Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 (Barry Collman)
2. 07:20 AM - Re: First Angel Flight today (Randy Dettmer, AIA)
3. 08:42 AM - Re: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 (Tom Fisher)
4. 08:54 AM - Re: First Angel Flight today (tylor.hall)
5. 08:56 AM - Re: First Angel Flight today (YOURTCFG@aol.com)
6. 02:03 PM - Re: First Angel Flight today (MASON Chevaillier)
7. 04:37 PM - What is this? (nico css)
8. 05:25 PM - Re: What is this? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
9. 07:41 PM - Re: What is this? (RRamm52@cs.com)
10. 07:43 PM - Re: What is this? (RRamm52@cs.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Guys,
I watched a TV program over here a month or two ago regarding the accident to
the Beech 1900D in Charlotte, which occurred on January 8th 2003.
One of the causes was "(5) the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) average
weight assumptions in its weight and balance program guidance at the time of the
accident."
If I recall correctly, 170lb. was the weight allowance for each passenger and
this figure hadn't changed in years. This contributed to the aircraft having an
aft cg., with the plane taking off with all 19 passenger seats full and each
passenger having a lot of baggage.
There was talk of the '170lb' figure being scrapped and airlines were to use
200lb. instead.
I think of myself as being pretty much average. 6ft 1 inch tall, weighing just
over 14 stone. With 14 pounds to a stone, that puts me at 200lb., without any
carry-on baggage. Time to think again, FAA?
Best Regards,
Barry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
| --> Commander-List message posted by: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod@earthlink.net>
|
| Dan;
|
| The airlines all use the same weights, (170 lbs) however I think it is plus
| 10 lbs. in the winter. A real joke as this includes carry on baggage.
| However if you want to figure it and figure it correctly, it's like Rob
| says, just multiply the actual weight times the arm to get the moment
| (position from the data line, which is usually out in front of the nose of
| the aircraft, if it's not in front of the nose, you can get negative
| figures which you just subtract), (wt. in lbs. x arm in inches equals
| moment) take this figure and add them all together. You should only need
| to figure passenger weight and moment, fuel, weight and moment and cargo or
| baggage weight and moment, the rest should be figured in the chart for your
| aircraft, and compare it to the chart. You just need to be within the
| forward and rear CG limits then you only have to be concerned with
| Max.gross weights. Been a few years since I had to figure all this by hand
| but as I recall this is correct. The airlines are then allowed to subtract
| half the adult weight for children if weight becomes a problem for field
| conditions or second segment climb. These figures are used in case of an
| engine failure at the critical point of flight.
|
| Hope this helps and doesn't just confuse you. If so I will try again.
|
| Don
|
|
| > [Original Message]
| > From: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
| > To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
| > Date: 6/25/2005 8:16:22 PM
| > Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
| >
| > --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer <daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
| >
| > I admit that I feel a little stupid in asking for
| > information on wt and balance. I also believe I have
| > an ignorance on this subject when it comes to
| > commanders. In the wt and balance section of my 500B
| > approved flight manual page 2 it states "Passenger
| > weight is always figured at 170 lbs. per person". I
| > have read that statement before and always thought it
| > was used for example purposes only, however upon
| > further examination I believe it is meant to be true.
| > What brings me to that belief is that on sheet 4 of 4
| > of weights and moments there is only moments for
| > passengers weighing 170# each. There is a moment
| > table for various fuel and baggage loads but none for
| > passengers. It does not mention extrapolating for
| > various weights. That only leaves an assumption of
| > direct correlation between weight and moment of the
| > passengers. I suppose we all know what they say about
| > assuming. Also there is no mention of oil and a lack
| > of a moment table for oil but oil is not in the empty
| > weight of the airplane.
| >
| > Could someone with knowledge in this area please
| > splain all this to me.
| > dan farmer
| > 6369U
| >
| > --- Commander-List Digest Server
| > <commander-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
| >
| > > *
| > >
| > > ==================================================
| > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
| > > ==================================================
| > >
| > > Today's complete Commander-List Digest can also be
| > > found in either of the
| > > two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
| > > the Digest formatted
| > > in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
| > > Hyperlinked Indexes
| > > and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
| > > plain ASCII version
| > > of the Commander-List Digest and can be viewed with
| > > a generic text editor
| > > such as Notepad or with a web browser.
| > >
| > > HTML Version:
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
| -23.html
| > >
| > > Text Version:
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
| -23.txt
| > >
| > >
| > > ================================================
| > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
| > > ================================================
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Commander-List Digest
| > > Archive
| > > ---
| > > Total Messages Posted Thu
| > > 06/23/05: 5
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > Today's Message Index:
| > > ----------------------
| > >
| > > 1. 06:09 AM - Re: Hilarious (Andrew & Bridget
| > > Watson)
| > > 2. 08:29 AM - Re: Hilarious (RRamm52@cs.com)
| > > 3. 08:41 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
| > > replacements for #327 bulbs (Part Deux) (Dennis
| > > Polito)
| > > 4. 10:08 AM - Re: Long-life white LED
| > > replacements for #327 bulbs (swperk@earthlink.net)
| > > 5. 11:46 AM - Fw: Fw: FW: THIS NEEDS TO BE
| > > DISTRIBUTED TO MANY (MASON CHEVAILLIER)
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > > ________________________________ Message 1
| > > _____________________________________
| > >
| > >
| > > Time: 06:09:33 AM PST US
| > > From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson"
| > > <andrew.bridget@telus.net>
| > > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Hilarious
| > >
| > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "Andrew &
| > > Bridget Watson" <andrew.bridget@telus.net>
| > >
| > > Yeah, I remember Mnr Munnik's sarcastic comments. I
| > > thought he was a big
| > > @#!&!
| > >
| > > :-)
| > >
| > > Andrew.
| > >
| > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > From: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
| > > Subject: Commander-List: Hilarious
| > >
| > >
| > > > --> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css"
| > > > <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
| > > >
| > > > That's so funny. We had a real-life incident in SA
| > > along the same lines
| > > > many years ago. The airport where I used to hang
| > > out for many years,
| > > > Wonderboom, was located directly north of the
| > > Waterkloof air force base
| > > > whose terminal area was south of Wonderboom and
| > > over the city of Pretoria.
| > > > Civilian aircraft was rarely allowed to fly over
| > > the city because of
| > > > military activities there.
| > > >
| > > > For a number of years we had a very obnoxious air
| > > traffic controller, Dirk
| > > > Munnik, in the tower at Wonderboom and he would
| > > interfere and lecture
| > > > everybody about everything, both in the tower and
| > > over the radio. It was a
| > > > favorite pastime for pilots to walk in on Dirk and
| > > ask him questions just
| > > > to see him light up and part with his superior
| > > intellect and knowledge,
| > > > much to the amusement of everyone. Newcomers to
| > > the airport were
| > > > oftentimes referred to Dirk for the most mundane
| > > and frivolous
| > > > information, just to introduce them to this guy.
| > > >
| > > > So, one day there were a number of people in the
| > > tower while he was
| > > > showing off correcting and reprimanding pilots,
| > > workers, and everyone who
| > > > was within earshot, the severity, volume and
| > > antics of which depended upon
| > > > who was with him in the tower and who would afford
| > > him the most bragging
| > > > rights. A Cessna 310 called in for landing
| > > instructions and the pilot
| > > > smartly announced his position as 'over the city
| > > of Pretoria.' Apparently
| > > > Dirk's audience was the right fit, as if he
| > > couldn't believe his luck that
| > > > such a call would come while he has a home crowd
| > > observing him in action.
| > > > He started lecturing the pilot from a superior
| > > height about the restricted
| > > > area that he happens to be in, and a myriad of
| > > other violations which Dirk
| > > > now has the power to either report or forgive the
| > > hapless pilot for this
| > > > terrible transgression. Dirk's coupe de gr=E2ce
| > > was when he instructed the
| > > > Cessna pilot to report to him in the tower after
| > > landing. The real torture
| > > > was about to occur when the pilo!
| > > > t has to suffer Dirk's ire in person.
| > > >
| > > > It was, however, not Dirk's day that day. While
| > > silence fell on everyone
| > > > in anticipation waiting to hear the poor pilot
| > > stumble and apologize, the
| > > > response came: "This is general so-and-so and I am
| > > the officer commanding
| > > > northern command. I own this airspace and I will
| > > fly whenever and where
| > > > ever I please. I didn't ask you to comment on my
| > > position but to provide
| > > > me with landing instructions. Do you understand
| > > that simple instruction or
| > > > do you want me to explain it to you in person when
| > > I get there?"
| > > >
| > > > Dirk needed to be brought down a peg or two and it
| > > was long overdue, but
| > > > the humiliation was brutal. We felt sorry for the
| > > guy for a moment or so
| > > > and chuckled over the incident for a long time
| > > afterwards. I just did it
| > > > again.
| > > >
| > > > Nico
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > ----- Original Message -----
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > This is the alleged transcript of an actual radio
| > > conversation between a
| > > > US naval ship and Canadian maritime contact of the
| > > coast of Newfoundland
| > > > in October 1995.
| > > >
| > > > Americans: Please divert your course 15 degrees
| > > North to avoid a
| > > > collision.
| > > >
| > > > Canadians: Recommend you divert YOUR course 15
| > > degrees South to avoid
| > > > collision.
| > > >
| > > > Americans: This is the captain of a US navy ship;
| > > I say again divert your
| > > > course.
| > > >
| > > > Canadians: No. I say again, you divert YOUR
| > > course.
| > > >
| > > > Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS
| > > LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST
| > > > SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET WE ARE
| > > ACCOMPANIED BY THREE
| > > > DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT
| > > VESSELS.
| > === message truncated ===
| >
| >
| > --
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Message 2
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| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" <rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hi Alan,
I too am a member of Angel Flight. I joined shortly after 9/11, when I
learned that some of the only planes flying after that tragedy were Angel
Flights moving essential people, medicines, etc. I feel that it's my way to
contribute to the community and country. My thought was to try to work the
AF flights into my business, as I fly frequently to jobsites around the
western states. However, I have found that didn't really work out, so my
Angel Flights are whenever I can work them into my schedule (and budget...as
my 680F has a pretty high fuel burn.) My daughter and I recently flew
three burn survivors down from Sacramento to Fresno to attend summer
camp...it was a great experience. I am glad to know that another Commander
owner is in the group.
Randy Dettmer
580F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
Kucheck
Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck@hotmail.com>
I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical issues
and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule myself
for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks ago
but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He asked
my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were
about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
firefighting that is going on there now.
It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight - my
first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise
have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
Alan
--
Message 3
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|
| Subject: | Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05 |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Tom Fisher" <tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
I do not ever use arbitrary weights set by someone not in my aircraft.
I carry a set of bathroom scales and make everyone weigh themselves.
For some of the sensitive ones of the opposite gender I make them hold their
bag as the are weighed therefore I will not know "her" weight.
Tom F.
C-GISS 680FLP (Mr.RPM)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Collman" <barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
> --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I watched a TV program over here a month or two ago regarding the accident
to
> the Beech 1900D in Charlotte, which occurred on January 8th 2003.
>
> One of the causes was "(5) the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA)
average
> weight assumptions in its weight and balance program guidance at the time
of the
> accident."
>
> If I recall correctly, 170lb. was the weight allowance for each passenger
and
> this figure hadn't changed in years. This contributed to the aircraft
having an
> aft cg., with the plane taking off with all 19 passenger seats full and
each
> passenger having a lot of baggage.
>
> There was talk of the '170lb' figure being scrapped and airlines were to
use
> 200lb. instead.
>
> I think of myself as being pretty much average. 6ft 1 inch tall, weighing
just
> over 14 stone. With 14 pounds to a stone, that puts me at 200lb., without
any
> carry-on baggage. Time to think again, FAA?
>
> Best Regards,
> Barry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Girod" <dongirod@earthlink.net>
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Commander-List: Re: Commander-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 06/23/05
>
>
<dongirod@earthlink.net>
plus
of
need
or
your
hand
subtract
an
<daniellfarmer@yahoo.com>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list/Digest.Commander-List.2005-06
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
I want to thank all those who do Angle Flights. My brother has been taken
to Cancer treatment several times. He has flown in a 172, Seneca, Lance,
and other aircraft. He goes from Long Island to Pittsburg. It makes it a
lot easier on him. Everyone has been very helpful.
Tylor Hall
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
<rcdettmer@charter.net>
Hi Alan,
I too am a member of Angel Flight. I joined shortly after 9/11, when I
learned that some of the only planes flying after that tragedy were Angel
Flights moving essential people, medicines, etc. I feel that it's my way to
contribute to the community and country. My thought was to try to work the
AF flights into my business, as I fly frequently to jobsites around the
western states. However, I have found that didn't really work out, so my
Angel Flights are whenever I can work them into my schedule (and budget...as
my 680F has a pretty high fuel burn.) My daughter and I recently flew
three burn survivors down from Sacramento to Fresno to attend summer
camp...it was a great experience. I am glad to know that another Commander
owner is in the group.
Randy Dettmer
580F/N6253X
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
Kucheck
Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck@hotmail.com>
I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical issues
and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule myself
for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks ago
but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He asked
my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were
about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
firefighting that is going on there now.
It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight - my
first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise
have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
Alan
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: First Angel Flight today |
--> Commander-List message posted by: YOURTCFG@aol.com
In a message dated 6/25/2005 7:10:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
akucheck@hotmail.com writes:
And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might otherwise
have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
Great story Alan!! Thanks jb
Message 6
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| Subject: | First Angel Flight today |
--> Commander-List message posted by: "MASON Chevaillier" <kamala@msn.com>
i also do angel flights and homeland security units coordinated by angel
flight. mason 2001m
>From: "tylor.hall" <tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: commander-list@matronics.com
>To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
>Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:54:11 -0600
>
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "tylor.hall"
><tylor.hall@sbcglobal.net>
>
>I want to thank all those who do Angle Flights. My brother has been taken
>to Cancer treatment several times. He has flown in a 172, Seneca, Lance,
>and other aircraft. He goes from Long Island to Pittsburg. It makes it a
>lot easier on him. Everyone has been very helpful.
>
>Tylor Hall
>
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Randy Dettmer, AIA"
><rcdettmer@charter.net>
>
>Hi Alan,
>I too am a member of Angel Flight. I joined shortly after 9/11, when I
>learned that some of the only planes flying after that tragedy were Angel
>Flights moving essential people, medicines, etc. I feel that it's my way
>to
>contribute to the community and country. My thought was to try to work the
>AF flights into my business, as I fly frequently to jobsites around the
>western states. However, I have found that didn't really work out, so my
>Angel Flights are whenever I can work them into my schedule (and
>budget...as
>my 680F has a pretty high fuel burn.) My daughter and I recently flew
>three burn survivors down from Sacramento to Fresno to attend summer
>camp...it was a great experience. I am glad to know that another Commander
>owner is in the group.
>
>Randy Dettmer
>580F/N6253X
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan
>Kucheck
>To: commander-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Commander-List: First Angel Flight today
>
>
>--> Commander-List message posted by: "Alan Kucheck" <akucheck@hotmail.com>
>
>I have been a member of Angel Flight since last August but mechanical
>issues
>and work schedules have conspired and I had not been able to schedule
>myself
>for a mission until recently. I had one scheduled for a couple of weeks
>ago
>but that patient was doing so well he cancelled the trip!
>
>Anyway, today I flew the 2nd leg of a 2 leg relay to take a patient from
>Salt Lake to Camarillo. The pilot for leg 1, who flies a Seneca, and I
>coordinated the meeting at North Las Vegas [VGT] for the transfer. He
>asked
>my what type aircraft I would be flying and when a told him it was an Aero
>Commander his response was, "How cool is THAT!" Agreed. At VGT there were
>about 4 other Commanders that were apparently involved as spotters for the
>firefighting that is going on there now.
>
>It was a great day to fly and this was a kind of "double rookie" flight -
>my
>first AF mission and the patient's first time in small planes. She was a
>great, at ease passenger. I had a great time. Nice way to spend a few
>hours. And what I great plane the Commander is for folks who might
>otherwise
>have difficulty getting in and out of airplanes.
>
>Alan
>
>
>--
>
>
Message 7
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--> Commander-List message posted by: "nico css" <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
what is happening.
I cannot offer you a prize, except to let everyone know you have a keen
sense of observation. There are certain things that no one except I would
know, but see how close you can get.
http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0064_IMG.JPG
Thanks
Nico
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: What is this? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
Good Evening Nico,
Looks like runway end and side lighting along with an older style VASI seen
through a bit of turbulence or taken by a camera using too long an exposure.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
In a message dated 6/26/2005 6:38:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:
Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
what is happening.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: What is this? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
Christmas tree on the back of a Harley...
Rob
In a message dated 6/26/2005 6:40:06 PM Central Standard Time,
nico@cybersuperstore.com writes:
>
> Folks, take a look at this picture and see if you can tell what it is and
> what is happening.
>
> I cannot offer you a prize, except to let everyone know you have a keen
> sense of observation. There are certain things that no one except I would
> know, but see how close you can get.
>
> http://www.teletuition.org/documents/competition/100-0064_IMG.JPG
>
> Thanks
> Nico
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: What is this? |
--> Commander-List message posted by: RRamm52@cs.com
I think you're a lot closer than I am, Bob!
Rob
In a message dated 6/26/2005 7:27:37 PM Central Standard Time,
BobsV35B@aol.com writes:
>
> Good Evening Nico,
>
> Looks like runway end and side lighting along with an older style VASI seen
>
> through a bit of turbulence or taken by a camera using too long an
> exposure.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
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