
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--> Commander-List message posted by: <dfalik@sbcglobal.net>
Hey, I've got a PA23 and a 500 Shrike, may we could combine the web site
to accommodate both.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Schuermann
Subject: Commander-List: Re: "THE fan"
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris Schuermann
<cschuerm@cox.net>
Bill Bow wrote:
> Wow! "It" hasn't hit the fan like this since the great "Sump"
discussion of
> '01.
Yup...and for the life of me, I'm still pretty baffled by the noise.
Interesting info about B-T though. I'd heard negative comments before
but always 3rd hand.
I wonder how many subscribers there are to the commander list these
days. Prior to the changeover to matronics, we had 182 subscribers.
Some days I get all nostalgic and want to work on a moderated list again
and renovate the web site with some new activity..... then I remember
what a pain it was and get on with my day :-)
Maybe it's time to create a PA23 type club - there doesn't seem to be
one in existance amazingly.
chris
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