---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/25/05: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:16 PM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 (Dan Farmer) 2. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Wt. and balance (RRamm52@cs.com) 3. 06:50 PM - Re: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 (Alan Kucheck) 4. 07:09 PM - First Angel Flight today (Alan Kucheck) 5. 08:24 PM - Re: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 (Lowell Girod) 6. 09:20 PM - Re: First Angel Flight today (nico css) 7. 10:07 PM - Re: First Angel Flight today (Alan Kucheck) 8. 10:10 PM - Re: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 (John Vormbaum) 9. 10:36 PM - Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 (John Vormbaum) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:47 PM PST US From: Dan Farmer Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for information on wt and balance. I also believe I have an ignorance on this subject when it comes to commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I have read that statement before and always thought it was used for example purposes only, however upon further examination I believe it is meant to be true. What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 of weights and moments there is only moments for passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for various weights. That only leaves an assumption of direct correlation between weight and moment of the passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty weight of the airplane. Could someone with knowledge in this area please splain all this to me. dan farmer 6369U --- Commander-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be > found in either of the > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > the Digest formatted > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > Hyperlinked Indexes > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > plain ASCII version > of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with > a generic text editor > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06-23.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06-23.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > Commander-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Thu > 06/23/05: 5 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget > Watson) > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52@cs.com) > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis > Polito) > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk@earthlink.net) > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 06:09:33 AM PST US > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Andrew & > Bridget Watson" > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I > thought he was a big > @#!&! > > :-) > > Andrew. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "nico css" > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA > along the same lines > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang > out for many years, > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the > Waterkloof air force base > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and > over the city of Pretoria. > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over > the city because of > > military activities there. > > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air > traffic controller, Dirk > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would > interfere and lecture > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and > over the radio. It was a > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and > ask him questions just > > to see him light up and part with his superior > intellect and knowledge, > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to > the airport were > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane > and frivolous > > information, just to introduce them to this guy. > > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the > tower while he was > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots, > workers, and everyone who > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and > antics of which depended upon > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford > him the most bragging > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing > instructions and the pilot > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city > of Pretoria.' Apparently > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he > couldn't believe his luck that > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd > observing him in action. > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior > height about the restricted > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of > other violations which Dirk > > now has the power to either report or forgive the > hapless pilot for this > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce > was when he instructed the > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after > landing. The real torture > > was about to occur when the pilo! > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person. > > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While > silence fell on everyone > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot > stumble and apologize, the > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am > the officer commanding > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will > fly whenever and where > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my > position but to provide > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand > that simple instruction or > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when > I get there?" > > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it > was long overdue, but > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the > guy for a moment or so > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time > afterwards. I just did it > > again. > > > > Nico > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio > conversation between a > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the > coast of Newfoundland > > in October 1995. > > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees > North to avoid a > > collision. > > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 > degrees South to avoid > > collision. > > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; > I say again divert your > > course. > > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR > course. > > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT > VESSELS. === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:02 PM PST US From: RRamm52@cs.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Wt. and balance --> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com Dan, Even tho' the weight may change, the MOMENT of that weight will remain the same. The moment is the distance the weight is from the "zero" point used by the aircraft manufacturer. So if the moment of the passenger behind the pilot is figured at[do not worry about seat travel, it doesn't count] 100.00 inches @ 170 lbs. the arm would be 17,000. If the passenger weighed 210 lbs, it would still be at the 100.00 inch moment and the arm would be 21,000. The point the factory uses for the start or "zero" can be anywhere, but once its determined for that aircraft, its set in stone. Anything forward of it is a minus, anything aft is a plus. Hope this helps, Rob In a message dated 6/25/2005 7:18:53 PM Central Standard Time, daniellfarmer@yahoo.com writes: > From:daniellfarmer@yahoo.com > Reply-to:commander-list@matronics.com > To:commander-list@matronics.com > Received from Internet: > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for > information on wt and balance. I also believe I have > an ignorance on this subject when it comes to > commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B > approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger > weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I > have read that statement before and always thought it > was used for example purposes only, however upon > further examination I believe it is meant to be true. > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 > of weights and moments there is only moments for > passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment > table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for > passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for > various weights. That only leaves an assumption of > direct correlation between weight and moment of the > passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about > assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack > of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty > weight of the airplane. > > Could someone with knowledge in this area please > splain all this to me. > dan farmer > 6369U ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:50 PM PST US From: "Alan Kucheck" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" Dan: Somehow the W&B stuff was missing from my 500A when I acquired it. TCAC was happy to send [for a hefty fee!] copies of the original "Work Release Order" showing all factory installed quipment and their weights and moments. Cool data. Or course, the plane has changed a lot in the interim. ;>) Regarding pax weight: I see no reason why this this would not be a linear thing: as far as I'm concerned, if you have a really wide guy in the right seat weighing in at 340, his moment would be 32. The the fuel and baggage tables [my page 4 of 4] confirm that, to my way of thinking. Oil: my page 3 0f 4 shows oil [6.0 gal] at 45#, Arm = +146 Moment/1000=6.57. It *is* included in my EW. The other thing that became clear to me when doing some exercises with the numbers for my plane: it seems the *only* way I can be out of CG is if I have another guy my size [about 220] up front and we fly the thing down to about 15 gallons. Then I'm out of CG forward. I don't expect to ever have only 15 gallons in the tanks, but if somehow I do and I have a big guy next to me, I'm sending him to the back a part my my pre-landing checklist. ;>) Alan > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > Of Dan Farmer > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:16 PM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > --> > > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for information > on wt and balance. I also believe I have an ignorance on > this subject when it comes to commanders. In the wt and > balance section of my 500B approved flight manual page 2 it > states "Passenger weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per > person". I have read that statement before and always > thought it was used for example purposes only, however upon > further examination I believe it is meant to be true. > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 of > weights and moments there is only moments for passengers > weighing 170# each. There is a moment table for various fuel > and baggage loads but none for passengers. It does not > mention extrapolating for various weights. That only leaves > an assumption of direct correlation between weight and moment > of the passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about > assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack of a > moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty weight of > the airplane. > > Could someone with knowledge in this area please splain all > this to me. > dan farmer > 6369U > > --- Commander-List Digest Server > wrote: > > > * > > > > ================================================== > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================== > > > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in > either of > > the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > > Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes > > the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and > can be viewed > > with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande > r-List.2005-06-23.html > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande > r-List.2005-06-23.txt > > > > > > ================================================ > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================ > > > > > > > > > > Commander-List Digest Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Thu > > 06/23/05: 5 > > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget > > Watson) > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52@cs.com) > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis > > Polito) > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk@earthlink.net) > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:09:33 AM PST US > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" > > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Andrew & > > Bridget Watson" > > > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I > > thought he was a big > > @#!&! > > > > :-) > > > > Andrew. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "nico css" > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > > > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA > > along the same lines > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang > > out for many years, > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the > > Waterkloof air force base > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and > > over the city of Pretoria. > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over > > the city because of > > > military activities there. > > > > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air > > traffic controller, Dirk > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would > > interfere and lecture > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and > > over the radio. It was a > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and > > ask him questions just > > > to see him light up and part with his superior > > intellect and knowledge, > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to > > the airport were > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane > > and frivolous > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy. > > > > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the > > tower while he was > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots, > > workers, and everyone who > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and > > antics of which depended upon > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford > > him the most bragging > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing > > instructions and the pilot > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city > > of Pretoria.' Apparently > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he > > couldn't believe his luck that > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd > > observing him in action. > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior > > height about the restricted > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of > > other violations which Dirk > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the > > hapless pilot for this > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce > > was when he instructed the > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after > > landing. The real torture > > > was about to occur when the pilo! > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person. > > > > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While > > silence fell on everyone > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot > > stumble and apologize, the > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am > > the officer commanding > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will > > fly whenever and where > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my > > position but to provide > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand > > that simple instruction or > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when > > I get there?" > > > > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it > > was long overdue, but > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the > > guy for a moment or so > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time > > afterwards. I just did it > > > again. > > > > > > Nico > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio > > conversation between a > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the > > coast of Newfoundland > > > in October 1995. > > > > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees > > North to avoid a > > > collision. > > > > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 > > degrees South to avoid > > > collision. > > > > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; > > I say again divert your > > > course. > > > > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR > > course. > > > > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT > > VESSELS. > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > -- > 6/24/2005 > > -- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:30 PM PST US From: "Alan Kucheck" Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical issues and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule myself for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks ago but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip! Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He asked my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the firefighting that is going on there now. It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight - my first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes. Alan -- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:55 PM PST US From: "Lowell Girod" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 --> Commander-List message posted by: "Lowell Girod" Dan; The airlines all use the same weights, (170 lbs) however I think it is plus 10 lbs. in the winter. A real joke as this includes carry on baggage. However if you want to figure it and figure it correctly, it's like Rob says, just multiply the actual weight times the arm to get the moment (position from the data line, which is usually out in front of the nose of the aircraft, if it's not in front of the nose, you can get negative figures which you just subtract), (wt. in lbs. x arm in inches equals moment) take this figure and add them all together. You should only need to figure passenger weight and moment, fuel, weight and moment and cargo or baggage weight and moment, the rest should be figured in the chart for your aircraft, and compare it to the chart. You just need to be within the forward and rear CG limits then you only have to be concerned with Max.gross weights. Been a few years since I had to figure all this by hand but as I recall this is correct. The airlines are then allowed to subtract half the adult weight for children if weight becomes a problem for field conditions or second segment climb. These figures are used in case of an engine failure at the critical point of flight. Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you. If so I will try again. Don > [Original Message] > From: Dan Farmer > To: > Date: 6/25/2005 8:16:22 PM > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for > information on wt and balance. I also believe I have > an ignorance on this subject when it comes to > commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B > approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger > weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I > have read that statement before and always thought it > was used for example purposes only, however upon > further examination I believe it is meant to be true. > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 > of weights and moments there is only moments for > passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment > table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for > passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for > various weights. That only leaves an assumption of > direct correlation between weight and moment of the > passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about > assuming. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack > of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty > weight of the airplane. > > Could someone with knowledge in this area please > splain all this to me. > dan farmer > 6369U > > --- Commander-List Digest Server > wrote: > > > * > > > > ================================================== > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================== > > > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be > > found in either of the > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes > > the Digest formatted > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > > Hyperlinked Indexes > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the > > plain ASCII version > > of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with > > a generic text editor > > such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06 -23.html > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06 -23.txt > > > > > > ================================================ > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================ > > > > > > > > > > Commander-List Digest > > Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Thu > > 06/23/05: 5 > > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget > > Watson) > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52@cs.com) > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis > > Polito) > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk@earthlink.net) > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 06:09:33 AM PST US > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" > > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Andrew & > > Bridget Watson" > > > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I > > thought he was a big > > @#!&! > > > > :-) > > > > Andrew. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "nico css" > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > > > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA > > along the same lines > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang > > out for many years, > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the > > Waterkloof air force base > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and > > over the city of Pretoria. > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over > > the city because of > > > military activities there. > > > > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air > > traffic controller, Dirk > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would > > interfere and lecture > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and > > over the radio. It was a > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and > > ask him questions just > > > to see him light up and part with his superior > > intellect and knowledge, > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to > > the airport were > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane > > and frivolous > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy. > > > > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the > > tower while he was > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots, > > workers, and everyone who > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and > > antics of which depended upon > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford > > him the most bragging > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing > > instructions and the pilot > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city > > of Pretoria.' Apparently > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he > > couldn't believe his luck that > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd > > observing him in action. > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior > > height about the restricted > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of > > other violations which Dirk > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the > > hapless pilot for this > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce > > was when he instructed the > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after > > landing. The real torture > > > was about to occur when the pilo! > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person. > > > > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While > > silence fell on everyone > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot > > stumble and apologize, the > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am > > the officer commanding > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will > > fly whenever and where > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my > > position but to provide > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand > > that simple instruction or > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when > > I get there?" > > > > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it > > was long overdue, but > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the > > guy for a moment or so > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time > > afterwards. I just did it > > > again. > > > > > > Nico > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio > > conversation between a > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the > > coast of Newfoundland > > > in October 1995. > > > > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees > > North to avoid a > > > collision. > > > > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 > > degrees South to avoid > > > collision. > > > > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; > > I say again divert your > > > course. > > > > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR > > course. > > > > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT > > VESSELS. > === message truncated === > > > -- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:58 PM PST US From: "nico css" Subject: Re: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" Alan I was playing tennis this morning (Saturday) at Hidden Hills (Between Camarillo and (closer to) Van Nuys) when at about 9 AM or so a turbine Commander passed overhead. Fortunately it was my serve so the boys waited till I was done gawking. Was that you? Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kucheck" Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical issues > and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule myself > for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks ago > but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip! > > Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from > Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I > coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He asked > my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero > Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were > about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the > firefighting that is going on there now. > > It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight - my > first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a > great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few > hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise > have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes. > > Alan > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:10 PM PST US From: "Alan Kucheck" Subject: RE: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" No, Nico, I'm a piston guy [500A]. We arrived at CMA at 1:30PM after fighting a 45Kt headwind for the first half of the trip. Climbing out from VGT the GS read: 82Kts. Haven't seen that in a while. ak > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > Of nico css > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:27 PM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > --> > > Alan > I was playing tennis this morning (Saturday) at Hidden Hills > (Between Camarillo and (closer to) Van Nuys) when at about 9 > AM or so a turbine Commander passed overhead. Fortunately it > was my serve so the boys waited till I was done gawking. > Was that you? > Nico > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Kucheck" > To: > Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > > > > I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but > mechanical > issues > > and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able > to schedule > myself > > for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a > couple of weeks > ago > > but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip! > > > > Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take > a patient from > > Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a > Seneca, and I > > coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the > transfer. He > asked > > my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him > it was an Aero > > Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. > At VGT there > were > > about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as > spotters for the > > firefighting that is going on there now. > > > > It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double > rookie" flight - > my > > first AF mission and the patient's first time in small > planes. She was a > > great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to > spend a few > > hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might > otherwise > > have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes. > > > > Alan > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > 6/24/2005 > > -- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:33 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Alan, That's exactly what I learned in my Commander-specific training, where they made me do numerous W the *only* way you can be out of CG in a Commander is if you have nearly empty tanks and a REALLY BIG guy in the copilot seat. I'm with you, on the pre-landing checklist. My airplane used to fly cargo and still has some of those interior peculiarities....so if I needed to, I could stuff that fat guy through the aft bulkhead into the baggage hold. Wouldn't be pretty though. /John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Kucheck" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > Dan: > > Somehow the W&B stuff was missing from my 500A when I acquired it. TCAC was > happy to send [for a hefty fee!] copies of the original "Work Release > Order" showing all factory installed quipment and their weights and moments. > Cool data. Or course, the plane has changed a lot in the interim. ;>) > > Regarding pax weight: I see no reason why this this would not be a linear > thing: as far as I'm concerned, if you have a really wide guy in the right > seat weighing in at 340, his moment would be 32. The the fuel and baggage > tables [my page 4 of 4] confirm that, to my way of thinking. > > Oil: my page 3 0f 4 shows oil [6.0 gal] at 45#, Arm = +146 > Moment/1000=6.57. It *is* included in my EW. > > The other thing that became clear to me when doing some exercises with the > numbers for my plane: it seems the *only* way I can be out of CG is if I > have another guy my size [about 220] up front and we fly the thing down to > about 15 gallons. Then I'm out of CG forward. I don't expect to ever have > only 15 gallons in the tanks, but if somehow I do and I have a big guy next > to me, I'm sending him to the back a part my my pre-landing checklist. ;>) > > Alan > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > > Of Dan Farmer > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:16 PM > > To: commander-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > > --> > > > > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for information > > on wt and balance. I also believe I have an ignorance on > > this subject when it comes to commanders. In the wt and > > balance section of my 500B approved flight manual page 2 it > > states "Passenger weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per > > person". I have read that statement before and always > > thought it was used for example purposes only, however upon > > further examination I believe it is meant to be true. > > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 of > > weights and moments there is only moments for passengers > > weighing 170# each. There is a moment table for various fuel > > and baggage loads but none for passengers. It does not > > mention extrapolating for various weights. That only leaves > > an assumption of direct correlation between weight and moment > > of the passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about > > assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack of a > > moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty weight of > > the airplane. > > > > Could someone with knowledge in this area please splain all > > this to me. > > dan farmer > > 6369U > > > > --- Commander-List Digest Server > > wrote: > > > > > * > > > > > > ================================================== > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > ================================================== > > > > > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in > > either of > > > the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > > > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > > > Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes > > > the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and > > can be viewed > > > with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande > > r-List.2005-06-23.html > > > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande > > r-List.2005-06-23.txt > > > > > > > > > ================================================ > > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > > ================================================ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commander-List Digest Archive > > > --- > > > Total Messages Posted Thu > > > 06/23/05: 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget > > > Watson) > > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52@cs.com) > > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis > > > Polito) > > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk@earthlink.net) > > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE > > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER) > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Time: 06:09:33 AM PST US > > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" > > > > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Andrew & > > > Bridget Watson" > > > > > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I > > > thought he was a big > > > @#!&! > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Andrew. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "nico css" > > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > > > > > > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA > > > along the same lines > > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang > > > out for many years, > > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the > > > Waterkloof air force base > > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and > > > over the city of Pretoria. > > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over > > > the city because of > > > > military activities there. > > > > > > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air > > > traffic controller, Dirk > > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would > > > interfere and lecture > > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and > > > over the radio. It was a > > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and > > > ask him questions just > > > > to see him light up and part with his superior > > > intellect and knowledge, > > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to > > > the airport were > > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane > > > and frivolous > > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy. > > > > > > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the > > > tower while he was > > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots, > > > workers, and everyone who > > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and > > > antics of which depended upon > > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford > > > him the most bragging > > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing > > > instructions and the pilot > > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city > > > of Pretoria.' Apparently > > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he > > > couldn't believe his luck that > > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd > > > observing him in action. > > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior > > > height about the restricted > > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of > > > other violations which Dirk > > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the > > > hapless pilot for this > > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce > > > was when he instructed the > > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after > > > landing. The real torture > > > > was about to occur when the pilo! > > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person. > > > > > > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While > > > silence fell on everyone > > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot > > > stumble and apologize, the > > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am > > > the officer commanding > > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will > > > fly whenever and where > > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my > > > position but to provide > > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand > > > that simple instruction or > > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when > > > I get there?" > > > > > > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it > > > was long overdue, but > > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the > > > guy for a moment or so > > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time > > > afterwards. I just did it > > > > again. > > > > > > > > Nico > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio > > > conversation between a > > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the > > > coast of Newfoundland > > > > in October 1995. > > > > > > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees > > > North to avoid a > > > > collision. > > > > > > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 > > > degrees South to avoid > > > > collision. > > > > > > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; > > > I say again divert your > > > > course. > > > > > > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR > > > course. > > > > > > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS > > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST > > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE > > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE > > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT > > > VESSELS. > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > 6/24/2005 > > > > > > -- > > > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:26 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" Dangit, this list omits some of the characters I send; should have looked like this: ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 > --> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" > > Alan, > > That's exactly what I learned in my Commander-specific training, where they > made me do numerous W AND B CALCULATIONS. WHAT I LEARNED WAS THAT the *only* way you can be out of CG in > a Commander is if you have nearly empty tanks and a REALLY BIG guy in the > copilot seat. I'm with you, on the pre-landing checklist. > > My airplane used to fly cargo and still has some of those interior > peculiarities....so if I needed to, I could stuff that fat guy through the > aft bulkhead into the baggage hold. Wouldn't be pretty though. > > /John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Kucheck" > To: > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" > > > > > Dan: > > > > Somehow the W&B stuff was missing from my 500A when I acquired it. TCAC > was > > happy to send [for a hefty fee!] copies of the original "Work Release > > Order" showing all factory installed quipment and their weights and > moments. > > Cool data. Or course, the plane has changed a lot in the interim. ;>) > > > > Regarding pax weight: I see no reason why this this would not be a linear > > thing: as far as I'm concerned, if you have a really wide guy in the right > > seat weighing in at 340, his moment would be 32. The the fuel and baggage > > tables [my page 4 of 4] confirm that, to my way of thinking. > > > > Oil: my page 3 0f 4 shows oil [6.0 gal] at 45#, Arm = +146 > > Moment/1000=6.57. It *is* included in my EW. > > > > The other thing that became clear to me when doing some exercises with the > > numbers for my plane: it seems the *only* way I can be out of CG is if I > > have another guy my size [about 220] up front and we fly the thing down to > > about 15 gallons. Then I'm out of CG forward. I don't expect to ever > have > > only 15 gallons in the tanks, but if somehow I do and I have a big guy > next > > to me, I'm sending him to the back a part my my pre-landing checklist. ;>) > > > > Alan > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > > > Of Dan Farmer > > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:16 PM > > > To: commander-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer > > > --> > > > > > > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for information > > > on wt and balance. I also believe I have an ignorance on > > > this subject when it comes to commanders. In the wt and > > > balance section of my 500B approved flight manual page 2 it > > > states "Passenger weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per > > > person". I have read that statement before and always > > > thought it was used for example purposes only, however upon > > > further examination I believe it is meant to be true. > > > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4 of > > > weights and moments there is only moments for passengers > > > weighing 170# each. There is a moment table for various fuel > > > and baggage loads but none for passengers. It does not > > > mention extrapolating for various weights. That only leaves > > > an assumption of direct correlation between weight and moment > > > of the passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about > > > assumeing. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack of a > > > moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty weight of > > > the airplane. > > > > > > Could someone with knowledge in this area please splain all > > > this to me. > > > dan farmer > > > 6369U > > > > > > --- Commander-List Digest Server > > > wrote: > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > ================================================== > > > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > ================================================== > > > > > > > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be found in > > > either of > > > > the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest > > > > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features > > > > Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes > > > > the plain ASCII version of the Commander-List Digest and > > > can be viewed > > > > with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande > > > r-List.2005-06-23.html > > > > > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commande > > > r-List.2005-06-23.txt > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================================ > > > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > > > ================================================ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Commander-List Digest Archive > > > > --- > > > > Total Messages Posted Thu > > > > 06/23/05: 5 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget > > > > Watson) > > > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52@cs.com) > > > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis > > > > Polito) > > > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED > > > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk@earthlink.net) > > > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE > > > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 06:09:33 AM PST US > > > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Andrew & > > > > Bridget Watson" > > > > > > > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I > > > > thought he was a big > > > > @#!&! > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > Andrew. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "nico css" > > > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious > > > > > > > > > > > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA > > > > along the same lines > > > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang > > > > out for many years, > > > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the > > > > Waterkloof air force base > > > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and > > > > over the city of Pretoria. > > > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over > > > > the city because of > > > > > military activities there. > > > > > > > > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air > > > > traffic controller, Dirk > > > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would > > > > interfere and lecture > > > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and > > > > over the radio. It was a > > > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and > > > > ask him questions just > > > > > to see him light up and part with his superior > > > > intellect and knowledge, > > > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to > > > > the airport were > > > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane > > > > and frivolous > > > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy. > > > > > > > > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the > > > > tower while he was > > > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots, > > > > workers, and everyone who > > > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and > > > > antics of which depended upon > > > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford > > > > him the most bragging > > > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing > > > > instructions and the pilot > > > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city > > > > of Pretoria.' Apparently > > > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he > > > > couldn't believe his luck that > > > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd > > > > observing him in action. > > > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior > > > > height about the restricted > > > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of > > > > other violations which Dirk > > > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the > > > > hapless pilot for this > > > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce > > > > was when he instructed the > > > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after > > > > landing. The real torture > > > > > was about to occur when the pilo! > > > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person. > > > > > > > > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While > > > > silence fell on everyone > > > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot > > > > stumble and apologize, the > > > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am > > > > the officer commanding > > > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will > > > > fly whenever and where > > > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my > > > > position but to provide > > > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand > > > > that simple instruction or > > > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when > > > > I get there?" > > > > > > > > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it > > > > was long overdue, but > > > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the > > > > guy for a moment or so > > > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time > > > > afterwards. I just did it > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > Nico > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio > > > > conversation between a > > > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the > > > > coast of Newfoundland > > > > > in October 1995. > > > > > > > > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees > > > > North to avoid a > > > > > collision. > > > > > > > > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15 > > > > degrees South to avoid > > > > > collision. > > > > > > > > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship; > > > > I say again divert your > > > > > course. > > > > > > > > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR > > > > course. > > > > > > > > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS > > > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST > > > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE > > > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE > > > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT > > > > VESSELS. > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > 6/24/2005 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.nod32.com > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________ > > > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > > http://www.nod32.com > > > > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > > > __________ NOD32 1.1153 (20050624) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > >